Chief is breathing noisily again! U/d June, eye issues now too

[twistedtiggerz69]

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

These were taken last week. You can see where Chief's eyes is still quite sore

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Chief eating his green hay

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Both of them passed out yesterday for their snooze time

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I have videos to upload once I work it out Sorry the photos aren't that great

 

[InspectorMorse]

Chief has entropian which is why he keeps getting sore eyes

Entropion - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

French Lops have a congenital predisposition to the problem.

‘’Two year old French lop rabbit suffering from entropion (red arrow) and eye lashes falling on the cornea, accompanied by secondary dacryocystitis (green arrow). This condition can cause damage to the cornea and can be corrected surgically.’’



Full text http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Eye_diseases/Differential/Corneal_ulcers.htm

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Oh no really? I asked the vet to check his eyes when Lillabelle had her spay. How could he have missed that?

So just to clarify, this is where the eyelid turns inwards and eyelashes touch his eye? That must be so painful

I will have a look and see if I can take photos so you can see how bad it is.

Is this a big op then? To correct it I mean?
He will need his teeth done before long as well. He had his burrs done last year and then again 6 weeks ago they said there was a slight burr so maybe we will be insured for his teeth.

I will need to check with Agria insurance to find out if he is insured for this as well. He has had eye drops for discharge in his eye. No vet has said about this up until now. I'm absolutely gutted he needs this done.

We will ask a vet to take a look on Tuesday and see if we can book him in on the 8th. We won't be able to pay for this until the 8th and maybe insurance will cover it. Maybe not. But he obviously needs this done asap. We could probably get his teeth done at the same time as his eye or eyes.

Can you see if it is in both eyes Inspector Morse? I am sending you some photos now. Unfortunately he squeezes his left eye shut when we go near and I can't get him to open them so it may be hard for you to see.

Right eye...

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Left eye...

I tried my best to hold his left eye open for you to see but he is having none of it

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Chief has entropian which is why he keeps getting sore eyes

Entropion - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

French Lops have a congenital predisposition to the problem.

‘’Two year old French lop rabbit suffering from entropion (red arrow) and eye lashes falling on the cornea, accompanied by secondary dacryocystitis (green arrow). This condition can cause damage to the cornea and can be corrected surgically.’’

View attachment 2103

Full text http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Eye_diseases/Differential/Corneal_ulcers.htm

I realise you said this to me before and I just thought it can't be that as the vet has checked his eyes. I wasn't ignoring what you said. I will have a look at what is involved to correct them. Hopefully it hasn't damaged his eyes at all. It doesn't give me much faith in our vets considering one of their rabbit savvy vets looked at his eyes last time. So did the PDSA. Is this a common problem then?

My last bun had weepy eyes and we were constantly getting her eyes checked. I am wondering if she had it too

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Could you tell me where the problem lies please Jane? Is it the upper or lower eyelids and can you tell if it is in both eyes from the photos please? I read up on what you sent me and it says it can be caused by something and this could be a secondary problem and the primary reason needs to be fixed and wonder how you know what that is.

I'm feeling really anxious about this as I am worried his eyes may be damaged. No wonder he has been flinching when I try to do his eyes. I feel so bad now saying it could be him being an old man

Is this something that can be fixed if his eyes are damaged as well? Is there any more information you could send me on this please IM? I feel I need to be educated on this so I can discuss this with the vet and actually understand it a bit. I questioned the vet last time about the dose of Loxicom to give Lillabelle and ended up wrong which was embarrassing. I am probably going to be named as one of their 'difficult' customers!

Sorry if I am repeating myself. Not having a great night and now this as well. This is all not helping my MH as now worrying about him suffering as it hurts so much as well as everything else

So much for thinking they were both doing well. I can't believe all the vets have missed this!

 

[InspectorMorse]

Sorry, I didn’t intend to make everything 100 times worse for you, but I cannot understand how a Vet could not identify the problem. It’s pretty obvious. Both of Chief’s eyes are affected, both upper and lower eye lids. In dogs it’s quite common in the Shar Pei breed In Rabbits French Lops. He has no doubt had it from birth, but it’s worsened as he’s aged. If it occurs as a congenital problem the Breeder should NOT continue the breed line. If they continue the line they are condemning all future ‘stock’ to potential suffering. Even if the line has achieved show standard aesthetics it’s never acceptable and is totally unethical to continue the line if a known congenital health problem has occurred.

Personally I would not waste any more money consulting a Vet with only very basic knowledge about Rabbits. Every consultation will cost money but the actual problem isn’t being addressed. In Chief’s case it would seem that it hasn’t even been noticed A false economy really. So I would consult a Veterinary ophthalmologist. For example

https://eyevetcare.co.uk/pet-owners/

You can approach them yourself, you don’t have to ask the PDSA Vet about it.

The PDSA can only provide basic health care as they are a charity. But they should refer cases that the PDSA cannot subsidise on to another Vet care provider. Or discuss an ethical and affordable way to manage the Rabbit’s condition without curing it. To enable the Rabbit to have an acceptable QOL. Thousands of people will be in the position of not being able to fund costly specialist Vet Care and the PDSA have a duty of care to try to come up with a way to enable the specific problem to be medically managed. This approach might even be what a person who could afford specialist treatment opts to do if they feel surgical intervention is not in the best interests of their Rabbit. I opted not to have major ear surgery performed on Inspector Morse as he had many other health problems too. The ‘Gold Star’ treatment for his chronic ear disease would not have been in his best interests.

I don’t think it will be helpful for me to bombard you with a lot of clinical information about Entropian as you are clearly already very distressed. The best way forward, IMO, would be to try to arrange a consultation with a Veterinary Opthalmologist. They should be able to carry out a full assessment of Chief’s specific eye problem, exactly how it is effecting him, if he has any corneal ulceration for example. Each case needs to be assessed individually. Then they should discuss the treatment options, ALL of them not just the ‘Gold Star’ type but if a palliative care approach is an ethical option. If the latter were to be possible the PDSA might be able to provide it as it would mostly be prescribing medication such as eye drops, analgesia etc.

Again, I apologise for causing you so much distress. That certainly wasn’t my intention

 

[Omi]

Sorry, I didn’t intend to make everything 100 times worse for you, but I cannot understand how a Vet could not identify the problem. It’s pretty obvious. Both of Chief’s eyes are affected, both upper and lower eye lids. In dogs it’s quite common in the Shar Pei breed In Rabbits French Lops. He has no doubt had it from birth, but it’s worsened as he’s aged. If it occurs as a congenital problem the Breeder should NOT continue the breed line. If they continue the line they are condemning all future ‘stock’ to potential suffering. Even if the line has achieved show standard aesthetics it’s never acceptable and is totally unethical to continue the line if a known congenital health problem has occurred.

Personally I would not waste any more money consulting a Vet with only very basic knowledge about Rabbits. Every consultation will cost money but the actual problem isn’t being addressed. In Chief’s case it would seem that it hasn’t even been noticed A false economy really. So I would consult a Veterinary ophthalmologist. For example

https://eyevetcare.co.uk/pet-owners/

You can approach them yourself, you don’t have to ask the PDSA Vet about it.

The PDSA can only provide basic health care as they are a charity. But they should refer cases that the PDSA cannot subsidise on to another Vet care provider. Or discuss an ethical and affordable way to manage the Rabbit’s condition without curing it. To enable the Rabbit to have an acceptable QOL. Thousands of people will be in the position of not being able to fund costly specialist Vet Care and the PDSA have a duty of care to try to come up with a way to enable the specific problem to be medically managed. This approach might even be what a person who could afford specialist treatment opts to do if they feel surgical intervention is not in the best interests of their Rabbit. I opted not to have major ear surgery performed on Inspector Morse as he had many other health problems too. The ‘Gold Star’ treatment for his chronic ear disease would not have been in his best interests.

I don’t think it will be helpful for me to bombard you with a lot of clinical information about Entropian as you are clearly already very distressed. The best way forward, IMO, would be to try to arrange a consultation with a Veterinary Opthalmologist. They should be able to carry out a full assessment of Chief’s specific eye problem, exactly how it is effecting him, if he has any corneal ulceration for example. Each case needs to be assessed individually. Then they should discuss the treatment options, ALL of them not just the ‘Gold Star’ type but if a palliative care approach is an ethical option. If the latter were to be possible the PDSA might be able to provide it as it would mostly be prescribing medication such as eye drops, analgesia etc.

Again, I apologise for causing you so much distress. That certainly wasn’t my intention

I also don't want to make things worse for you, as I imagine you are feeling quite bad about Chief's eyes at the moment

So I will be blunt, but I hope you will be able to appreciate that I am posting, because I feel upset about Chief's eyes and because I do think that sometimes, when you are feeling as anxious as you obviously are, it's helpful for someone, who hasn't been involved with this thread very much and this issue in particular, to advise what I feel you should do next. I'm posting because I am concerned about Chief's eyes.

I think that there are several issues going on with your bunnies atm, mostly Chief though. His eye issue is by far the most important in my view (others may disagree). I would plan how you can get this sorted asap, ideally taking advice from Jane's post above. It must be so distressing for him. I would continue with trying to get them both to lose weight, but this can be done alongside anything else and doesn't require much input from you, apart from what you are already doing. Chief doesn't sound to me like a bunny who is going to need a dental soon, as he isn't showing any symptoms. The fact that he's had spurs previously may not be relevant and indeed if he is eating more hay, he might never need another dental. Then there are his respiratory issues, which I know you are monitoring.

So, if I were you I would discount any thoughts that Chief has been grumpy etc. In my view he needs treatment from a competent vet.

And you can disregard this if you feel it's out of order, but in future, if I were you I would reserve threads in Health for things that are relevant to Health. Some people will tend to pay serious attention to threads in Health, which are mostly about health-related issues. Some will ignore text, which could perhaps be more relevant to Rabbit Chat. I hope you can understand this comment in the spirit that it is made. I am purely thinking about Chief and his eyes.

I really hope that you are able to get some help for Chief's eyes and send him my best wishes.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Sorry, I didn’t intend to make everything 100 times worse for you, but I cannot understand how a Vet could not identify the problem. It’s pretty obvious. Both of Chief’s eyes are affected, both upper and lower eye lids. In dogs it’s quite common in the Shar Pei breed In Rabbits French Lops. He has no doubt had it from birth, but it’s worsened as he’s aged. If it occurs as a congenital problem the Breeder should NOT continue the breed line. If they continue the line they are condemning all future ‘stock’ to potential suffering. Even if the line has achieved show standard aesthetics it’s never acceptable and is totally unethical to continue the line if a known congenital health problem has occurred.

Personally I would not waste any more money consulting a Vet with only very basic knowledge about Rabbits. Every consultation will cost money but the actual problem isn’t being addressed. In Chief’s case it would seem that it hasn’t even been noticed A false economy really. So I would consult a Veterinary ophthalmologist. For example

https://eyevetcareu.co.uk/pet-owners/

You can approach them yourself, you don’t have to ask the PDSA Vet about it.

The PDSA can only provide basic health care as they are a charity. But they should refer cases that the PDSA cannot subsidise on to another Vet care provider. Or discuss an ethical and affordable way to manage the Rabbit’s condition without curing it. To enable the Rabbit to have an acceptable QOL. Thousands of people will be in the position of not being able to fund costly specialist Vet Care and the PDSA have a duty of care to try to come up with a way to enable the specific problem to be medically managed. This approach might even be what a person who could afford specialist treatment opts to do if they feel surgical intervention is not in the best interests of their Rabbit. I opted not to have major ear surgery performed on Inspector Morse as he had many other health problems too. The ‘Gold Star’ treatment for his chronic ear disease would not have been in his best interests.

I don’t think it will be helpful for me to bombard you with a lot of clinical information about Entropian as you are clearly already very distressed. The best way forward, IMO, would be to try to arrange a consultation with a Veterinary Opthalmologist. They should be able to carry out a full assessment of Chief’s specific eye problem, exactly how it is effecting him, if he has any corneal ulceration for example. Each case needs to be assessed individually. Then they should discuss the treatment options, ALL of them not just the ‘Gold Star’ type but if a palliative care approach is an ethical option. If the latter were to be possible the PDSA might be able to provide it as it would mostly be prescribing medication such as eye drops, analgesia etc.

Again, I apologise for causing you so much distress. That certainly wasn’t my intention

Firstly Jane you don't have to apologize for me being distressed. It was late at night and I'm sure you will agree that pain can often be at it's worst and so emotions run high when you sit there on your own dealing with this. And yes I am very distressed that this has been missed countless times by different vets when we tell them his eyes are causing him issues and to think he has had to deal with this pain for 5 and a half years is equally distressing. However Chief's health and comfort are top priority. I am truly thankful that you have told me so we can move forward to find the best treatment for him.

I also apologise for not seeming like I was listening to you when you originally suggested he had entropian of his eyes. I honestly thought that you were saying we should get his eyes checked for this as it is common for french lops NOT that he actually had it. I thought the vet had checked his eyes and so he would not have it. It is so difficult when I don't know a lot. I am relying on our vets to tell us. I would never have left it if I thought he had this problem. So yes I feel very guilty for saying he was just being a grumpy old man. He is definitely grumpy but more than likely it is his eyes

Also, we did not get Chief from a breeder. We got him from a family who had a family pet rabbit and she had her first litter. The mum and babies were living in a massive run in the garden in the day and a shed at night and were obviously loved by the family. Lillabelle is from a local breeder as we could not find a french lop locally who needed adoption. We will certainly look at adopting in the future.

So the first thing we did was look up eye vets near us from the link you gave us. The local places were in Canterbury and surprise surprise our actual vets!

To clarify...we were advised years ago by PDSA to go to a rabbit savvy vet in the area for Chief when he had his lung infection. So we are registered with PDSA for the basic care needs of them both as it is in walking distance from us and when money is tight we go there to get painkillers or for possible gut stasis etc when it will be less distressing for them to just carry them there a maximum 10 minute walk and is affordable for us.

We are also registered with Briar House vets in Broadstairs as our more rabbit savvy vets. They are a 20 minute taxi ride from us and are the most rabbit savvy vet we could find in our area. We went there for Chief's lung infection and also for his lump that needed to be removed. And for both their neutering and spaying. We also go there now to see Megan the vet nurse for their weigh ins and dietary advice (although we tend to go with the advice from those on RU for help with their diet) and most of their health issues.

So I rang Briar House and the receptionist told me that they don't have an eye specialist there on site but they can refer us to the other office in Canterbury but it is best to go the referral route and then they can go directly to Agria to sort out the insurance and we just need to get him there. That may mean we will have the initial consultancy fee covered with our insurance (fingers crossed).

So we cancelled our appointment with Megan the vet nurse for their weigh in check on Tuesday and changed it to seeing the most rabbit savvy vet they have on Monday at 5.30pm. The vet can then check his eyes over and refer us on. We can also get their weigh ins done with him so that seemed to be the best option. Also this vet actually works at the Canterbury office every Wednesday so maybe he can get us booked in there quickly. And this also means they do not have to go to the vets two days running.

If however he does not agree that Chief does indeed have entropian then we will go directly to Canterbury instead. It is a long journey for them to go to Canterbury office. We need to decide what way is best. It would either be a taxi to the train station and a train then a long walk and the same back or a taxi there and back which will be expensive. We will look into that nearer the time.

Also they are both insured with Agria insurance and our vets can deal with the insurance directly for us. However we firstly have to find out if Chief is insured for this. It has never been diagnosed with a vet as you know but it is whether they feel that him having eye drops in the past means his eyes are not covered at all. Do you think Agria insurance could still cover this please? I have never used pet insurance before so not sure what happens.

We can afford the trips to Canterbury and even a fairly expensive initial fee for his first consultancy with the eye specialist but we can't afford to pay for an eye op as we looked up that it costs between £1200-£2000 for this. So if the insurance does not cover this the only thing we can do is palliative care as you say and it may be the best decision for Chief as he is getting older now anyway.

But we firstly need to find out how bad his actual eyes are and go from there.

Please don't feel bad that you upset me. I am so thankful I have you to speak to about all their health worries. In future I think it would be best if you just tell me from the word go what you think so I get it. I do have trouble with my brain since my stroke and I am rather slow on the uptake. I would rather that you told me as I may not pick up on hints that they have health issues. Even if you just talk to me on pm that will be fine with me. We both decided soon after you told us that the only way forward is for him to see an eye specialist asap and get him the help whatever is needed.

Please don't worry about me. Chief is what is important here and you are only thinking of his best interests here x

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I also don't want to make things worse for you, as I imagine you are feeling quite bad about Chief's eyes at the moment

So I will be blunt, but I hope you will be able to appreciate that I am posting, because I feel upset about Chief's eyes and because I do think that sometimes, when you are feeling as anxious as you obviously are, it's helpful for someone, who hasn't been involved with this thread very much and this issue in particular, to advise what I feel you should do next. I'm posting because I am concerned about Chief's eyes.

I think that there are several issues going on with your bunnies atm, mostly Chief though. His eye issue is by far the most important in my view (others may disagree). I would plan how you can get this sorted asap, ideally taking advice from Jane's post above. It must be so distressing for him. I would continue with trying to get them both to lose weight, but this can be done alongside anything else and doesn't require much input from you, apart from what you are already doing. Chief doesn't sound to me like a bunny who is going to need a dental soon, as he isn't showing any symptoms. The fact that he's had spurs previously may not be relevant and indeed if he is eating more hay, he might never need another dental. Then there are his respiratory issues, which I know you are monitoring.

So, if I were you I would discount any thoughts that Chief has been grumpy etc. In my view he needs treatment from a competent vet.

And you can disregard this if you feel it's out of order, but in future, if I were you I would reserve threads in Health for things that are relevant to Health. Some people will tend to pay serious attention to threads in Health, which are mostly about health-related issues. Some will ignore text, which could perhaps be more relevant to Rabbit Chat. I hope you can understand this comment in the spirit that it is made. I am purely thinking about Chief and his eyes.

I really hope that you are able to get some help for Chief's eyes and send him my best wishes.

Yes I agree it is Chief that is what is important here, not worrying that I could be upset about this. Although I do appreciate that you are both clearly worried that I am distressed. Yes of course I am upset. And also very angry that he has possibly suffered for years as the vets all missed it! I have been to both PDSA and the other 'rabbit savvy' vets countless times about his sore eyes.

I do agree with you that his eyes are most important at this moment in time as it would cause him great discomfort and also I feel his eyesight is not as good as it used to be. I also feel that his eyes look different somehow. It all makes sense now. So firstly we will get him an appointment with an eye specialist as soon as we can.

We also need to buy new scales for them as they are broken somehow and we are seeing the rabbit savvy vet (who actually owns rabbits) on Monday for his eyes and I checked that they can weigh them as well. We can get his teeth checked at the same time. We have Agria insurance who cover rabbits for dentals but I don't know if they will cover him if he has already had a dental. Our vets can find out about all of this for us I believe.

I'm not 100% sure if we are doing the best thing taking him to our local vets first so the vet can check his eyes and refer him to their twin office but that is what the receptionist recommended so costs don't stack up with the eye consultancy for his initial visit. As I said to Jane, we have never dealt with pet insurance before so any help with this is appreciated. But we can go directly if our vets does not agree that he has entropian of the eye. I apologise if I say all this wrong

If there are other health issues with them I would prefer it if I was told so I can look into the available treatment for them. If there are other things that have not been explained to me then feel free to tell me them.

Yes if course I discount him as being just grumpy. I feel terrible for saying that and hate that he is in pain and has been possibly all his life. I feel very guilty and also anxious that he gets the best care with the best vet we can afford. We insure them as we are on benefits and we can't afford to pay huge vet bills. All of our spare money goes on them and we may have to spend less on something to afford their best care. This may be something like not buying 3 types of hay and cutting out their soft meadow hay and just getting the courser meadow hay and the green hay which is better for their teeth. Or perhaps not get their fresh willow regularly but keep it as a treat. But all of these things we can afford at present. I am just saying that finances may need to be managed better if needed.

I truly apologise for posting in the wrong sections. This post did indeed start as a health issue but then has turned in to a really long thread with lots of what you say is 'rabbit chat' I know that I also write long posts and that a lot of that is not relevant to health. I am replying to those that post back but I know I can waffle and I will try to keep the posts shorter and make them relevant to the sections so for example I could move the subject of their weigh ins to the diet and digestion (or whatever the section is called as I can't remember).

Thank you Omi. Both yourself and Jane have only ever helped me understand rabbits better and helped save Chief's life through your valued opinions.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I again apologise for my long posts. I try to be careful but I still seem to make them too long

I think it is best if I start new threads for both Chief and his eye problem in the health section and their weights and diet in the appropriate diet and digestion section and I keep the posts related to these subjects specifically to the thread involved.

 

[tulsi]

Lovely to see how much you care about your rabbits. Lots of eye soothing vibes for Chief.

 

[InspectorMorse]

The animal trust might be an option for surgery if that is the route you pursue.

Affordable Vet Care Prices | Animal Trust Vets

Explore transparent pricing for veterinary services at Animal Trust, including our Complications Promise, ensuring affordable care for your pet.

www.animaltrust.org.uk

Chronic pasteurella infection might be an aggravating factor for his eyes, given his history of RTIs and ear infections.

As was the case for Inspector Morse, sometimes surgical intervention and cure of a health problem is not a viable option. Careful consideration will be needed with regards to GA risks for a Rabbit with a known compromised lung function. Palliative care might be more appropriate

.His ears need to be checked again during his examination.You have mentioned using an ear cleaning solution. With lop eared Rabbits sometimes this can inadvertently get into the eyes, another possible aggravating factor to consider.Any bacteria in the ears could also get transferred into the eyes.

The eye examination should include using a fluorescein dye stain test to check for any corneal ulceration caused by eyelashes rubbing on the eyeballs.

https://www.eyevet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/autumn_09_web.pdf

Swabs should be taken to identify any bacterial involvement, the type of bacteria and the most appropriate abx to treat it

Ongoing daily pain relief is essential, no exceptions on this one.

I would have opted to go straight to an Opthalmic Specialist Vet, but thats just my personal opinion

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Lovely to see how much you care about your rabbits. Lots of eye soothing vibes for Chief.

Thank you so much

Yes Chief has been getting extra lots of love and cuddles and of course Lillabelle. (Well not cuddles as she hates being picked up.) 🩵🩷

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

The animal trust might be an option for surgery if that is the route you pursue.

Affordable Vet Care Prices | Animal Trust Vets

Explore transparent pricing for veterinary services at Animal Trust, including our Complications Promise, ensuring affordable care for your pet.

www.animaltrust.org.uk

Chronic pasteurella infection might be an aggravating factor for his eyes, given his history of RTIs and ear infections.

As was the case for Inspector Morse, sometimes surgical intervention and cure of a health problem is not a viable option. Careful consideration will be needed with regards to GA risks for a Rabbit with a known compromised lung function. Palliative care might be more appropriate

.His ears need to be checked again during his examination.You have mentioned using an ear cleaning solution. With lop eared Rabbits sometimes this can inadvertently get into the eyes, another possible aggravating factor to consider.Any bacteria in the ears could also get transferred into the eyes.

The eye examination should include using a fluorescein dye stain test to check for any corneal ulceration caused by eyelashes rubbing on the eyeballs.

https://www.eyevet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/autumn_09_web.pdf

Swabs should be taken to identify any bacterial involvement, the type of bacteria and the most appropriate abx to treat it

Ongoing daily pain relief is essential, no exceptions on this one.

I would have opted to go straight to an Opthalmic Specialist Vet, but thats just my personal opinion

Thanks for this Jane.

Yes we were in two minds what to do actually. The receptionist said if we get a referral from the vets we may not have to pay up front for the opthalmic specialist but the concern is that the vet may not see that Chief has a problem anyway. If that is the case we will have to refer ourselves. We can do that with just filling out a referral form apparently as we read about it on Google.

We were going to take them for a weigh in on Tuesday anyway so we just changed it to see the exotic pet specialist and get them weighed as well. So it is still just the one trip to the vets either way and will cost us £30 to see the vets which we are happy to pay for him.

I will write down what I need to ask about and I can mention his history as well. We are very concerned about Chief needing a long op as he has a slight rasping when breathing plus he is getting old for a Frenchie. I presume it will be longer than a teeth op If they have to do both eyes and upper/lower lids? Also he may have ulceration of the eye. Can that be fixed? I did read that If they have an op for the entropian then the ulcers will go in time once the eyelids are fixed. Is that the case possibly? If the specialist sees it as being too risky and palliative care is the safer option AND he can be made comfortable with analgesic and the right eye drops then we will go with that.

My only concern is how much pain he is in and whether it will cause him to lose his sight. He has been scanning more however he can nimbly run through all the toys and stuff on the floor so he can see to some degree at least. We just want him to have his last few years feeling the best possible so that is our only concern other than the financial side. However thank you for the link to the animal trust. We will look into it if needed. Do you think that Agria will refuse our claim if he has had eye drops due to redness and bloodshot eyes and eye infections then? I know you can't know for sure but I have no clue about pet insurance.

When you say about the ear cleaner and possible bacteria in the eye do you mean it goes through his tubes? Or if he cleans his ears? Sorry if I seem a bit slow! Should I leave giving him this for now then? His wax is still there. Chief absolutely hates it and the problem is that it says on the instructions to wipe off the excess but Chief's ears are too long to reach his ear canal. Is there another option to this maybe?

Even if bacteria is transferred and causes eye redness or even an infection surely he will still have this entropian? Are you saying that the bacteria/ear cleaner could exasperate the problem? Sorry I am double checking to make sure I get this right.

Yes we will ask about all of these recommendations and I can write down all that you say to prepare us for the specialist visit.

Either way we will take him to the specialist. I guess it would be better if the vets referred us as far as the insurance is concerned as the vet can sort the insurance directly to them and it would relieve the stress of money at least. However I am now not sure what to do. I am just worried about a big consultancy fee upfront and the travel costs only to have to do it again soon after. Unfortunately we just used our savings to get a new (well second hand) washing machine as the other one packed up. Plus my son comes over from Prague next week and we are meeting him in London twice! I haven't seen him in a year! As usual the timing is the worst.

I am praying that insurance will cover it from the start so finances are not an issue here, only what is best for Chief. He will get the best care that we can do. I just hate that he could have suffered with this for years

Thank you so much Jane. Your knowledge has helped Chief once again like you help so many other bunnies

 

[InspectorMorse]

I will have to respond in a ‘bullet point’ tone only because I am in a lot of chronic pain. Please don’t think I am being hostile

Personal unqualified opinion- ALL of his heath problems are primarily due to him being brachycephalic (flat faced) and Lop eared. Brachycephalic Rabbits suffer in the same way as Brachy’ Dogs and Cats. The unnatural formation of their skull making them prone to respiratory tract disease, various eye diseases, dental problems.

Flat-faced Pets | Common Health Issues | RSPCA - RSPCA - rspca.org.uk

It's important that you're aware of the common health issues that Brachycephalic breeds face if you own or are considering buying one.

www.rspca.org.uk

Anatomical evaluation of brachycephalism in cats and rabbits - The Veterinary Nurse

Brachycephalic animals can be identified by their distinctive skull shape with a high cephalic index. Cat breeds affected by extreme brachycephaly include Exotic Shorthairs, Himalayans and Persians. The author notes that there is currently more research on Persians than other breeds, but...

www.theveterinarynurse.com

Policy Statements

Explore our policy statements on rabbit welfare. Stay informed about our advocacy efforts and commitment to improving the lives of rabbits. Learn more

rabbitwelfare.co.uk

Lops are very prone to ear infections/abscesses

https://www.unusualpetvets.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/lop-eared-rabbits-and-ear-disease.pdf

Rabbit Ear Disease at RVC Exotics

www.rvc.ac.uk

Ear Disease Lop Ear Rabbits

The NZ Bunny Vet – Auckland based small pet veterinarian with a special interest in rabbits, guinea pigs, chinchillas, rats, mice, reptiles and amphibians.

bunnyvet.co.nz

Priority - Start *pain relief* immediately, Chief’s eyes will be painful. Hence he’s become so grumpy.

Re his ears- I suspect there is chronic infection present, probably pus under the wax -Otitis Externa.
You might be able to feel a lump at each ear base, under his ears. If you can this is probably a walled off ear base abscess.

The transfer of bacteria from ears to eyes could occur via stray ear cleaner fluid getting into his eyes and/ or systemically. Pasteurellosis can affect multiple sites. The infection won’t cause entropian, it will exacerbate it though.

*WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGES ON THIS LINK*

Pasteurella (Snuffles) in Rabbits: Cause, Symptoms & Treatment

Learn about Pasteurella (snuffles) disease in rabbits, including symptoms, diagnosis, and treatment options. Discover how this chronic respiratory illness affects rabbits.

lbah.com

If he has a GA skull radiographs will be needed to assess his tooth roots, the possibility of infection in his middle ear (Otitis Media), also chest Xray. He could have micro abscessation of his lungs by now.

The *POSSIBILITY* of all of the above mentioned problems need to be discussed in full with a Rabbit Savvy Vet prior to deciding how to proceed re the entropian.

Re entropian- the degree it will have effected him at first could have been minimal. The defect varies in severity. But repeated infections and aging will lead to a worsening of the entropian as the eye lids become thickened

Corneal ulceration can be treated in various ways depending on cause, severity and response to treatments tried. If the ulceration has been present for a long time permanent sight loss is likely. Chiefs scanning is likely to be due to him have little eyesight left. Plus his eyes are almost closed up much of the time.

Medirabbit

My UNQUALIFIED gut feeling is that palliative care would be the most likely option for Chief. This would include longterm systemic and topical antibiotics- ie given orally/by injection, by eye drops, by ear drops. GOOD PAIN RELIEF DAILY- absolutely NO exception to giving pain relief.
Careful eye cleaning daily and the use of a barrier ointment around his eyes to try to protect the delicate skin.

All of the above would mean a lot of hands on care every day for the rest of his life.If this were to cause a lot of distress to Chief QOL assessment must be made. Some Rabbits cope just fine with a lot of hands on care, IM did. But some just don’t.

Re Agria, you need to read ALL of the small print in the Ts+Cs. Unfortunately they *might* try to state that entropian was a pre-existing condition, which to be fair it was. But you didn’t deliberately withhold the information when you took out the policy. You didn’t know he had it because apparently no Vet has ever noticed (still trying to get my head around that one)

EDITED TO ADD- If Chief is currently not on any pain relief at all I would call the Vet where he will be being seen on Tuesday to ask if you can start him on Metacam TODAY as he should not be without analgesic cover until Tuesday.

I CANNOT advise you to use them, but to try to help soothe his sore eyes as an addition to the essential Metacam I would also ask your Vet if you can use these.

Amazon.co.uk

The sooner Chief is having some sort of pain/discomfort relief the better, IMO