Lillabelle not eating

[twistedtiggerz69]

Thank you so much to both of you. We are really hopeful for good blood results and we really want to stay positive however it has rocked us that the inflammation around her liver has got a little worse. The vet has told us that her recent blood work point to a partial liver lobe torsion or LLT as well which has shocked us tbh.

(I think) the ultrasound being worse could mean that the blood supply to that area is not great and that part of the liver could potentially die and twist off and a full torsion could occur. This would be life threatening due to the internal bleeding involved and she would need an emergency operation probably without a CT scan or biopsy so the risk is much greater than we thought. I hope I said that right. I heard the vet say a full torsion could occur a few times

We could probably get a CT scan and that would tell us if the blood supply to that part of the liver is good and possibly tell us how the liver looks as well. The problem being that an ultrasound is not so clear due to gas in her abdomen. This is only something we would consider IF her recent blood test shows that her liver enzymes are still abnormal and not improving.

IF her blood test is showing good changes we will just monitor her with regular blood tests and most probably ultrasounds on her liver every 6 months or something? As you rightly said Bunny Momma, we would have to get her teeth thoroughly checked every 3 months rather than every 6 months. We would need to watch her closely in case she started to go off her food as another bout of gut stasis could be disastrous.

However we have been learning all the time about bunnies (thank you BM) and Lillabelle is getting braver and more social which are all positives right now. She actually is eating so well now. My OH has gradually moved her on to some Excel Junior pellets for the extra protein and she loves them and her bowl of Readigrass. She has filled right out and is so strong. Her big eyes are really sparkling and her new winter coat is shining and soft and very thick.

Thank you Bunny Momma for giving us strength reminding us that we have been learning more about bunnies and getting to know our timid (but now back to our very feisty) Lils. Thank you Pets mum for saying what you did. These kind words mean a great deal from both of you xx

I will let you know when we get blood results back. It should be by Wednesday. That is my birthday so I really hope that brings Lillabelle some extra luck and we hear fantastic news ❤

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I also want to say that yes Inspector Morse's help and expert advice have actually helped save our two a few times now. Also though, your experience, advice and kind words have been so supportive Bunny Momma. And again to you, Pets Mum. And Omi too, especially for help on their diet. I really feel I have made true friends on Rabbits United. Everybun is so kind and also positive with their words ❤

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

We heard back from the vets with Lillabelle's blood results on Friday. Sorry I have not posted on here until now due to chronic pain. The blood test showed that Lillabelle's liver values have gone down which is good news and I was really happy to hear that.

However then my vet said her anaemia has got worse. I asked what that meant and she said she has spoken to the referral vets and they agree with my vet that this blood test along with the last ultrasound looking so angry both point to Lillabelle having a partial liver lobe torsion and there is a small bleed as a result.

I have been reading about this and the worry is that the part of the liver that has twisted could have blood flow to the lobe but reduced blood flow back out due to collapsed veins. The damaged lobe could twist back again causing a massive internal bleed as a result. This would be a life threatening emergency to try and stop the bleed but without a CT scan this would mean the vet available (possibly an out of hours emergency vet who is not rabbit savvy) would be operating blindly and it is very high risk especially as Lillabelle may not be stable.

She said we could repeat the blood test but the best scenario going forward would be to do a CT scan. She said Lillabelle is at her ideal weight now and is clinically stable and so now would be a good time to consider an operation. The referral vet is in Basildon in Essex and we would see the specialist vet who Chelina has been talking to and sending ultrasounds and blood tests to. The referral vet recommends that they do the CT scan there in Basildon and then (if needed) take her straight to theatre and remove the liver lobe that is damaged and hopefully stop the small bleed.

We knew then that Lillabelle needs this CT scan and possible operation urgently as if we leave her and just monitor her this liver lobe could twist back at any moment and we could do nothing to help her. So we have decided to proceed with the CT scan so the vet can see a much clearer 360° picture of what is actually going on and then possible surgery. They will be doing the CT scan without a GA as they do not want to anaesthetise a rabbit unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Pets mum]

I'm sorry to read this latest update, but at least you now have answers, and a plan for a way forward. Your vet does sound very much on the ball, particularly making referrals to a specialist. Sending lots of vibes for Lillabelle, she really is a lucky bun to have you caring for her. Hope you are feeling more comfortable now, sending you lots of vibes too xx

 

[bunny momma]

I am sorry to read that the vets recommend the CT scan and a possible operation. On a positive note, she is eating well and has regained the stength.she lost during her long bout with GI stasis.
I am sorry you are dealing with your own awful pain too.
Sending lots of positive vibes for you and L.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I asked the vet to let me know the costs involved and where the vet is plus whether Lillabelle would stay in the referred vets overnight and for how long. I also asked whether Mischief will be able to accompany Lillabelle and stay with her. We did read on Google that a rabbit would stay in the vets for 5-7 days after the operation and so Mischief would definitely have to go too if that is the case. They have never been apart overnight and I would be nervous of any problems with their strong bond as a result of being apart for days.

Although Mischief hates the vets and gets stressed out and fast breathes on the way to the vets each time, he soon relaxes once he gets there and Lillabelle goes and burrows her face in his fur and lies with him if she is nervous and looks at him as her bodyguard kind of. For that reason I hope we can take him as he will be supportive to Lillabelle. They both hate being in a cage though as they have a free run of our flat and start causing a racket thumping on the floor of the vets with their back feet

The costs involved as far as we know so far are £1000 for the CT scan. This is a reasonable price I think mainly due to Lillabelle not having a GA for this. I do wonder how they get Lillabelle to behave so well. I can't imagine her letting us clip her tummy let alone doing a CT scan!

Our vet said we will not need to have a biopsy done. I take it that is because they know it is a liver torsion causing the inflammation around her liver and not an infection? That does save some money though which we will definitely need. The cost of the operation is around £3000 which I thought was pretty steep however it is with a specialist vet so I can see how the costs are more. We have managed to sort out the finances so we can go ahead with the CT scan and liver operation which is a blessing.

The specialist vet is in Basildon, Essex though and from Margate in Kent it is a 3 hour train and tube ride each way which is not so great. We need to find out how long she needs to stay there but most likely Mischief will stay there as well as we have nobody to look after him and we do not want them to be apart overnight and disrupt their close bond. This means we need to take BOTH of them on this long journey. We looked at a pet stroller for them both to give them more space plus they would be together. All we can find are strollers for cats and dogs. They are made of soft material that our buns could chew through plus they usually have mesh on the sides and top. Mesh is just not suitable for bunnies imo as they can see out which means their 'predators' can see in which would make our bunnies feel vulnerable and frightened. So these usual pet strollers are a fat NO.

At the moment this means they will have to go in their individual carriers and we will have to carry them up escalators and from each station to the tube and vice versa. We thought we could possibly order a trolley like those used in airports for luggage but smaller that can transport both the carriers on as they are so heavy to carry. It also means a smoother journey for them at least rather than us having to change hands and picking them up/putting them down which is hardly smooth. Does anybody know of another idea to transport them on this long distance please? It is a long time for them to be in their carriers and not to be together on this journey which could be very stressful for them

Once we know the date of the liver operation for Lillabelle I will let everybun know. Atm Lillabelle is doing well eating her pellets and Readigrass plus plenty in her other meals. We are now giving her milk thistle of 1 ml a day mixed with grated carrot and apple and she eats this happily. I still need to check with the vet that it is ok to give her milk thistle as forgot when spoke to her last time. (Noted on my pad for questions to ask vet tomorrow). She is now 4.765kg so an increase of 0.045 kg since 22nd November which means that after having dropped her pellets slightly her weight is levelling out. We will drop her pellets slightly to try and keep her weight the same now. We are keeping the Readigrass at a handful as her poos are lovely and big and full of fibre

Just to note that Mischief put on 300g as was eating all the food that Lillabelle left when suffering with GI stasis. He has been on a diet to SLOWLY get his weight down without losing weight too quickly and causing liver lobe torsion as well. His weight was 5.390 kg on 13th November and it is now 5.255 kg so a loss again of 135g in almost 3 weeks which is perfect based on the 50g per week loss the vet advised us to aim for when we discussed their diet months ago. So we are happy with both their weights currently which is positive at least

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I'm sorry to read this latest update, but at least you now have answers, and a plan for a way forward. Your vet does sound very much on the ball, particularly making referrals to a specialist. Sending lots of vibes for Lillabelle, she really is a lucky bun to have you caring for her. Hope you are feeling more comfortable now, sending you lots of vibes too xx

Yes I agree we have a plan going forward and a CT scan will reveal any bleed into her abdomen and also check the blood supply of the veins and arteries in her liver and whether the liver lobe is healthy. At least an operation would mean the surgeon can take off the affected liver lobe and stem any bleed so then stops the lobe from untwisting and causing a bigger bleed in to her abdomen. Yes the vet is good and keeps us informed at every stage and also refers to a specialist for further advice when she is not sure. So far she does seem to know what to do even if she cannot do the operation herself. Thank you so much for your good wishes and vibes

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I am sorry to read that the vets recommend the CT scan and a possible operation. On a positive note, she is eating well and has regained the stength.she lost during her long bout with GI stasis.
I am sorry you are dealing with your own awful pain too.
Sending lots of positive vibes for you and L.

Yes it is not good news really but then it can be sorted out with surgery which is a big plus. We could easily have lost her with her long period of gut stasis. She is doing so well that it looks like she is in great health so her poorly liver does not appear to be affecting her (at the moment).

Thank you for your positive vibes again bunny momma. Yes stress always affects my pain especially in my neck and shoulder where I tense up. Lillabelle is enjoying your positive vibes right now tucking in to her forage and Timothy hay

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Another update...We agreed with our vet to refer us to a specialist vet in Basildon, Essex and we were waiting to hear from them this week. I then kept getting messages from a company called Aura saying that they are trying to get hold of me as they had a referral for a pet and I just thought it was spam or sales messages as I did not recognise the name. Then again yesterday I got a text from them and a gmail so I thought I had better ring them to find out who they are. This was about 6.30pm so I thought I would just get a voicemail so I was surprised when they answered.

It ended up that my vets had referred Lillabelle's case to them but they said they were in Guildford which was even further than Basildon. The person who answered was very helpful and said that Lillabelle was referred to them for a CT scan tomorrow at 9am (today) and possible liver lobe operation! This was just crazy as there is no way we could be ready that soon as our money is not due until Friday so we left it that we would speak to them tomorrow (today) to book a new appointment.

Then I got a call from them again yesterday evening saying that they need to book a phone call with the specialist to discuss Lillabelle and what would happen in her appointment which was fair enough I thought. After we booked a phone call time for today at 4pm she then proceeded to tell me it would cost us £320 for this call. I said 'What! For a phone call!' thinking why would we need to pay so much for this probable 5-10 minute call when they would have the case file for Lillabelle from our vets already! It is pretty straightforward really as she would initially have her CT scan and then depending on the results she could possibly have an operation to have a liver lobe removed and to stop any bleeding. It definitely felt that they were just out for the money here as we could just as easily discuss this at the appointment. Then she also said we would have to pay for half the CT scan cost as well so another £750. I was not happy about the cost of the phone call as we are already paying so much for the long trip down there plus a CT scan and a (possible) liver operation. I was very concerned about all these costs mounting up!

I then messaged Inspector Morse about this as I have been getting such knowledgeable advice about Lillabelle and she said that is not good that our vets did not tell me about a new referral to Aura vets and to complain to my vet tomorrow (as in today). Inspector Morse then recommended we go to RVC and if possible to a specialist she knew was very good with rabbits. So we looked online at the RVC and were very impressed that they were leaders in their field and in fact the world with impressive newest technology. They had a separate whole area for exotics including a waiting room especially for rabbits and a section for rabbits to stay in when booked for procedures and overnight stay. It is also much easier to travel to in Camden. It made perfect sense to go there instead.

I rang my vets today to say I was not impressed that nobody had contacted me to tell me about the new referral to Aura vets as it was embarrassing. Also it was not good to be told we had a scan booked for Lillabelle for the next day at 9am and it was impossible to make this appointment. I asked who had done the referral and asked why we were not told about this. The receptionist was very apologetic and said it was in fact our vet that had done the referral and not told us. I was very disappointed to say the least. I asked if our vet was in today but she was not in until tomorrow. I then explained that I would prefer that Lil's be referred to RVC in London so asked if he do this but he said that we need it agreed by our vet so I left a message for our vets to ring us tomorrow. Hopefully she will be fine about us wanting to go to RVC instead and would agree to the referral.

Other than that Lillabelle continues to do really well. She is eating better than ever but unfortunately her amazing food intake means she wants to do binkies and zoomies and jump on the bed multiple times a day. Inspector Morse said we need to stop her jumping on the bed as it could cause her liver lobe to untwist. I have been reading up on liver lobe torsion and if the lobe untwists fatal toxins and waste products that have built up in the twisted lobe could flood in to her body which would be catastrophic.

We have taken her good advice to use puppy panels around the bed to stop Lillabelle jumping on the bed however it also means they can't go under the bed to chill out in their favourite spot. Mischief has been bulldozing the panels away and is causing them to fall over and we are worried the panels will fall on them. We can't attach them properly as the panels are too big to go around the bed properly. Also we can't get out of bed easily especially me as I am pretty cumbersome these days! We gave up and have been putting them in their puppy pen before their meal times as that is when Lillabelle jumps on the bed telling us it is time to be fed. So that was going great until today when Mischief worked out he could lift the door of the pen up with his head and knock the door off it's hinges

So now my OH is trying to fix the door on to the hinges with tape so Chief can't take the door off! It is never dull with these lovely bunnies

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Also a quick note to say we have realised that the bunnies could not cope with a train journey and tubes especially at 5.30am when all the commuters are travelling as it would be ultra noisy. Instead we are going to get a taxi to London which will cost twice as much but we cannot risk our bunnies getting stressed out and hot on busy transport. I expect everybun have already thought this but have been too polite to say so you will be happy that we have decided to go by taxi instead

 

[Pets mum]

Sorry that you've had to deal with all this, can't believe the cost of that phone call, when you didn't even involve them in the first place. Anyway, that apart, I hope you get the referral to RVC, and they can help Lillabelle. Had to smile at Mischief's antics with the pen, as you say "never a dull moment"

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Sorry that you've had to deal with all this, can't believe the cost of that phone call, when you didn't even involve them in the first place. Anyway, that apart, I hope you get the referral to RVC, and they can help Lillabelle. Had to smile at Mischief's antics with the pen, as you say "never a dull moment"

Thank you Pets mum. Yes hopefully I hear from my vet today and she agrees to the referral.

My OH has taped the door on the pen and so far it has kept them inside the pen. We shall see

 

[bunny momma]

I am sorry you had to deal with so much confusion about the vet referral and their expectation of an outlandish amount of money for a phone consult and a down payment.
You are blessed that Inspector Morse was able to help you obtain a better option for a vet . I hope your vet will expedite the referral to RVC.
Mischief certainly earned his name!! I hope your OH is able to fix the door so he cannot lift it.
Sending vibes for Lillabelle.

 

[joey&boo]

Sending you all lots of vibes - you've so much to juggle with finances, travel, houdini bunnies & the worry about Lillabelle's liver
I don't know much about pet taxis / ambulances but maybe worth exploring sometime