Lillabelle getting spayed

[twistedtiggerz69]

I am glad to hear L is recovering well and I think it is normal for the wound to look red at this stage. It will lessen as each day goes by. Keep an eye on it though. You can only do so much in order to get the weight off a Rabbit as obviously you still have to feed them. I know it isn't easy.

Thank you. Yes we held back on treats today and it is lovely to see them both eating their dried herbs side by side

We will persevere until they both lose their big bellies. Then they will be sleeker and healthier and up to even more trouble

 

[InspectorMorse]

With regards to their diet and the weight loss needed :

The fact that despite being young L has already been found to have fatty deposits around internal organs is indicative of her being overweight, even if she is not as heavy as MC.

It will be important for weight loss to be gradual, not sudden. This especially applies when the liver is already ‘fatty’

‘’Obese rabbits are at risk of fatty liver disease so gradual weight loss is essential’’

Full article here:

Body Condition Score

Click here to learn about Rabbit Body Condition Scores. Explore their importance, how to calculate them, and necessary after steps.

rabbitwelfare.co.uk

As Omi said, it is best to cut out all treats. The Fibrefirst stick can be fed INSTEAD of other pellets, not as well as. The stick can be broken and hand fed at different times so it will seem as though they are getting a treat on more than one occasion. But in fact they will be taking in less calories overall

Rabbits should be eating hay whenever they are awake. A Rabbit is not going to starve if they have 24/7 access to a variety of good quality hays and fresh water. Hay should be at least 80%-90% of their diet. Commercial feeds, if fed at all, should be a bare minimum. I hand feed about 8 pellets throughout the day. Sometimes less. I never feed any form of commercial treat, even home made ones. I make what is their essential diet a treat seem like a treat to them by hand feeding it. So for example as well as the tiny amount of pellets I will hand feed a sprig of coriander from their normal daily ration. Not an additional amount.

I have limited access to fresh forage, but I do grow giant dandelions from seed. The leaves make great treats. I also cut some fresh grass. Fresh hawthorn is a possibility at the moment too. Although my Rabbits prefer it dry.

I feed two average sized mugsful of a mix of various dried forage including plantain, dandelion leaves, sunflower leaves and stalks, mallow leaves, pear and apple leaves, raspberry,blackcurrant and blackberry leaves, spearmint, peppermint, strawberry leaves and stalks, norfolk nettle, echinacea leaves, flowers and stems, mulberry leaves, Birch leaves, Dill stalks, coriander stalks, rose flowers/petals, chamomile flowers.

Insuring a good water intake is important. As my Rabbits much prefer dried forages to fresh ones or fresh vegs/herbs it is especially important that they have a good water intake to avoid them developing problems with bladder sludge.

There is now such a good variety of natural healthy options which can form the final 10%-20% of the diet without feeding commercial treats which are really the equivalent of sweets for us. Of course the commercial treats will be extra tasty, it’s in the manufacturers interests to insure that they are. But they are not healthy options and a Bunny who doesn’t have them isn’t going to miss them. If they were fed them then there might be an initial protest when they are withheld. But by offering healthy alternatives and not giving in to demands for ‘sweeties’ they will eventually give up the protest.

We just need to be ‘cruel’ to be kind

 

[Omi]

I think this has to be managed in a rigorous way. What I mean is I would discuss this properly with the vet on Monday for both rabbits. I presume this is the same vet as did the spay and so he will remember the issue of the fat deposits inside Lillabelle. Discuss this with him and also establish each rabbits' weight on Monday and write it down. Ask him to advise what weight, in his opinion, each rabbit should aim for. I would tell him that you are going to try to get both rabbits down to that healthy weight and that you will weigh them regularly to check how that is progressing and adjust their food accordingly. Personally I would not discuss with him what foods and what quantities to feed, as I would feel confident that I could work that out myself. I also think that the type of foods fed to rabbits, much like to humans actually, is a bit controversial and personal. But also I doubt that the vet will have much expertise in that issue unless they own rabbits themselves and have researched it.

I think you also should take into account the other important side of the equation regarding diet and that is exercise. My rabbits' accommodation was built with exercise in mind and so they have long runs to get from place to place and they do run a lot. Several years ago I worked out their calorific intake when we were trying to work out the pellet/hay balance. I'm afraid I can't remember the details now and can't find the document I created, but I do remember my surprise when I found out that Fibafirst contains slightly more calories per stick than each rabbit's total daily pellet ration. That said, nutritionally, Fibafirst is the slightly healthier option. Breaking it up into smaller pieces is a good idea as Jane said.

I do not think that dried or fresh forage are high in calories, although of course they will mount up during the day. I would say the most important thing you can do is to cut out their treats completely. As you were giving them in the evening, they would be probably too full to consume a lot of hay during the night. We have a camera set up in the rabbits' shed and watching them during the night, they do eat a lot and sleep less than during the morning. One thing I would introduce if I were you would be tree sticks to chew. Jane has suggested Hawthorn, which is particularly lush at the moment. Always obtainable online though as well would be apple or willow sticks. These would also provide enrichment for them. They're like a treat which keeps on giving if you like

So, get them accurately weighed and find out what they should be. Work gradually towards that by cutting out treats and adjusting other foods depending on what results you achieve without treats. I would write everything down ie their weight, what they should be, plus what they get each day.

Good luck!

 

[bunny momma]

It is good to read Lillabelle is progressing as expected after her spay.

I hope you can find a way to address their weight and find a substitute to treats when they hound you on the bed.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

M

With regards to their diet and the weight loss needed :

The fact that despite being young L has already been found to have fatty deposits around internal organs is indicative of her being overweight, even if she is not as heavy as MC.

It will be important for weight loss to be gradual, not sudden. This especially applies when the liver is already ‘fatty’

‘’Obese rabbits are at risk of fatty liver disease so gradual weight loss is essential’’

Full article here:

Body Condition Score

Click here to learn about Rabbit Body Condition Scores. Explore their importance, how to calculate them, and necessary after steps.

rabbitwelfare.co.uk

As Omi said, it is best to cut out all treats. The Fibrefirst stick can be fed INSTEAD of other pellets, not as well as. The stick can be broken and hand fed at different times so it will seem as though they are getting a treat on more than one occasion. But in fact they will be taking in less calories overall

Rabbits should be eating hay whenever they are awake. A Rabbit is not going to starve if they have 24/7 access to a variety of good quality hays and fresh water. Hay should be at least 80%-90% of their diet. Commercial feeds, if fed at all, should be a bare minimum. I hand feed about 8 pellets throughout the day. Sometimes less. I never feed any form of commercial treat, even home made ones. I make what is their essential diet a treat seem like a treat to them by hand feeding it. So for example as well as the tiny amount of pellets I will hand feed a sprig of coriander from their normal daily ration. Not an additional amount.

I have limited access to fresh forage, but I do grow giant dandelions from seed. The leaves make great treats. I also cut some fresh grass. Fresh hawthorn is a possibility at the moment too. Although my Rabbits prefer it dry.

I feed two average sized mugsful of a mix of various dried forage including plantain, dandelion leaves, sunflower leaves and stalks, mallow leaves, pear and apple leaves, raspberry,blackcurrant and blackberry leaves, spearmint, peppermint, strawberry leaves and stalks, norfolk nettle, echinacea leaves, flowers and stems, mulberry leaves, Birch leaves, Dill stalks, coriander stalks, rose flowers/petals, chamomile flowers.

Insuring a good water intake is important. As my Rabbits much prefer dried forages to fresh ones or fresh vegs/herbs it is especially important that they have a good water intake to avoid them developing problems with bladder sludge.

There is now such a good variety of natural healthy options which can form the final 10%-20% of the diet without feeding commercial treats which are really the equivalent of sweets for us. Of course the commercial treats will be extra tasty, it’s in the manufacturers interests to insure that they are. But they are not healthy options and a Bunny who doesn’t have them isn’t going to miss them. If they were fed them then there might be an initial protest when they are withheld. But by offering healthy alternatives and not giving in to demands for ‘sweeties’ they will eventually give up the protest.

We just need to be ‘cruel’ to be kind

There is so much information there to read and reply to so I will do it in stages . Thank you though as it is very educational to me and I obviously needed educating if I still feed them too much as such and not the right foods.

I am worried that Lillabelle has fat around her organs still. As I am looking at them both sleeping in the often used sleeping position with both feet on the floorand them looking slightly hunched up I can see they are not as streamlined as they could be. And both of them have a dewlap. I realise that Lillabelle has a large dewlap for her age (and is often contributed to a late spay aswell as read in another post) you can see she is rounded still. I do not think Lillabelle needs to lose too much as the vet said she needs to lose a little more.

From the palpation of their ribs this week I realise her ribs do not feel like 'a pocket full of pens' yet and when she is lying, as I said earlier in usual sleep position, I could actually feel quite a big belly still. Mischief on the other hand is obviously obese if he has a chest that rolls over like a dewlap when he is again in that sleep position. And he has a big belly.

I did realise that I have to be careful as they must lose weight slowly due to causing fatty liver disease. I myself have that now so I understand how serious that would be as can cause other health issues as well.

CONTINUED IN POST BELOW

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

sorry could somebody delete this post for me please. I made a mistake doing it twice. Thank you

With regards to their diet and the weight loss needed :

The fact that despite being young L has already been found to have fatty deposits around internal organs is indicative of her being overweight, even if she is not as heavy as MC.

It will be important for weight loss to be gradual, not sudden. This especially applies when the liver is already ‘fatty’

‘’Obese rabbits are at risk of fatty liver disease so gradual weight loss is essential’’

Full article here:

Body Condition Score

Click here to learn about Rabbit Body Condition Scores. Explore their importance, how to calculate them, and necessary after steps.

rabbitwelfare.co.uk

As Omi said, it is best to cut out all treats. The Fibrefirst stick can be fed INSTEAD of other pellets, not as well as. The stick can be broken and hand fed at different times so it will seem as though they are getting a treat on more than one occasion. But in fact they will be taking in less calories overall

Rabbits should be eating hay whenever they are awake. A Rabbit is not going to starve if they have 24/7 access to a variety of good quality hays and fresh water. Hay should be at least 80%-90% of their diet. Commercial feeds, if fed at all, should be a bare minimum. I hand feed about 8 pellets throughout the day. Sometimes less. I never feed any form of commercial treat, even home made ones. I make what is their essential diet a treat seem like a treat to them by hand feeding it. So for example as well as the tiny amount of pellets I will hand feed a sprig of coriander from their normal daily ration. Not an additional amount.

I have limited access to fresh forage, but I do grow giant dandelions from seed. The leaves make great treats. I also cut some fresh grass. Fresh hawthorn is a possibility at the moment too. Although my Rabbits prefer it dry.

I feed two average sized mugsful of a mix of various dried forage including plantain, dandelion leaves, sunflower leaves and stalks, mallow leaves, pear and apple leaves, raspberry,blackcurrant and blackberry leaves, spearmint, peppermint, strawberry leaves and stalks, norfolk nettle, echinacea leaves, flowers and stems, mulberry leaves, Birch leaves, Dill stalks, coriander stalks, rose flowers/petals, chamomile flowers.

Insuring a good water intake is important. As my Rabbits much prefer dried forages to fresh ones or fresh vegs/herbs it is especially important that they have a good water intake to avoid them developing problems with bladder sludge.

There is now such a good variety of natural healthy options which can form the final 10%-20% of the diet without feeding commercial treats which are really the equivalent of sweets for us. Of course the commercial treats will be extra tasty, it’s in the manufacturers interests to insure that they are. But they are not healthy options and a Bunny who doesn’t have them isn’t going to miss them. If they were fed them then there might be an initial protest when they are withheld. But by offering healthy alternatives and not giving in to demands for ‘sweeties’ they will eventually give up the protest.

We just need to be ‘cruel’ to be kind

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I have to finish this later. Mu daughter is in hospital in A and E and we need to have my grandson who is 9 and thankfully lovely and quiet always playing PS4 low volumn in next room so won't affect buns.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Just quickly...is it ok for hay to be near her wound as she has just sploofed right under the hay net!
Do we need to move her please? Thanks

 

[Omi]

Just quickly...is it ok for hay to be near her wound as she has just sploofed right under the hay net!
Do we need to move her please? Thanks

I think she'll be OK and I wouldn't move her.

 

[bunny momma]

I am sorry you have fatty liver and hope any symptoms or dietary limitations are.minimal.

I would not move her from hay either since she is easily stressed.

Sending positive vibes for your daughter in A & E, and more for Lillabelle's appt.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I think she'll be OK and I wouldn't move her.

Thanks Omi

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I am sorry you have fatty liver and hope any symptoms or dietary limitations are.minimal.

I would not move her from hay either since she is easily stressed.

Sending positive vibes for your daughter in A & E, and more for Lillabelle's appt.

It's probably due to my meds as well although losing weight also helps. I'm a chocoholic plus love my sweets so it's very tough!
I left her as you say. She is very feisty atm
Thank you. She has a nasty lung infection and she was in alot of pain but she is home now with antibiotics. Thank you yes I will do a post on her check up tonight but thanks for the extra vibes x

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

With regards to their diet and the weight loss needed :

The fact that despite being young L has already been found to have fatty deposits around internal organs is indicative of her being overweight, even if she is not as heavy as MC.

It will be important for weight loss to be gradual, not sudden. This especially applies when the liver is already ‘fatty’

‘’Obese rabbits are at risk of fatty liver disease so gradual weight loss is essential’’

Full article here:

Body Condition Score

Click here to learn about Rabbit Body Condition Scores. Explore their importance, how to calculate them, and necessary after steps.

rabbitwelfare.co.uk

As Omi said, it is best to cut out all treats. The Fibrefirst stick can be fed INSTEAD of other pellets, not as well as. The stick can be broken and hand fed at different times so it will seem as though they are getting a treat on more than one occasion. But in fact they will be taking in less calories overall

Rabbits should be eating hay whenever they are awake. A Rabbit is not going to starve if they have 24/7 access to a variety of good quality hays and fresh water. Hay should be at least 80%-90% of their diet. Commercial feeds, if fed at all, should be a bare minimum. I hand feed about 8 pellets throughout the day. Sometimes less. I never feed any form of commercial treat, even home made ones. I make what is their essential diet a treat seem like a treat to them by hand feeding it. So for example as well as the tiny amount of pellets I will hand feed a sprig of coriander from their normal daily ration. Not an additional amount.

I have limited access to fresh forage, but I do grow giant dandelions from seed. The leaves make great treats. I also cut some fresh grass. Fresh hawthorn is a possibility at the moment too. Although my Rabbits prefer it dry.

I feed two average sized mugsful of a mix of various dried forage including plantain, dandelion leaves, sunflower leaves and stalks, mallow leaves, pear and apple leaves, raspberry,blackcurrant and blackberry leaves, spearmint, peppermint, strawberry leaves and stalks, norfolk nettle, echinacea leaves, flowers and stems, mulberry leaves, Birch leaves, Dill stalks, coriander stalks, rose flowers/petals, chamomile flowers.

Insuring a good water intake is important. As my Rabbits much prefer dried forages to fresh ones or fresh vegs/herbs it is especially important that they have a good water intake to avoid them developing problems with bladder sludge.

There is now such a good variety of natural healthy options which can form the final 10%-20% of the diet without feeding commercial treats which are really the equivalent of sweets for us. Of course the commercial treats will be extra tasty, it’s in the manufacturers interests to insure that they are. But they are not healthy options and a Bunny who doesn’t have them isn’t going to miss them. If they were fed them then there might be an initial protest when they are withheld. But by offering healthy alternatives and not giving in to demands for ‘sweeties’ they will eventually give up the protest.

We just need to be ‘cruel’ to be kind

CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

I think for now I should stop treats altogether. I could give a fibre first stick instead of pellets sometimes as they are healthy for them plus great for their teeth or course. However I think I need to practice giving them something out of their daily rations to start with and also as soon as we started giving them treats they got a bit mobbish. I would like to learn how to ask them to be gentle when I give them their treats and calm them down so it is not a frenzy every time!

Yes I do break the Fibre first sticks in two pieces. The only problem is Lilabelle turns her nose up at them so she has fruit loops and sometimes Mischief has them instead of the Fibre first.

Hay consumption is a big problem. Mischief eats hay through the day but not enough I don't think at all. At a guess probably 40-50% Lilabelle even less. The diet has been going pretty well overall. They have been losing weight slowly I feel. I think I will stick on a similar diet but be strict on the amounts and write their feeds down in a book as well as their weight and any notes on their health/diet which I haven't done very well. however their hay consumption needs work
on but if I gradually reduce one of their feeds at time and wait 2 weeks before change it again so can see any differences in weight and overall behaviour.

I do buy their weight dried herbs from Nature's Grub as you recommended . I have been giving them a handful of each of 4 bags I buy for the month. 2 bags of leaves (eg dandelion leaves and plantain) plus 2 other bags of mixed leaves, herbs and flowers. I am careful not to get those with alfafa or pea flakes as they are fattening. Is 4 large handfuls too much? I have a bowl I use to measure the herbs etc which exactly measures one handful.

As we live right by the sea there is very limited forage food here. There is a park so I could look out for branches on the ground I guess. There is a country walk along near fields but it is a bike ride away and I am not able to ride a bike or walk out far so limits us further. When I go out I will look out for branches etc though but I have to be careful dogs have not peed on it.

As far as treats go I agree that they need to be limited and not given as well as pellets. We will stop their treats and measure their feeds carefully. I will weigh them weekly and only reduce food more once I know that they don't lose weight to quickly.

I am going to put your post and Omi's in a file with other rabbit info so I can look at it and remind myself what I am aiming to do. Thank you so much for your help

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I think this has to be managed in a rigorous way. What I mean is I would discuss this properly with the vet on Monday for both rabbits. I presume this is the same vet as did the spay and so he will remember the issue of the fat deposits inside Lillabelle. Discuss this with him and also establish each rabbits' weight on Monday and write it down. Ask him to advise what weight, in his opinion, each rabbit should aim for. I would tell him that you are going to try to get both rabbits down to that healthy weight and that you will weigh them regularly to check how that is progressing and adjust their food accordingly. Personally I would not discuss with him what foods and what quantities to feed, as I would feel confident that I could work that out myself. I also think that the type of foods fed to rabbits, much like to humans actually, is a bit controversial and personal. But also I doubt that the vet will have much expertise in that issue unless they own rabbits themselves and have researched it.

I think you also should take into account the other important side of the equation regarding diet and that is exercise. My rabbits' accommodation was built with exercise in mind and so they have long runs to get from place to place and they do run a lot. Several years ago I worked out their calorific intake when we were trying to work out the pellet/hay balance. I'm afraid I can't remember the details now and can't find the document I created, but I do remember my surprise when I found out that Fibafirst contains slightly more calories per stick than each rabbit's total daily pellet ration. That said, nutritionally, Fibafirst is the slightly healthier option. Breaking it up into smaller pieces is a good idea as Jane said.

I do not think that dried or fresh forage are high in calories, although of course they will mount up during the day. I would say the most important thing you can do is to cut out their treats completely. As you were giving them in the evening, they would be probably too full to consume a lot of hay during the night. We have a camera set up in the rabbits' shed and watching them during the night, they do eat a lot and sleep less than during the morning. One thing I would introduce if I were you would be tree sticks to chew. Jane has suggested Hawthorn, which is particularly lush at the moment. Always obtainable online though as well would be apple or willow sticks. These would also provide enrichment for them. They're like a treat which keeps on giving if you like

So, get them accurately weighed and find out what they should be. Work gradually towards that by cutting out treats and adjusting other foods depending on what results you achieve without treats. I would write everything down ie their weight, what they should be, plus what they get each day.

Good luck!

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I think this has to be managed in a rigorous way. What I mean is I would discuss this properly with the vet on Monday for both rabbits. I presume this is the same vet as did the spay and so he will remember the issue of the fat deposits inside Lillabelle. Discuss this with him and also establish each rabbits' weight on Monday and write it down. Ask him to advise what weight, in his opinion, each rabbit should aim for. I would tell him that you are going to try to get both rabbits down to that healthy weight and that you will weigh them regularly to check how that is progressing and adjust their food accordingly. Personally I would not discuss with him what foods and what quantities to feed, as I would feel confident that I could work that out myself. I also think that the type of foods fed to rabbits, much like to humans actually, is a bit controversial and personal. But also I doubt that the vet will have much expertise in that issue unless they own rabbits themselves and have researched it.

I think you also should take into account the other important side of the equation regarding diet and that is exercise. My rabbits' accommodation was built with exercise in mind and so they have long runs to get from place to place and they do run a lot. Several years ago I worked out their calorific intake when we were trying to work out the pellet/hay balance. I'm afraid I can't remember the details now and can't find the document I created, but I do remember my surprise when I found out that Fibafirst contains slightly more calories per stick than each rabbit's total daily pellet ration. That said, nutritionally, Fibafirst is the slightly healthier option. Breaking it up into smaller pieces is a good idea as Jane said.

I do not think that dried or fresh forage are high in calories, although of course they will mount up during the day. I would say the most important thing you can do is to cut out their treats completely. As you were giving them in the evening, they would be probably too full to consume a lot of hay during the night. We have a camera set up in the rabbits' shed and watching them during the night, they do eat a lot and sleep less than during the morning. One thing I would introduce if I were you would be tree sticks to chew. Jane has suggested Hawthorn, which is particularly lush at the moment. Always obtainable online though as well would be apple or willow sticks. These would also provide enrichment for them. They're like a treat which keeps on giving if you like

So, get them accurately weighed and find out what they should be. Work gradually towards that by cutting out treats and adjusting other foods depending on what results you achieve without treats. I would write everything down ie their weight, what they should be, plus what they get each day.

Good luck!

I think at this point I can explain what happened at Lil's check up....

Firstly we saw a nurse who happened to have 16 rescued rabbits and knew a lot about bunnies and was on the same page as many on Rabbits United. She just wants to educate owners how to give the buns their best life and we talked about how bunnies are actually pretty complicated as pets and not the right pet for a child. Also we were her last appointment of the day so she was happy to chat and give us her time.

She got Lilabelle out and checked her stitches and said they were perfect. We discussed how I got confused about how much Loxicom is the correct dosage for a rabbit. She then said that if you divide the rabbit's weight by 3 then you get the dosage which was a helpful tip as well. She also said that Harrison (who did L's spay) loved rabbits and him and Enrico (who did M's lump) were both vets who specialise in exotic pets and very rabbit savvy as well. The nurse put Lillabelle on the floor to hop about and we discussed her weight. She weighed her and said she has lost weight since her op so she was 5 kgs on Thursday and is now 4.9 kgs so she said great. She said L was still needing to lose a fair bit and we should aim at 4 kgs or as near to it we can get. We chatted all about her bunnies and then we put L away and got Mischief out.

She again weighed him. He was 5.8 kgs and now is 5.7 kgs so great again. She said that Chief is a bigger build of bunny than Lillabelle and is very long. She said he looks as if he is part Giant Continental? She said he probably only needs to get to 5 kg at the most as is a bigger and stockier bunny. She gave us a weight for them each to get to by a month's time. For Lillabelle to aim for 4.7 kgs and M to aim for 5.4 kgs.

So that went quite well I feel. I'm not sure if those ideal weights are accurate but we will see. I would always make sure they did not get too thin though. And she will see us monthly for a free weigh in and quick chat so that is good.

And more importantly, Lillabelle is allowed out to play!! So they are out of the cage and seems very settled in again. Up on the bed demanding their herbs plus seen them both do a half binky today! And I have seen Lillabelle and Chief munching away on both types of hay this evening so really happy now

Thanks everyone!

 

[bunny momma]

It was so nice to read a very positive update. Having a nurse who cares for bunnies is a lovely addition to two exotic rabbit saavy vets.

How lovely that Lillabelle and Chief did binkies to celebrate their freedom!

I hope your daughter will soon be over her respiratory illness.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Thank you Bunny Momma. Yes I now have yourselves on RU and nurse and vets I can ask. I feel that 900gs seems a lot to lose for Lils but I will take it slow with them. She said we need to get as near as we can to that so I will do my best.

They didn't really beg last night but they will probably just want to chill after the vets. They had their fresh veggies for breakfast and have been sleeping most of the day which is usual for them until around now when they come out looking for hay and their tea time fresh veggies.
I wonder is that usual for buns to sleep most of the day. They do come out for hay sometimes but mostly sleep.

We forgot to ask about giving her meds anymore but she is acting like normal and eating about 80% of normal so we are leaving the loxicom now. She is also pooping regularly and they are a good amount but smaller and a bit irregular. They are also darker than usual and a little bit wet then they dry out quickly. I guess her poops will get to normal soon especially as she has no treats now and hopefully will eat more hay?

The nurse recommended we get a coarse timothy hay for Chief to eat and wear his teeth down and recommended Excel's timothy hay as good. I am struggling to find a good nourishing timothy hay we can afford.

We pay £50 a month for dried herbs a month plus another £40 a month we have spent on treats and toys for them. I will concentrate on getting toys instead. We also spend a lot on fresh veggies each week for them solely plus we give them cut offs from our veggies. And we pay £20 pm to the vets to get the VIP deal with 2 free check ups a year plus free jabs. And £40 on insurance. That's around £180 for two buns plus any taxis to vets and which is £14 a time. As we will be doing that monthly for their weigh check ups it all adds up.

I think I need to streamline what they really need. Stopping the treats and getting toys and a good quality timothy hay would be good for a start. She also suggested a snuffle mat for Chief as he eats his food so quick and I worry about him swallowing to his SS pellets too quickly after buns choking on them She does think the Excel ones are a little small for them which I do think they are. It is difficult to know which way to go really.

She said getting them more toys such as more willow toys (which I get) and more like the coconut shells she loves to play with. Sorry I am remembering things we talk about slowly. I find it hard to take in information and put it in my posts and I get muddled since my mini stroke so if I forget to answer anyone or everything on the posts that's why. I need to learn to write less especially now.

My daughter is much better already but she sounds dreadful! I hope all yourbuns are doing well x

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I feel I have made a mess of the posts on here especially my reply to your post Jane so I apologise it is in 2 lots.

I also did not say Omi that we are going to try making them run back and forth down our rather long hallway for their pellets and other 'treats' from their daily rations. And we have a game we taught Chief to copy when we jump and he would jump aswell. So we are trying that again although he does a kind of half binky at the moment and shakes his ears ❤ We need to try that with Lillabelle plus other games they can play which means moving about more.

Plus Omi you mentioned getting them sticks online. I did get apple sticks once online but they did not eat them. They were cut into all the same size. Is it possible to get whole twigs and small sticks that are still in their usual shape online anywhere please? I could get them online from Natures Grub and see what they are like but ideally I would like to try somewhere which other people have tried and can recommend if anyone can help?

Thank you to everybun for your help as Lils has sailed through her spay with me having all that info and help and vibes ❤

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Just a quick update...my two have been eating well out of their new hay rack today. So much so that they were hardly interested in their fresh veggies and Chief is running about everywhere and shaking his ears happily. Both are quite lively today which is fantastic. We tried to get a photo but they were in and out the shot so much we gave up! ❤

 

[Omi]

I feel I have made a mess of the posts on here especially my reply to your post Jane so I apologise it is in 2 lots.

I also did not say Omi that we are going to try making them run back and forth down our rather long hallway for their pellets and other 'treats' from their daily rations. And we have a game we taught Chief to copy when we jump and he would jump aswell. So we are trying that again although he does a kind of half binky at the moment and shakes his ears ❤ We need to try that with Lillabelle plus other games they can play which means moving about more.

Plus Omi you mentioned getting them sticks online. I did get apple sticks once online but they did not eat them. They were cut into all the same size. Is it possible to get whole twigs and small sticks that are still in their usual shape online anywhere please? I could get them online from Natures Grub and see what they are like but ideally I would like to try somewhere which other people have tried and can recommend if anyone can help?

Thank you to everybun for your help as Lils has sailed through her spay with me having all that info and help and vibes ❤

I suspect that the sticks you tried previously might have been dry and so possibly not very appetising for them. I get all of our sticks from our garden, so if you have any friends or neighbours with rabbit friendly trees, you could ask them for a few to try. My rabbits like, apple, pear, willow, hawthorn and hazel, along with a few others.

I had a look online to see what was available and sadly most of them did appear to be all cut to the same size. There's also a question then of where the sticks have come from. Anyway, these two sites looked very promising for uk grown willow. One of them also had some very nice looking willow toys, which they can of course nibble.

So I would happily get the blackberry leaves, willow sticks and fresh willow from this place http://www.rossrabbits.co.uk/fresh-willow.html

And this is the place which sells the willow toys as well https://willowsnursery.co.uk/product-category/willow-for-rabbits/

Regarding hay, I agree Excel timothy hay is very nice, but in my view also very expensive. I would say that this company's timothy hay is equally as good, but not as expensive https://www.timothyhay.co.uk/ I have been buying hay from them for years and several other members also use them. I have sometimes experimented and tried other companies, but always came back to them. We get just the regular timothy, which is in fact quite stalky.

Good to read that they've had a good day today. And have been running about and eating their hay.