Lillabelle getting spayed

[twistedtiggerz69]

Thank you for the super update I don't think that I could have wished for a better result and I am really so pleased. It's so much better in all respects and also they have improved so quickly too. Well done bunnies

It's disappointing that the lady with the willow and blackberry is taking so much time. I hope that her weather is better today. It certainly isn't here!

There are different views on the benefits and suitability of snuffle mats. I am aware that some members like to use them, but I have never been tempted. I think that is probably because I like to care for my bunnies in a way that is as natural to them as possible. So we don't have anything like that here. I am also fairly confident that my bunnies wouldn't much care for them either and I can imagine that Froe might pick it up with his teeth and toss it around The only bowl we use is for water and so forage etc just gets left in a pile on the ground. I realise that hand-feeding is also not a natural concept, but we make an exception for this, as it is so helpful in stopping over-greediness by one bunny and also prevents either eating too quickly. I also consider it a good bonding experience between them and us. So, if you consider the methods you are using now are working well, then possibly consider not changing to snuffle mats?

Your documented experience will, I'm sure, be very useful to other members, who have bunnies who do not eat as much hay as they should

When are they due a weight check?

Thank you for the super update I don't think that I could have wished for a better result and I am really so pleased. It's so much better in all respects and also they have improved so quickly too. Well done bunnies

It's disappointing that the lady with the willow and blackberry is taking so much time. I hope that her weather is better today. It certainly isn't here!

There are different views on the benefits and suitability of snuffle mats. I am aware that some members like to use them, but I have never been tempted. I think that is probably because I like to care for my bunnies in a way that is as natural to them as possible. So we don't have anything like that here. I am also fairly confident that my bunnies wouldn't much care for them either and I can imagine that Froe might pick it up with his teeth and toss it around The only bowl we use is for water and so forage etc just gets left in a pile on the ground. I realise that hand-feeding is also not a natural concept, but we make an exception for this, as it is so helpful in stopping over-greediness by one bunny and also prevents either eating too quickly. I also consider it a good bonding experience between them and us. So, if you consider the methods you are using now are working well, then possibly consider not changing to snuffle mats?

Your documented experience will, I'm sure, be very useful to other members, who have bunnies who do not eat as much hay as they should

When are they due a weight check?

I have good news and I apologise for taking so long.

Regarding the fresh willow and blackberry leaves

Fresh willow - Ross Rabbits - Probably the friendliest French Lops you'll ever meet

www.rossrabbits.co.uk

The lady did not get my order for some reason. I think an email goes out automatically when you order. I checked my bank and the order did not go through either. I would email the lady, Karen, when you receive the first email to make sure she has go the order. Then you can ask her for the sizes of sticks plus any other info. Karen goes to cut off the willow on order so you need to give her around a week to wait for good weather however the parcel was quick via Royal Mail

Karen is very friendly and she apologised and got the order to me in a few days very quickly.
I have been chatting to her as she has bred french lops for 50 years! She told me she knows this forum and some of the members have helped her adopt her bunnies.

When we received the parcel it was pretty big. When you open the parcel you can smell the willow. In there were loads of different willow sized sticks plus fresh willow branches with lots of fresh willow on. When I gave it to them they ate some leaves but not much else happened so I was a bit disappointed.

However we left some with them and by the morning all the fresh leaves and twigs were gone and all that was left were sticks of all sizes chewed up. The larger thick sticks up to 4 cms width (size of a larger broom handle) had the bark stripped off.

They have now eaten all the leaves sent to us. Unfortunately some had withered dry but they still eat them. I would say the large sticks are great for medium to large rabbits but even a couple of the large sticks would be good for small buns as well as they can chew the bark off them and get to the fragrant sap underneath. We have kept some sticks to give them gradually and there is loads there easily enough for my two with lots extra.

They also love the blackberry leaves she sent and they are a treat for them.

I would definitely recommend everybun to try the willow. It is fresh so is not like dried willow so is probably good for their teeth however not as much as dried willow. I will definitely order this willow. I can't find the cost of postage and packing but think it was around £3-4 I think.

Karen did send me a lovely photo of green nature where she picks the willow from but I can't find it. If I do I will post it.

I hope this helps anyone interested in trying it. I personally will keep in touch with Karen as we are chatting about frenchies And yes I would buy the willow again on a regular basis. We see them chewing it sometimes but it is at night when they eat and chew it mostly. I see it as a healthy treat plus it helps alleviate boredom and also would help with dental issues somewhat.

Oh and I know we don't advertise on here but if anybun is interested Karen has also written a book about rabbits as well

As far as snuffle mats go, I will leave them as I would rather give him pellets by hand. I also want to bond with them and we do swap around sometimes. Mischief is getting really bolshy and cranky as he gets older and I felt maybe with the pellets I am able to ask him to slow down and not boss me about. He nipped my arm getting over excited about his pellets and kind of nipped me to say 'hurry up mum!' kind of thing but unfortunately I don't have fur It hurt a bit and I got a little bruise from it so I feel he needs to know who is this boss around here. As in ask him to wait for his pellets nicely and not be so bolshy. It is difficult to teach him that. All he sees is 'FOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

I also think the snuffle mats are not really for me now. I see what you mean about Froe just tossing it about. I think Chief will just eat his!

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Sorry I quoted you twice Omi. I don't have great PC skills as not worked for so long and am just teaching myself to type again on my tablet so maybe someone could tidy it up for me please?

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

How doe you delete a post you are writing please? I apologise for making a mess of your lovely forum

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

As far as the most recent weigh ins have gone...

Mischief weighed 5.595 kg on the 4th June
Mischief weighed 5.7 kg on the 13th May
Therefore over 3 weeks he has lost 105g so 35 g a week

Lillabelle weighed 4.750 kg on the 9th June
(It took us that long to get her to stand on the scales herself as we are teaching her atm)
Lillabelle weighed 4.9 kg on the 13th May
Therefore over 4 weeks she has lost 150 g so 37.5 g a week.

As the vet nurse said 50 g per week they are a bit behind.

When we stopped the treats on 13th May we realised Mischief was also getting a handful of pellets and he was really hungry and actually bit me by accident as too excited about having his pellets. We decided to give him half an egg cup full of pellets a day with Lillabelle. We also had a problem this week as their herbs didn't arrive due to delivery problems so we had to carry on giving them both half an egg cup full.

Since the last weigh in we have cut their pellets down slightly. We have decided to use their pellets as a way to up and down their daily calories. Mischief now has a quarter of an egg cup full and so does Lillabelle although she does come back a few times in the evening. We will give them a treat from their daily rations if they are begging for treats. Sometimes I just lean a pillow over the gap between the bed and the table so they can't see me and I can't see their cute little faces It is usually Mischief that begs from there and often he doesn't bother to jump on the bed.

I have also to tell you some exciting news...Mischief did a full binky yesterday with all four paws up in the air! It was a lovely moment but my OH missed it But it is still fantastic news. I realise now they must have been so overweight Especially Lillabelle. I thought she was just chunky like Chief. She has actually lost a kilo in total. Mischief has lost 500 g.

Otherwise they are both really well. They look slimmer now and we can now see their back legs properly as no fat there. And they are more active. Mischief has a run around under the bed sometimes which he never did. Lillabelle is even faster and sleeker. And they both do the kitchen run every day for their sprig of herbs or piece of broccoli stem

They also eat lots of timothy hay still and we are now ordering our second lot.

Yes they are doing well and losing weight slowly and healthily which is my primary concern

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I 100% support Omi’s post. It’s so refreshing when someone puts in the effort to try to address the dietary and weight problems of their Rabbits. Diet is such a huge part of what contributes to the health of our Rabbits. Whilst it can be hard to resist giving in to the pleading eyes and begging for treats, by giving in we are not doing our Rabbits any favours in the long-run. Feeding a diet that is as close to that of a wild Rabbit is one of the best things we can do for our fury friends

Yes I have now learnt not to overfeed them or any pet actually.

Gradually reducing their meals over weeks and only choosing healthy foods for them and gradually dropping any foods that are not so healthy. They don't have commercial treats now. Just foods out their daily amount so not extra calories. Thank you everybun for your help with their diets. They are still on their diets and have a weigh in around now so I need to book them in with the vets.

Tbh I think we will go to the vets for this one as I said we would see her in a month. I realise I don't really need to go to the vets for a weigh in however I do need to get Chief's teeth checked regularly. How often do I need to take him please?

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

That is wonderful they are eating more hay. Well done!

Thank you Tonibun. Yes they are doing really well. I see them eat hay a lot especially near feed times. However I still would not say they eat hay 'all of the time'. I am thinking if we gradually reduce their meals very slightly but regularly then we can trim the calories a day as they move over to hay more

 

[Omi]

I have good news and I apologise for taking so long.

Regarding the fresh willow and blackberry leaves

Fresh willow - Ross Rabbits - Probably the friendliest French Lops you'll ever meet

www.rossrabbits.co.uk

The lady did not get my order for some reason. I think an email goes out automatically when you order. I checked my bank and the order did not go through either. I would email the lady, Karen, when you receive the first email to make sure she has go the order. Then you can ask her for the sizes of sticks plus any other info. Karen goes to cut off the willow on order so you need to give her around a week to wait for good weather however the parcel was quick via Royal Mail

Karen is very friendly and she apologised and got the order to me in a few days very quickly.
I have been chatting to her as she has bred french lops for 50 years! She told me she knows this forum and some of the members have helped her adopt her bunnies.

When we received the parcel it was pretty big. When you open the parcel you can smell the willow. In there were loads of different willow sized sticks plus fresh willow branches with lots of fresh willow on. When I gave it to them they ate some leaves but not much else happened so I was a bit disappointed.

However we left some with them and by the morning all the fresh leaves and twigs were gone and all that was left were sticks of all sizes chewed up. The larger thick sticks up to 4 cms width (size of a larger broom handle) had the bark stripped off.

They have now eaten all the leaves sent to us. Unfortunately some had withered dry but they still eat them. I would say the large sticks are great for medium to large rabbits but even a couple of the large sticks would be good for small buns as well as they can chew the bark off them and get to the fragrant sap underneath. We have kept some sticks to give them gradually and there is loads there easily enough for my two with lots extra.

They also love the blackberry leaves she sent and they are a treat for them.

I would definitely recommend everybun to try the willow. It is fresh so is not like dried willow so is probably good for their teeth however not as much as dried willow. I will definitely order this willow. I can't find the cost of postage and packing but think it was around £3-4 I think.

Karen did send me a lovely photo of green nature where she picks the willow from but I can't find it. If I do I will post it.

I hope this helps anyone interested in trying it. I personally will keep in touch with Karen as we are chatting about frenchies And yes I would buy the willow again on a regular basis. We see them chewing it sometimes but it is at night when they eat and chew it mostly. I see it as a healthy treat plus it helps alleviate boredom and also would help with dental issues somewhat.

Oh and I know we don't advertise on here but if anybun is interested Karen has also written a book about rabbits as well

As far as snuffle mats go, I will leave them as I would rather give him pellets by hand. I also want to bond with them and we do swap around sometimes. Mischief is getting really bolshy and cranky as he gets older and I felt maybe with the pellets I am able to ask him to slow down and not boss me about. He nipped my arm getting over excited about his pellets and kind of nipped me to say 'hurry up mum!' kind of thing but unfortunately I don't have fur It hurt a bit and I got a little bruise from it so I feel he needs to know who is this boss around here. As in ask him to wait for his pellets nicely and not be so bolshy. It is difficult to teach him that. All he sees is 'FOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

I also think the snuffle mats are not really for me now. I see what you mean about Froe just tossing it about. I think Chief will just eat his!

The Willow sounds exactly like I hoped it would be, so I'm very pleased at that. I think it's good to know where the sticks are coming from too. A bonus also that Karen is friendly and that she has French Lops.

I think your two have got through them in a very similar way to what I would expect here, so leaves first and then smaller twigs eaten, but larger ones having bark removed. We very often leave sticks overnight with the bunnies, as eating them is a lengthy process and it keeps them busy overnight. Are you saying that you think that fresh Willow is not so beneficial for teeth as dried? I don't know for sure, but I would doubt that to be the case.

I'm glad they also liked the Blackberry leaves

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

The Willow sounds exactly like I hoped it would be, so I'm very pleased at that. I think it's good to know where the sticks are coming from too. A bonus also that Karen is friendly and that she has French Lops.

I think your two have got through them in a very similar way to what I would expect here, so leaves first and then smaller twigs eaten, but larger ones having bark removed. We very often leave sticks overnight with the bunnies, as eating them is a lengthy process and it keeps them busy overnight. Are you saying that you think that fresh Willow is not so beneficial for teeth as dried? I don't know for sure, but I would doubt that to be the case.

I'm glad they also liked the Blackberry leaves

Yes I think you are right that the big sticks are good to leave with them a few days even. We have plenty of spare for now.

I will probably go back for some regularly as they obviously love them and they are a lovely natural treat.

Well I actually asked Karen and she said they may be slightly less beneficial to dry sticks but I think if they are eating good amounts of hay as well plus other dried willow toys, dandelion roots and dried sticks then it should help surely?

I am going to try buying apple sticks from Nature's Grub actually as they may be more natural than the usual cut sticks. Tbh I only got them dried apple sticks once and also tried it with both my past buns and they all turned their noses up at it. However these was pet shop bought. I am sure their sticks will be better.

Yes they loved the blackberry leaves but there were not enough to last my two long however they make a healthy treat for any bun.

I am going to look at her book and can find out what it is about and cost. Will let you all know soon.

 

[Omi]

As far as the most recent weigh ins have gone...

Mischief weighed 5.595 kg on the 4th June
Mischief weighed 5.7 kg on the 13th May
Therefore over 3 weeks he has lost 105g so 35 g a week

Lillabelle weighed 4.750 kg on the 9th June
(It took us that long to get her to stand on the scales herself as we are teaching her atm)
Lillabelle weighed 4.9 kg on the 13th May
Therefore over 4 weeks she has lost 150 g so 37.5 g a week.

As the vet nurse said 50 g per week they are a bit behind.

When we stopped the treats on 13th May we realised Mischief was also getting a handful of pellets and he was really hungry and actually bit me by accident as too excited about having his pellets. We decided to give him half an egg cup full of pellets a day with Lillabelle. We also had a problem this week as their herbs didn't arrive due to delivery problems so we had to carry on giving them both half an egg cup full.

Since the last weigh in we have cut their pellets down slightly. We have decided to use their pellets as a way to up and down their daily calories. Mischief now has a quarter of an egg cup full and so does Lillabelle although she does come back a few times in the evening. We will give them a treat from their daily rations if they are begging for treats. Sometimes I just lean a pillow over the gap between the bed and the table so they can't see me and I can't see their cute little faces It is usually Mischief that begs from there and often he doesn't bother to jump on the bed.

I have also to tell you some exciting news...Mischief did a full binky yesterday with all four paws up in the air! It was a lovely moment but my OH missed it But it is still fantastic news. I realise now they must have been so overweight Especially Lillabelle. I thought she was just chunky like Chief. She has actually lost a kilo in total. Mischief has lost 500 g.

Otherwise they are both really well. They look slimmer now and we can now see their back legs properly as no fat there. And they are more active. Mischief has a run around under the bed sometimes which he never did. Lillabelle is even faster and sleeker. And they both do the kitchen run every day for their sprig of herbs or piece of broccoli stem

They also eat lots of timothy hay still and we are now ordering our second lot.

Yes they are doing well and losing weight slowly and healthily which is my primary concern

If you are now having to order a second lot of timothy hay, they are doing well. My two will normally get through the 8.5kg box in 3 weeks, which sounds very similar to Mischief and Lillabelle

Using their pellets to adjust their daily calories sounds a really sensible way of managing things. I would also be happy with the weight that they both have lost, despite the nurse suggesting 50g per week. Also if the first of the two weights was taken in the vet surgery, then those scales could be slightly different to yours, so either up or down. It will be a good test to have them weighed on the same scales when you take them back. I think that the nurse will be very satisfied with all of your efforts. And whilst the weight loss is needed and important, it is also important that they are now getting their calories only from healthy food, ie no commercial treats. I expect the nurse will also be pleased about their increased hay eating and also the leaves and sticks.

I imagine you must be feeling extremely satisfied with all your efforts and it must be super to see Mischief binkying and just noticing how much slimmer and faster in their movements they both are too. Binkying and moving faster will also bring them health benefits too, as well as helping with their weight loss.

Let us know how the weigh-in with the nurse goes for them both

 

[Omi]

Yes I think you are right that the big sticks are good to leave with them a few days even. We have plenty of spare for now.

I will probably go back for some regularly as they obviously love them and they are a lovely natural treat.

Well I actually asked Karen and she said they may be slightly less beneficial to dry sticks but I think if they are eating good amounts of hay as well plus other dried willow toys, dandelion roots and dried sticks then it should help surely?

I am going to try buying apple sticks from Nature's Grub actually as they may be more natural than the usual cut sticks. Tbh I only got them dried apple sticks once and also tried it with both my past buns and they all turned their noses up at it. However this was pet shop bought. I am sure their sticks will be better.

Yes they loved the blackberry leaves but there were not enough to last my two long however they make a healthy treat for any bun.

I am going to look at her book and can find out what it is about and cost. Will let you all know soon.

I don't understand why fresh sticks should be slightly less beneficial for teeth, than dried, but I could be wrong. I would have thought that they are both equally fibrous.

I think it will be a good plan to try them soon with some Apple sticks as well. It could well be that now that they are used to chewing sticks and obviously enjoy doing so, they would be more enthusiastic about trying different types of sticks.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

OK The book is a grown ups guide to owning and adopting rabbits. It is aimed at the adult beginner through to the experienced rabbit owner who wishes to know more.

Price is £21.99 as a paperback or £4.99 on kindle.

If anyone wants more info including a link please let me know

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

If you are now having to order a second lot of timothy hay, they are doing well. My two will normally get through the 8.5kg box in 3 weeks, which sounds very similar to Mischief and Lillabelle

Using their pellets to adjust their daily calories sounds a really sensible way of managing things. I would also be happy with the weight that they both have lost, despite the nurse suggesting 50g per week. Also if the first of the two weights was taken in the vet surgery, then those scales could be slightly different to yours, so either up or down. It will be a good test to have them weighed on the same scales when you take them back. I think that the nurse will be very satisfied with all of your efforts. And whilst the weight loss is needed and important, it is also important that they are now getting their calories only from healthy food, ie no commercial treats. I expect the nurse will also be pleased about their increased hay eating and also the leaves and sticks.

I imagine you must be feeling extremely satisfied with all your efforts and it must be super to see Mischief binkying and just noticing how much slimmer and faster in their movements they both are too. Binkying and moving faster will also bring them health benefits too, as well as helping with their weight loss.

Let us know how the weigh-in with the nurse goes for them both

Thank you Omi

Yes I think them losing weight slowly is important as well. They have lost a lot of weight already so I expected the weight loss to slow down eventually. I do think we were feeding them slightly too many pellets however I initially thought to start on half an egg cup full and then weigh them in a couple of weeks. It ended up being longer between weigh ins however we have reduced their pellets slightly so I hope to see them lose around 50 g a week. Is 50 g per week weight loss about right do you think? I trust you, Jane and others I see regularly on this forum because you have helped us so much especially when Chief was so ill with a lung infection.

I am more than satisfied. I am overjoyed to see them run down the hall and around our bedroom. And Mischief's binky was so adorable He is just the cutest bunny anyway and he did a little head toss and his ears went flying up in the air! It is a big moment for him I feel.

Karen said that Mischief being nearly 6 is good for a Frenchie. All of hers were 6-8 years old when she lost them and it made my heart sink to hear that I have been trying everything I can to help them stay healthy and live as long as possible. That's all I can do. And enjoy them

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I don't understand why fresh sticks should be slightly less beneficial for teeth, than dried, but I could be wrong. I would have thought that they are both equally fibrous.

I think it will be a good plan to try them soon with some Apple sticks as well. It could well be that now that they are used to chewing sticks and obviously enjoy doing so, they would be more enthusiastic about trying different types of sticks.

I think you could be right Omi. I don't see any differences hence why I asked Karen this.

Yes I will get apple sticks on their next 'herbs' order. My OH is always joking that we spend a fortune on 'sticks' because of the rabbits and I think he could be nearer to the truth than I thought