Lillabelle getting spayed

[twistedtiggerz69]

I couldn't find a thread on this but wanted to say to Tonibun we are all sending you vibes for your doe getting her spay tomorrow if she still is. Chief and Lils send nose bumps to her ❤

 

[bunny momma]

I couldn't find a thread on this but wanted to say to Tonibun we are all sending you vibes for your doe getting her spay tomorrow if she still is. Chief and Lils send nose bumps to her ❤

I am also sending lots of positive vibes for an eventless spay and quick recovery!

 

[bunny momma]

I am glad Lillabelle recovered so quickly. Perhaps eventually it would be less stressful and more economical to weigh bunnies at home on a baby scale, instead of taking them to the vet regularly. I am sure someone on RU can recommend a reliable scale.

 

[InspectorMorse]

Weighing them at home is definitely the way to go. If you cannot obtain a set of digital baby scales then you could weigh yourself( weight A), then weigh yourself again whilst holding L or MC ( weight B) and deduct weight A from weight B to obtain the weight of the Bunny.

Digital baby scales are relatively inexpensive to buy and would give a more accurate weight.

Baby Scales for sale | eBay

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EDIT, found these on Vinted

https://www.vinted.co.uk/items/4499028511-baby-scales?referrer=catalog

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Thank you both BM and IM. We have baby scales here already as you helped me get some good ones on a later thread IM and yes you are right that it would be better for the buns if they did not have to go to the vets every month. I think we should go to the next one so she can look at the buns again and give advice and we will weigh them weekly aswell.

But that after that we could just go and get them weighed every 3 months? Or even when we get their jabs and free 6 monthly check ups? Of course they only need jabs once a year but I think 6 monthly check ups is the minimum needed especially with M's teeth. In fact I would like him to be checked 3 monthly now to see how his burrs are doing and whether the new hay and toys will help.

On the subject of the new hay, the Burgess hay is a bit short as we would like to use it in their hay racks/bags. The Science Selective we used before and they loved it. I thought the boxes may be higher grade although more expensive so went to trying all them. But is Science Selective a good enough hay for them? I think I need to read threads on hay so we look at them but will get a bag of Science Selective for now. Then they have 3 hays to choose from like the nurse suggested.

Omi thank you for your suggestions for sticks I could look at. I will read them and look to ordering some today.

When I said about costs for the buns I wasn't complaining. We can afford it but I just don't want the cost going up even more. We happily buy stuff for them

 

[Shimmer]

I would just weigh them at home every week, and keep a record of it. You can always ring the results through to the vet if you feel you need to. I wouldn't be making a trip just to get them weighed if you don't have to.

It's useful to weigh dental bunnies so you can tell when they are starting to have issues eating properly and catch it early.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I suspect that the sticks you tried previously might have been dry and so possibly not very appetising for them. I get all of our sticks from our garden, so if you have any friends or neighbours with rabbit friendly trees, you could ask them for a few to try. My rabbits like, apple, pear, willow, hawthorn and hazel, along with a few others.

I had a look online to see what was available and sadly most of them did appear to be all cut to the same size. There's also a question then of where the sticks have come from. Anyway, these two sites looked very promising for uk grown willow. One of them also had some very nice looking willow toys, which they can of course nibble.

So I would happily get the blackberry leaves, willow sticks and fresh willow from this place http://www.rossrabbits.co.uk/fresh-willow.html

And this is the place which sells the willow toys as well https://willowsnursery.co.uk/product-category/willow-for-rabbits/

Regarding hay, I agree Excel timothy hay is very nice, but in my view also very expensive. I would say that this company's timothy hay is equally as good, but not as expensive https://www.timothyhay.co.uk/ I have been buying hay from them for years and several other members also use them. I have sometimes experimented and tried other companies, but always came back to them. We get just the regular timothy, which is in fact quite stalky.

Good to read that they've had a good day today. And have been running about and eating their hay.

I apologise that I may have missed replying on your thread properly as my head is all over the place atm but I have read your post.

I looked at the willow you suggested plus the timothy hay. The willow branches sound nice for them so we are ordering some. They do have a couple of willow toys atm. One of them is a ball with very thick willow. They are taking ages with this one. Is it better that the willow is thick like that? We did buy a willow tunnel with thinner willow and Chief and Lils chewed it apart in 2-3 days and cost us £25. But this willow ball on the other hand is taking ages for them to eat and was around £10 I think. I hope the willow they cut for us will be fairly thick so they get some benefit as they chew it.

Those toys look a fantastic deal aswell and a good size for my buns. We will get some next month for them as we are ordering the timothy hay and willow branches this month.

What timothy hay would you suggest of the 3 types? I would say probably not the soft hay. They also offer brown, mature stalky timothy hay. Would that be best or is the timothy hay shown first stalky enough? I know Chief likes the green timothy hay. I will order some of this hay later today instead of the Science Selective as it is cheaper per kgs and if you and other members of RU use it the hay must be good..

Thank you once again for your help in this Omi.

 

[Omi]

I apologise that I may have missed replying on your thread properly as my head is all over the place atm but I have read your post.

I looked at the willow you suggested plus the timothy hay. The willow branches sound nice for them so we are ordering some. They do have a couple of willow toys atm. One of them is a ball with very thick willow. They are taking ages with this one. Is it better that the willow is thick like that? We did buy a willow tunnel with thinner willow and Chief and Lils chewed it apart in 2-3 days and cost us £25. But this willow ball on the other hand is taking ages for them to eat and was around £10 I think. I hope the willow they cut for us will be fairly thick so they get some benefit as they chew it.

Those toys look a fantastic deal aswell and a good size for my buns. We will get some next month for them as we are ordering the timothy hay and willow branches this month.

What timothy hay would you suggest of the 3 types? I would say probably not the soft hay. They also offer brown, mature stalky timothy hay. Would that be best or is the timothy hay shown first stalky enough? I know Chief likes the green timothy hay. I will order some of this hay later today instead of the Science Selective as it is cheaper per kgs and if you and other members of RU use it the hay must be good..

Thank you once again for your help in this Omi.

Re the hay, my rabbits won't eat soft hay, so I have to get some that's stalky. They also like it green, like Mischief as well. I've never tried this company's mature stalky hay, as it's described as brown and I don't think they would like it as much. I find this one to be long, green, stalky strands with a small amount of leaf and seed heads and so it fits what my rabbits like.
https://www.timothyhay.co.uk/products/copy-of-2015-10kg-of-timothy-hay The company is also very pleasant to deal with.

Re the place selling willow sticks, I have absolutely no experience of this company. I also have no experience buying willow I know though if I were thinking of buying some I would prefer to get it from a small company, who cut their own. I think also that as they cut to order, you could stipulate whether you wanted thick or thin sticks. I couldn't find any mention of how many sticks you get per batch. I imagine it might be determined by weight. I also couldn't find any mention about delivery charges, but again I imagine that would depend on the weight and so it would be added when you order. I hadn't looked before, but they also have a shop, where they have other forage items. From what I can determine, they are selling what they call fresh willow, which are the thin branches, willow sticks, which can vary in diameter and willow chew logs, which are really chunky. Make sure you order the type you want. Also the willow is all freshly cut, so will weigh heavier (mor moisture content) than the dry sticks available elsewhere. If the delivery charge seems a lot, maybe consider getting two batches to make it more worthwhile. If you do get some, maybe you could post a pic on the forum together with your views on the willow, just in case others might also be interested.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Thanks again Omi for this. Yes the green hay looks lovely for them so that is what I will get to try at least to start with.

I will also discuss the willow and other types of sticks they have and explain they are giant buns as maybe that will make a difference what cuts suit them best.
I will of course put a post up for everyone to read.

I feel like the stress of Lillabelle's spay and them losing weight has gone so much as they are eating more hay already and we are giving them their pellets by hand instead of treats so we can control how quickly they eat them as Chief can suck up loads of pellets like a hoover in one go. We are going to get snuffle mats but I haven't had much time to do thar yet as been babysitting at my daughters to help out. My OH is home with the buns so works out fine.

Lillabelle is eating almost like she normally does and pooping and weeing well so that is good aswell

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I just wanted to let you all know that the timothy hay came on Friday. It is so green and spiky and has what we call 'pussy willows' in it that Chief loves. We used to feed them to him when he was a baby. Unfortunately that hay was stopped from our local horse feed shop. I don't know what they are called though.

Our two love it! I leave some on a tray as a treat and they have been eating the lot. And leaving most of the hay in the bags/hay rack. I think they prefer hay in the ground but we will keep leaving some clean hay in hay bags next to the litter tray as well.

But thank you to Omi for the link as they are now eating more hay because of it. I will do a post on the willow sticks when it arrives which should be next week some time.

 

[Omi]

I just wanted to let you all know that the timothy hay came on Friday. It is so green and spiky and has what we call 'pussy willows' in it that Chief loves. We used to feed them to him when he was a baby. Unfortunately that hay was stopped from our local horse feed shop. I don't know what they are called though.

Our two love it! I leave some on a tray as a treat and they have been eating the lot. And leaving most of the hay in the bags/hay rack. I think they prefer hay in the ground but we will keep leaving some clean hay in hay bags next to the litter tray as well.

But thank you to Omi for the link as they are now eating more hay because of it. I will do a post on the willow sticks when it arrives which should be next week some time.

I am really so pleased The 'pussy willows' are the Timothy grass seed heads. Our bunnies certainly prefer hay on the ground, but it may be that that's what they're used to. They have large litter trays (hamster cage bases), where they get most of their hay. Fresh hay gets put at one end and they poop at the other It seems to suit them. We've tried putting fresh hay on one of their blocks, but they're not really interested.

And the best news of all is that they're eating lots of it

 

[bunny momma]

Well done getting them hay that works as a treat.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I am really so pleased The 'pussy willows' are the Timothy grass seed heads. Our bunnies certainly prefer hay on the ground, but it may be that that's what they're used to. They have large litter trays (hamster cage bases), where they get most of their hay. Fresh hay gets put at one end and they poop at the other It seems to suit them. We've tried putting fresh hay on one of their blocks, but they're not really interested.

And the best news of all is that they're eating lots of it

I just wanted to update you Omi.

So we have done as the veterinary nurse suggested which was keep the meadow hay and the soft hay and add the timothy hay so they have 3 types of hay now.

We have noticed that they eat all 3 and I put the hays in different containers by the litter traysand they don't eat it much. They much prefer the hay to be on the floor like your buns.

We have 2 extra large litter trays which we put on an extra large tray from a crate and there is room to leave a water bowl and hay on the tray. We put wood pellets in the litter tray but Chief somehow manages to stand in the poops and ends up with wet dirty paws even though we change it regularly. So we put some hay in every day and they poop and wee in one area of one of the litter trays but we can keep putting the hay on top without having to do a full change of litter and hay every time.

We also put hay on the large tray and that seems to be much more successful than the bags and hay rack although we still leave the bag full of timothy hay by the litter tray and they do eat some.

The main difference we have noticed is that they hardly ever beg for food now. And they leave some of their fresh veggies some times aswell. Well they eat the dill, parsley, coriander and mint as they love them the most but leave the veggies and go back later for it.

So basically I think they are so full up from the hay that they are happier. Also as we don't feed them treats they are not begging for them although we now give both of them half an egg cup full of pellets a day. We reduced Lillabelle's by half as she was having an egg cup full and we had to give Chief some because he was acting so hungry without treats or pellets. He nearly bites my hand off when I feed him at first but he starts to eat slower by half an egg cup full. We feed them by hand so we can slow down their eating their pellets as we have not got snuffle mats yet due to finances.

So all is good here as they are eating so much hay which is great. They did not come and ask for pellets either tonight so we didn't give them any

Unfortunately we have not received the fresh willow and blackberry sticks yet. I emailed the lady yesterday as had not heard from her and although I had an email when I ordered it she said the order itself did not go through or the payment.

She was very nice and said she would go out tomorrow and pick the willow for me as the weather is meant to be good and post it to me asap so I will let you know how it goes x

 

[bunny momma]

It is good to read your bunnies are eating more hay and fewer treats.
Mine prefer hay on the floor or in the litter box too. Though I laugh that they decide to eat the stray hay when I am sweeping.

I had to reduce the number of treat pellets my lionheads got. These two are very good at pretending the other person forgot to treat them, so now I portion out their ration every day, so no more double helpings.

 

[InspectorMorse]

It is far more natural for a Rabbit to graze hay from the floor than from a hay rack or bag. Also, there’s less chance of hay seeds getting into the eyes if the Rabbit grazes from the floor. Obviously it’s very important to insure the hay is free from urine contamination, which you are obviously doing

 

[Omi]

Thank you for the super update I don't think that I could have wished for a better result and I am really so pleased. It's so much better in all respects and also they have improved so quickly too. Well done bunnies

It's disappointing that the lady with the willow and blackberry is taking so much time. I hope that her weather is better today. It certainly isn't here!

There are different views on the benefits and suitability of snuffle mats. I am aware that some members like to use them, but I have never been tempted. I think that is probably because I like to care for my bunnies in a way that is as natural to them as possible. So we don't have anything like that here. I am also fairly confident that my bunnies wouldn't much care for them either and I can imagine that Froe might pick it up with his teeth and toss it around The only bowl we use is for water and so forage etc just gets left in a pile on the ground. I realise that hand-feeding is also not a natural concept, but we make an exception for this, as it is so helpful in stopping over-greediness by one bunny and also prevents either eating too quickly. I also consider it a good bonding experience between them and us. So, if you consider the methods you are using now are working well, then possibly consider not changing to snuffle mats?

Your documented experience will, I'm sure, be very useful to other members, who have bunnies who do not eat as much hay as they should

When are they due a weight check?

 

[InspectorMorse]

Thank you for the super update I don't think that I could have wished for a better result and I am really so pleased. It's so much better in all respects and also they have improved so quickly too. Well done bunnies

It's disappointing that the lady with the willow and blackberry is taking so much time. I hope that her weather is better today. It certainly isn't here!

There are different views on the benefits and suitability of snuffle mats. I am aware that some members like to use them, but I have never been tempted. I think that is probably because I like to care for my bunnies in a way that is as natural to them as possible. So we don't have anything like that here. I am also fairly confident that my bunnies wouldn't much care for them either and I can imagine that Froe might pick it up with his teeth and toss it around The only bowl we use is for water and so forage etc just gets left in a pile on the ground. I realise that hand-feeding is also not a natural concept, but we make an exception for this, as it is so helpful in stopping over-greediness by one bunny and also prevents either eating too quickly. I also consider it a good bonding experience between them and us. So, if you consider the methods you are using now are working well, then possibly consider not changing to snuffle mats?

Your documented experience will, I'm sure, be very useful to other members, who have bunnies who do not eat as much hay as they should

When are they due a weight check?

I 100% support Omi’s post. It’s so refreshing when someone puts in the effort to try to address the dietary and weight problems of their Rabbits. Diet is such a huge part of what contributes to the health of our Rabbits. Whilst it can be hard to resist giving in to the pleading eyes and begging for treats, by giving in we are not doing our Rabbits any favours in the long-run. Feeding a diet that is as close to that of a wild Rabbit is one of the best things we can do for our fury friends

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

It is good to read your bunnies are eating more hay and fewer treats.
Mine prefer hay on the floor or in the litter box too. Though I laugh that they decide to eat the stray hay when I am sweeping.

I had to reduce the number of treat pellets my lionheads got. These two are very good at pretending the other person forgot to treat them, so now I portion out their ration every day, so no more double helpings.

Oh mine do that! Mischief especially eats all the hay frantically as we sweep it up. We only put the hay onto the litter trays as we clean the big tray so we don't actually take it away They also like to play with the brush and the plastic litter scooper and shake the dustpan to knock the hay out so I have to sweep it all up again. Lillabelle especially loves to pick them up and drop them again. She also loves playing with the coconut shells and we hide food in them for her to find which she does straight away. It's not a taxing game for her really.

Yes we have now realised that they need to be fed separately. They don't have any commercial treats now but Lillabelle steals Chief's treats if we don't watch them

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

It is far more natural for a Rabbit to graze hay from the floor than from a hay rack or bag. Also, there’s less chance of hay seeds getting into the eyes if the Rabbit grazes from the floor. Obviously it’s very important to insure the hay is free from urine contamination, which you are obviously doing

Yes we now have given up on the bags and hay net. They have a little on their litter tray to prevent Chief from getting dirty paws as he has a habit of getting them dirty otherwise and we add a little hay through the day to ensure it is not wet or dirty. They have a main area for hay which they now eat off a tray and is much easier to clean and keep tidy tbh.

They are eating lots of hay now. I don't think it is 80% hay yet but is a good 60%. We leave them a large pile of timothy hay at night and it is mostly gone in the morning. They also get meadow hay and curly hay as well. They are less hungry as well. Often Mischief does not ask for his pellets all evening and so we just don't give him any. Lillabelle however asks constantly for pellets in the evening so Phil just spreads it out so she has a few and she goes away again

 

[tonibun]

That is wonderful they are eating more hay. Well done!