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Lillabelle not eating
- Thread starter twistedtiggerz69
- Start date
twistedtiggerz69
Mama Doe
Thank you BM xx
twistedtiggerz69
Mama Doe
We had the vet ring at 7.30pm. She apologised for not ringing before but they are extremely busy right now.
We have the blood results back. I asked her to speak slowly. She said L's last blood tests showed very high Creatine Kinase (CK) which she thought could be where she is underweight and has no fat stores so the body uses up muscle instead.
However she said she would be hoping to see her creatine kinase levels going down in this recent blood test however they are slightly elevated again which is a concern for her liver. I asked what could cause this but she said there are various reasons that a liver has problems. She has asked us to take her in again on Monday for an addominal ultrasound. She will hopefully have this without GA.
I asked her if giving her Metoclopramide for a long time could cause this and she said there is nothing you could have done to cause this.
We have read up on this briefly and it does say that stress of handling in rabbits and repeated blood tests could cause this. Unfortunately she did not tell me the levels of CK in her bloods taken before and in later test.
She seemed to be more concerned about muscle wastage. Lillabelle is eating loads including 40 SS pellets a day. We weighed her again today and she has only lost 5g in the last 3 days but I was hoping to see weight gain as she put on 65g in the 4 days before.
She seems happy enough and she sleeps in her usual places now. She is much less anxious about being picked up now as the only time we have picked her up is for weighing her. I sit on the bed and my OH gets the scales ready and picks her up from the pen (when she goes in there next) and weighs her gently so does not stress her out even more than she is already.
We are wondering if it is stressed that caused this from syringe feeds as she had struggled to get away sometimes.
Lillabelle seems to be stronger and my OH says she is much stronger when he picks her up now. She is eating so much now. We also read that dandelion leaves can cause a rise in CK levels. They have 2 handfuls of dandelion leaves a day with plantain. They were also having dandelion roots as well but we have run out of them now. We are wondering if this has caused the CK levels to increase and then be elevated slightly more this time?
Does anybody know if there is anything we can give her naturally to reduce her levels of CK . We also wonder if we should stop giving her dandelion leaves for now?
Also what else could help her gain muscle quickly? Are there certain natural foods we can give her to do this? We have oat hay and Readigrass as well as timothy hay here. We also have dried oats here. We won't change the diets unless anybody thinks we should. Any ideas much appreciated.
We are very worried now as this sounds serious
We have the blood results back. I asked her to speak slowly. She said L's last blood tests showed very high Creatine Kinase (CK) which she thought could be where she is underweight and has no fat stores so the body uses up muscle instead.
However she said she would be hoping to see her creatine kinase levels going down in this recent blood test however they are slightly elevated again which is a concern for her liver. I asked what could cause this but she said there are various reasons that a liver has problems. She has asked us to take her in again on Monday for an addominal ultrasound. She will hopefully have this without GA.
I asked her if giving her Metoclopramide for a long time could cause this and she said there is nothing you could have done to cause this.
We have read up on this briefly and it does say that stress of handling in rabbits and repeated blood tests could cause this. Unfortunately she did not tell me the levels of CK in her bloods taken before and in later test.
She seemed to be more concerned about muscle wastage. Lillabelle is eating loads including 40 SS pellets a day. We weighed her again today and she has only lost 5g in the last 3 days but I was hoping to see weight gain as she put on 65g in the 4 days before.
She seems happy enough and she sleeps in her usual places now. She is much less anxious about being picked up now as the only time we have picked her up is for weighing her. I sit on the bed and my OH gets the scales ready and picks her up from the pen (when she goes in there next) and weighs her gently so does not stress her out even more than she is already.
We are wondering if it is stressed that caused this from syringe feeds as she had struggled to get away sometimes.
Lillabelle seems to be stronger and my OH says she is much stronger when he picks her up now. She is eating so much now. We also read that dandelion leaves can cause a rise in CK levels. They have 2 handfuls of dandelion leaves a day with plantain. They were also having dandelion roots as well but we have run out of them now. We are wondering if this has caused the CK levels to increase and then be elevated slightly more this time?
Does anybody know if there is anything we can give her naturally to reduce her levels of CK . We also wonder if we should stop giving her dandelion leaves for now?
Also what else could help her gain muscle quickly? Are there certain natural foods we can give her to do this? We have oat hay and Readigrass as well as timothy hay here. We also have dried oats here. We won't change the diets unless anybody thinks we should. Any ideas much appreciated.
We are very worried now as this sounds serious
twistedtiggerz69
Mama Doe
Also the vet has heard back from the london vets and she will need to have more dentals done. She said she is more concerned about why the blood CK level is elevated as this shows break down of muscles. So we will talk about dentals later once we know what is happening after her ultrasound.
My OH took a photo of them 3 weeks and I wanted to post it for you all. Mischief is giving Lillabelle an ear cuddle ❤
My OH took a photo of them 3 weeks and I wanted to post it for you all. Mischief is giving Lillabelle an ear cuddle ❤
bunny momma
Wise Old Thumper
They look very cute together!
Your vet should give you suggestions for diet and treatment, if any is needed, for Lillabelle.
You wrote vet said her CK levels were very high in her last blood test and only slightly elevated this time. That sounds like improvement to me. She was in stasis for a long time, so I am not surprised her body broke down muscle.
Small weight differences from week to week may be due to the timing of her eating, peeing, pooping. How is her weight compared to a few weeks ago? Also, am I correct you did not increase her pellets until recently?
When is the ultrasound?
Sending vibes.
Your vet should give you suggestions for diet and treatment, if any is needed, for Lillabelle.
You wrote vet said her CK levels were very high in her last blood test and only slightly elevated this time. That sounds like improvement to me. She was in stasis for a long time, so I am not surprised her body broke down muscle.
Small weight differences from week to week may be due to the timing of her eating, peeing, pooping. How is her weight compared to a few weeks ago? Also, am I correct you did not increase her pellets until recently?
When is the ultrasound?
Sending vibes.
twistedtiggerz69
Mama Doe
She didn't say anything or ask about her diet either. The vet said the CK levels were very high last time and slightly MORE increased in this recent blood test. Sorry I should have made myself clear. I did ask the same thing to the vet. She said they were slightly more elevated than last time unfortunately.They look very cute together!
Your vet should give you suggestions for diet and treatment, if any is needed, for Lillabelle.
You wrote vet said her CK levels were very high in her last blood test and only slightly elevated this time. That sounds like improvement to me. She was in stasis for a long time, so I am not surprised her body broke down muscle.
Small weight differences from week to week may be due to the timing of her eating, peeing, pooping. How is her weight compared to a few weeks ago? Also, am I correct you did not increase her pellets until recently?
When is the ultrasound?
Sending vibes.
I didn't think of her gut stasis! Thank you. That makes me feel slightly better. Although the vet did know as she was in stasis the first time she saw Lillabelle. She has always maintained that Lillabelle may not have stopped eating because of her teeth and her teeth are secondary to something else.
We just thought she was eating well and looks to be getting stronger every day. She is acting much more like herself with her feisty boxing she does with her paws up when we go to stroke her. If we leave our hand for her there she drops her paws and gives her head to be rubbed ❤
We did weigh her after her tea today and we usually weigh her before. We will need to weigh her again. However we are trying not to cause her any more stress as she does not like being handled too much. The vet said that she will do her ultrasound with her conscious as she is so well behaved and just lies there for fuss. I forgot to mention that. Lillabelle would never have been that tame before. She is so well behaved and not bothered at the vets. She is much better being handled now as well and just sits in my OH's arms while I check her over. It is so much better for me too as she likes me now ❤
Her weight is down. She was 5.015 kg on 2nd Sept and 4.955 on 3rd October. 4.855 kg on 7th October. She has levelled out now though and has been the same weight for a couple of weeks. Since the dental in fact. It is also possible she didn't eat well for a few days after either. Her appetite is huge now though! Perhaps she just needs time to recover from the stasis and all the to and fro to the vets and all the syringe feeding? It was full on for a while.
We decided to stop giving her dandelion leaves for a while until we know it is not attributing to her high CK levels. I know it may be that I am worrying about nothing but I have ordered plantain instead. I have also ordered alfafa in case she would benefit from the extra protein levels.
Yes we increased her SS pellets from 20 to 40 about a week ago. We split them 20 in morning 20 in evening. And we are giving her a small bowl of oat hay/Readigrass split in 2 feeds as well.
Her ultrasound is on Monday. Thank you so much Bunny Momma x
twistedtiggerz69
Mama Doe
No need to apologise. Thank you so much x
katbun
Young Bun
Lovely picture, theyre both so adorable!
If dandelions can cause an increase in CK, I would definitely tell the vet that she was eating them everyday. Maybe those levels aren't as concerning if you factor in the amount of dandelions in her diet! They may want you to stop feeding things that artificially raise the CK levels so they can get a more accurate reading of this muscle wastage issue.
I definitely wouldn't worry yourself over causing stress through syringe feeding, after all what was the alternative? Better to be a little stressed than go into stasis.
Joey's underweight and has lost muscle definition in his back legs, so our vet has him on Emeraid Sustain as a supplement to his regular diet. I don't know if that would work for Lillabelle but just a thought.
Good luck with the ultrasound!
If dandelions can cause an increase in CK, I would definitely tell the vet that she was eating them everyday. Maybe those levels aren't as concerning if you factor in the amount of dandelions in her diet! They may want you to stop feeding things that artificially raise the CK levels so they can get a more accurate reading of this muscle wastage issue.
I definitely wouldn't worry yourself over causing stress through syringe feeding, after all what was the alternative? Better to be a little stressed than go into stasis.
Joey's underweight and has lost muscle definition in his back legs, so our vet has him on Emeraid Sustain as a supplement to his regular diet. I don't know if that would work for Lillabelle but just a thought.
Good luck with the ultrasound!
twistedtiggerz69
Mama Doe
Thank you ❤
Yes I thought the same. They were getting a sprinkle of dandelion root nibbles sprinkled on their forage as well. Then it ran out. I wonder if that is why the blood test CK level was very high and then when we ran out it was slightly more increased. We have stopped dandelion leaves and roots for now. I ordered some plantain instead and because of my bad memory I ordered another lot
I think it is probably more likely that stasis caused a problem and as you say, we had to syringe feed her. She has been eating since her dental on her own. She gets an extra 20 pellets plus a small bowl of oat hay and Readigrass mixed.
I was thinking of getting some alfalfa but after reading up on it and seeing high calcium I left it. L did have one wee that was white recently when they were eating lots of cauliflower leaves from a farm where we are allowed to pick them. They absolutely love them but we stopped them after that wee.
I will look in to getting some. Thank you ❤
Yes I thought the same. They were getting a sprinkle of dandelion root nibbles sprinkled on their forage as well. Then it ran out. I wonder if that is why the blood test CK level was very high and then when we ran out it was slightly more increased. We have stopped dandelion leaves and roots for now. I ordered some plantain instead and because of my bad memory I ordered another lot
I think it is probably more likely that stasis caused a problem and as you say, we had to syringe feed her. She has been eating since her dental on her own. She gets an extra 20 pellets plus a small bowl of oat hay and Readigrass mixed.
I was thinking of getting some alfalfa but after reading up on it and seeing high calcium I left it. L did have one wee that was white recently when they were eating lots of cauliflower leaves from a farm where we are allowed to pick them. They absolutely love them but we stopped them after that wee.
I will look in to getting some. Thank you ❤
bunny momma
Wise Old Thumper
Thank you for clarifying that he CK levels were slightly More elevated. I hope her ultrasound will give you the answers you need.
twistedtiggerz69
Mama Doe
So I spoke to Inspector Morse (Jane) this morning and she advised me to find out more about why L is booked in for her diagnostics on Monday. As L is such a stressful rabbit IM thought we should make sure it is in L's interests to go to the vet yet again.
The vet is extremely busy with emergencies today including a cat that has just been brought in as hit by a car ☹ So the receptionist agreed to send me L's notes and blood tests for IM to look at but she needs to get authorisation first so it may not be done until early next week. The receptionist read from the notes that vet suspects an underlying heart issue. It makes sense due to her fast breathing and IM mentions a heart issue being the cause (post 268)
She is booked in for an ultrasound on her stomach to look at her organs plus she said she will try and do a chest X-ray but she thinks L's heart will be too small to get a good picture.
We have decided that she does need these tests done to hopefully rule out heart problems plus we will worry about her if we don't know all the facts.
We bought her a new comfy cushion for her carrier. It has bunnies all over it. We are going to spend some extra time with our bunnies this weekend giving them love and snuggles and head rubs ❤❤
The vet is extremely busy with emergencies today including a cat that has just been brought in as hit by a car ☹ So the receptionist agreed to send me L's notes and blood tests for IM to look at but she needs to get authorisation first so it may not be done until early next week. The receptionist read from the notes that vet suspects an underlying heart issue. It makes sense due to her fast breathing and IM mentions a heart issue being the cause (post 268)
She is booked in for an ultrasound on her stomach to look at her organs plus she said she will try and do a chest X-ray but she thinks L's heart will be too small to get a good picture.
We have decided that she does need these tests done to hopefully rule out heart problems plus we will worry about her if we don't know all the facts.
We bought her a new comfy cushion for her carrier. It has bunnies all over it. We are going to spend some extra time with our bunnies this weekend giving them love and snuggles and head rubs ❤❤
twistedtiggerz69
Mama Doe
So we had the ultrasound yesterday. Sorry I did not write a post yesterday but my pain was bad when I got home.
She has inflamed tissue surrounding her liver. She has sent the pictures on to the london vets again however she thinks it is either fatty liver from losing weight too quick with her gut stasis or an infection like hepatitis. We should hear in a few days hopefully.
We have ordered extra Readigrass and junior Excel as Lillabelle is constantly eating and seems very hungry compared to normal. We will also order her some milk thistle once we know what is wrong with her liver and whether it will help as we are a bit short on funds atm.
She also took X-rays of her heart but it was very tiny to see. However she says it looks ok to her. The vet says she is mostly worried about her blood tests and that she is showing muscle degeneration. She says it is good that she is eating well though. We will hopefully hear back from the vets in a few days.
She has inflamed tissue surrounding her liver. She has sent the pictures on to the london vets again however she thinks it is either fatty liver from losing weight too quick with her gut stasis or an infection like hepatitis. We should hear in a few days hopefully.
We have ordered extra Readigrass and junior Excel as Lillabelle is constantly eating and seems very hungry compared to normal. We will also order her some milk thistle once we know what is wrong with her liver and whether it will help as we are a bit short on funds atm.
She also took X-rays of her heart but it was very tiny to see. However she says it looks ok to her. The vet says she is mostly worried about her blood tests and that she is showing muscle degeneration. She says it is good that she is eating well though. We will hopefully hear back from the vets in a few days.
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twistedtiggerz69
Mama Doe
We have heard back from the london vets. They said to monitor Lillabelle's liver to check the blood supply is still fine as otherwise she could have a liver torsion. Our vets said that as she is eating so well she is not too worried about a full torsion but rather a partial torsion (where one part of the liver blood supply is cut off I think?) so we are taking her next Friday for another ultrasound to look at the liver again and check the blood supply is still ok. Kindly the vet is offering to do the U/S for free as I think she is aware the insurance only goes so far. We will
She said she would do a CT scan but she doesn't think the insurance will go to that. We have £1200 left on insurance so we are ok for now but she then mentioned an operation to take any liver away that has lost blood supply. I guess a liver op would be expensive so we need to keep money for that in case so I don't think we can do a CT scan at this time. I don't know if we are making the right decision. It is very difficult as we don't know what else we will need to pay out for her in the future PLUS the london vets said she will need her teeth done eventually
Lillabelle continues to do well. She is eating 60 pellets a day now approximately plus 2 small bowls of Readigrass. This is extra to her diet. She also has green veggies/fresh herbs twice a day plus a forage meal of dandelion leaves, plantain and other dried herbs and flowers at night time. She is constantly eating which is great to see.
Her junior Excel pellets arrive tomorrow plus they have just had a new box of coarse Timothy hay and a new bag of Readigrass arrive today. Her milk thistle has also been ordered and is on the way.
She is continuing to do everything she can to help herself. She is a real fighter! She had her tummy shaved on two places, one on her belly and one for her heart. We can see her tiny belly which is full and round and she has put on 65g so far but she continues to feel a little skinny and is 100g less than her ideal weight of 4.7kg. However her appetite is fantastic and she comes down the hall a couple of times a night, jumps on the bed a few times and was doing zoomies earlier so she is doing well
She said she would do a CT scan but she doesn't think the insurance will go to that. We have £1200 left on insurance so we are ok for now but she then mentioned an operation to take any liver away that has lost blood supply. I guess a liver op would be expensive so we need to keep money for that in case so I don't think we can do a CT scan at this time. I don't know if we are making the right decision. It is very difficult as we don't know what else we will need to pay out for her in the future PLUS the london vets said she will need her teeth done eventually
Lillabelle continues to do well. She is eating 60 pellets a day now approximately plus 2 small bowls of Readigrass. This is extra to her diet. She also has green veggies/fresh herbs twice a day plus a forage meal of dandelion leaves, plantain and other dried herbs and flowers at night time. She is constantly eating which is great to see.
Her junior Excel pellets arrive tomorrow plus they have just had a new box of coarse Timothy hay and a new bag of Readigrass arrive today. Her milk thistle has also been ordered and is on the way.
She is continuing to do everything she can to help herself. She is a real fighter! She had her tummy shaved on two places, one on her belly and one for her heart. We can see her tiny belly which is full and round and she has put on 65g so far but she continues to feel a little skinny and is 100g less than her ideal weight of 4.7kg. However her appetite is fantastic and she comes down the hall a couple of times a night, jumps on the bed a few times and was doing zoomies earlier so she is doing well
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bunny momma
Wise Old Thumper
I heard about liver torsions and liver lobe torsions. I hope she will not need surgery.
It is positive she is eating well.
Sending vibes!
It is positive she is eating well.
Sending vibes!
twistedtiggerz69
Mama Doe
Yes it makes me angry that it could have been avoided. If they had realised she had a teeth issue and even given painkiller for her then she wouldn't have gone through a long episode of stasis.
We are looking in to the money situation and I am speaking to Inspector Morse for advice. She said we would need a CT scan to ascertain if a liver operation is needed. IM is going to speak to our vets soon hopefully and find out what is going on. We will also need another blood test done.
We don't have the money for a liver operation as it costs £2-2500 we think but I will check with our vets. We are hoping that L will be ok without a liver operation and can be managed at home but her last blood tests worry me as the CK numbers were way higher than they should be
Otherwise L continues to do everything right and she is lively and interested in everything around her and getting in to mischief in the lounge trying to find the odd dropped leaf of herbs and juicy buts of hay. She also is eating loads. Her weight stays the same so her body must be using up all the fat stores. I hope it is to get better I really do. We are praying she won't need a liver operation bless her
We are looking in to the money situation and I am speaking to Inspector Morse for advice. She said we would need a CT scan to ascertain if a liver operation is needed. IM is going to speak to our vets soon hopefully and find out what is going on. We will also need another blood test done.
We don't have the money for a liver operation as it costs £2-2500 we think but I will check with our vets. We are hoping that L will be ok without a liver operation and can be managed at home but her last blood tests worry me as the CK numbers were way higher than they should be
Otherwise L continues to do everything right and she is lively and interested in everything around her and getting in to mischief in the lounge trying to find the odd dropped leaf of herbs and juicy buts of hay. She also is eating loads. Her weight stays the same so her body must be using up all the fat stores. I hope it is to get better I really do. We are praying she won't need a liver operation bless her
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a reader of books
Warren Veteran
I just caught up on your thread, and, gosh, what a worry. You've been through so much with Lillabelle these recent weeks. I really hope she won't need an operation for her liver and that things can be managed in a different way. It's good that she is at least eating really well now, and I hope she'll manage to gain some weight. I'm sending her so, so many vibes. 
That photo is so adorable.
That photo is so adorable.
twistedtiggerz69
Mama Doe
HiI just caught up on your thread, and, gosh, what a worry. You've been through so much with Lillabelle these recent weeks. I really hope she won't need an operation for her liver and that things can be managed in a different way. It's good that she is at least eating really well now, and I hope she'll manage to gain some weight. I'm sending her so, so many vibes.
That photo is so adorable.
Lovely to hear from you. Yes it has got to crunch time really. We are monitoring her closely and she is eating so much and we have to put her in the pen a lot as she keeps doing zoomies under the bed
Inspector Morse has been helping us with Lillabelle and she said not to let her jump on the bed as her liver could twist and I don't think zoomies are the best idea either.
Lillabelle does seem to be doing very well however the vet has warned us that she could start to deteriorate again. I am worried as her recent blood tests were not good and pointed to a liver problem and when I read up on LLT it said about mini lops being more likely to get it. Well french lops are like giant mini lops really so that does worry me. My OH is denying any possibility that she is still ill but her inflamed liver can not be ignored.
The vet did mention a CT scan but I found out today we are looking at £1500 so I was a bit shocked tbh. I was thinking it would be nearer £500. It shows that I never leave the house except for the vets or the GP/hospital and life is passing me by
So a CT scan is off the cards.As I said Lils is continuing to eat well. Her coat feels all soft and looks lovely and shiny. Her eyes are bright and she is eating timothy hay atm. The signs look good now but it can very quickly change. Hopefully we will be able to manage things at home.
Yes they are so sweet together. Mischief is starting to look like an old man and everything is starting to droop bless him
His young fancy bunny still looks fabulous and he seems very happy with his lot except for the growls and pounces we get now. He has grumpy old man syndrome 
Pets mum
Wise Old Thumper
I've just caught up with your thread, am sorry to hear that the vet has concerns about Lillabelles liver, but glad that she seems well in her self. I really hope that continues. That is a beautiful photo of the pair of them, they really do look lovely together Sending lots of keep well vibes for both of your bunnies, and for you too xx
Sending lots of keep well vibes for both of your bunnies, and for you too xx
