Chief is breathing noisily again! U/d June, eye issues now too

[InspectorMorse]

I know it’s easy to say ‘don’t overthink everything’ but try not to get even more stressed as that will just make everything harder for you. My Vet friend gives me a firm talking to when I go into panic mode and think of all the worst case scenarios !
You already know that Mischief has chronic RT problems. Flare ups are bound to happen. But a few sneezes do not necessarily mean he is having another flare up. My brachy Nethie, Dara, has a chronic sneezy nose. Every single day. She gets a watery discharge too. She only has treatment if signs of active infection occur. She’s 5 now and has only needed 2 courses of abx in that time. Her snotty sneeziness can never be ‘cured’ because of her flat face.

If only breeders knew the harm breeding for looks not health can do. I think many do know, but chose to put looks before health

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I only have three Rabbits now. And yes, it is a huge struggle to manage their care with my disabilities. I won’t be able to have any more Rabbits. For me a life without Rabbits doesn’t bear thinking about. So I try not to !


Yes, I too hope that the vet that you see today will be Rabbit Savvy.

That makes me very sad that you won't be able to have any more bunnies. Hopefully the buns you have will last for years to come so you have them to look after.

Before I met my OH (Phil) I had terrible neck pain due to one of my discs wearing away. I got put on more and more morphine from my old GP as an op was not possible and ended up being put on fentanyl patches (50 micrograms). I spent 2 years almost bed ridden but I had a french lop called Misty. She was huge! I can't remember her weight as I only got her weighed at the vets but she was easily a half of Mischief's size again.

I said earlier that Chief is my soul bunny however I am very lucky to have had 2 soul bunnies in my life. She adored me and I her. She got me out of bed every day to feed her and clean her litter tray etc. And when I had no heating in the winter I used to snuggle up with her under the duvet and she kept me lovely and warm.

I know you are in terrible pain every day but it is obvious to me that your bunnies and Morse the dog give you so much joy and they also give you a reason to get up every day just like I had when I was in pain. I was terribly depressed but Misty got me through that time and your gorgeous animals help you do the same I'm sure.

I wish I could wave a magic wand and make you pain free but your pets and Rabbits United keep you going I think and you help so many bunnies on here as well, and you do in fact save a bunnies life like you did Chief's. I will never forget all you have done for Chief as having these extra years with him have made my world. My bunnies keep me busy and something positive to keep me going. My cuddles with Chief really help my pain. His soft fur on my face actually help my face pain perhaps by bringing my stress levels down? I don't know why but he really does help my pain.

You really do help all of us so much. I know you say you are not a vet and of course your advice should always be taken along side a vet, not instead. But take it from me, you are a very special person helping all these buns every day along with looking after your own menagerie. Thank you on behalf of my two. We would not have Lillabelle if it wasn't for you and others on Rabbits United and you have given us so many happy times with Mischief and Lillabelle. If they could talk they would be singing your praises so I am speaking on behalf of them doing the same. Thank you Jane for everything you do

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I know it’s easy to say ‘don’t overthink everything’ but try not to get even more stressed as that will just make everything harder for you. My Vet friend gives me a firm talking to when I go into panic mode and think of all the worst case scenarios !
You already know that Mischief has chronic RT problems. Flare ups are bound to happen. But a few sneezes do not necessarily mean he is having another flare up. My brachy Nethie, Dara, has a chronic sneezy nose. Every single day. She gets a watery discharge too. She only has treatment if signs of active infection occur. She’s 5 now and has only needed 2 courses of abx in that time. Her snotty sneeziness can never be ‘cured’ because of her flat face.

If only breeders knew the harm breeding for looks not health can do. I think many do know, but chose to put looks before health

Yes I agree, Phil is always saying calm down as the stress will make your pain worse but when it comes to my buns it is very difficult to stay chilled. He hasn't sneezed since so it could even be from him hoovering up food and getting dust up his nose

I agree with you. When you see pugs that can hardly breathe it makes me so sad. It is even worse for bunnies as they only breathe through their nose. All we can do as rabbit owners is spread the word for them and hope most people put the buns before money and awards. It is very sad. I have been educated on the health problems of flat faced rabbits from you recently and I will pass this knowledge on to others I meet but more importantly this means I know what to look out for so that Chief and Lillabelle have the best care. Even helping just our two bunnies is fantastic plus you have helped many

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Ok so we were ages at the vets but then my tablet kept crashing and I really wanted to update everybun asap. But finally....

So firstly we had real trouble catching Lillabelle! I had put my gauntlets on in case she bit me again I think the slimmer her is way faster. She just slipped out of reach for ages. Well it seemed like ages but was only a few minutes really. Then I managed to catch her but she bit me on my arm. Luckily the gauntlet protected me but she still bit through it to my skin and left a lovely little purple bruise. Thank god I had the gloves on. She was wriggling so much and I had real trouble holding her but I tried to hold her to my chest to make her feel secure hoping she wouldn't bite me again and safely got her into her carrier! Chief was easy to catch but he did growl at me when I picked him up. Then we got a taxi to the vets. Only 5 minutes ride so we save a few quid compared to the last one. They were both fast breathing and we kept talking to them and just hoped they were not too stressed out. Mischief looked really unhappy especially

The receptionist was lovely and you could hear her on the phone telling John to hurry up. She said he gets so involved giving the animals in the back lots of fuss and he has no urgency at all. We didn't mind waiting 20 minutes though especially knowing that he had a forgivable reason to be late When she saw our buns she said how John will absolutely love them as he loves bunnies and ours are huge. That sounded good already! We waited outside in case there were dogs or cats in there but we were seen in the front room just as we go in and were the only people there.

John was very personable. He was from Poland and we chatted a little about his family scattered all over the world. He did indeed love them at first sight. He asked why we were there today and I said how we wanted a second opinion on his eyes, ears and breathing mainly. He checked Mischief over and over. Checking his ears mainly and his fur on his back but also his teeth and his eyes, lungs and heart. Plus he felt him all over for any lumps and general health I guess.

He said firstly that his eyes are perfectly good. I said about the milky discharge from his eyes and asked whether he has entropian and said I have a friend with lots of rabbit experience and she told me to have his eyes checked for this as French lop breeds are prone to this. He said no Chief definitely has no eye issues except for his discharge. He said it would be a good idea to bathe his eyes with chamomile tea every day and that the eye drops we use are good to help him them feel comfortable. His said the eyes themselves are fine. No issues in the eye itself at all. I forgot to say about the dye stain though!

He checked his teeth and said they are obviously on a fantastic diet with a good hay to keep their teeth short! (Thanks to Omi-you get a gold star hehe!) lungs and heart were fine and he couldn't hear any breathing issues which made me feel so much better.

As I said he kept going back to the ears and skin. He said he has ear mites as there are black dots in them amongst the wax. He also said his skin looks good but as he is moulting so much it is difficult to see if his fur looks different from mites but he has no concerns with this.

He said we need ear mite treatment but he would need to order it although we can get it online. We said that he can order it for us and Phil can come and collect it on his bike so he did that. I asked him about worming (as I forgot to ask you Jane) and whether we need to do that. I think I got muddled with flea/mite treatment as I remember you said not to give them medication when they don't need it! I was going to ask you about whether they need mite stuff and wormer as a precautionary measure or not.

He gave us 4 boxes of Panacur and we have to give them 3 notches a day each for 9 days. And the whole bill came to £62! He said I won't charge you for the check up today but I don't know why he didn't tbh.

He said you are obviously experienced rabbit owners as your bunnies are beautiful and perfectly well cared for so I am very happy. He weighed them both and also felt them all over and said that Lillabelle is a perfect weight and Chief's doing very well. Perhaps just to lose a little more belly. Their weights were Chief 5.4 kg exactly and Lillabelle 4.795 kg which I know means they have lost more weight. Quite a bit in a week in fact. I will look after.

I am so happy that his eyes are fine. Hopefully the ear mite stuff will make Chief more comfortable though. I am so chuffed that he is ok. I think it must have been the bad photos that made his eyes look so pink. We will carry on cleaning them and doing the eye drops. Can I just ask you though IM...I have read that you advise to use chamomile teabags on their eyes before but I forgot to ask him how. I presume you make the tea with the teabags first and let it cool down first. Do you clean with the actual teabags on his eye? Or do you use the tea and cotton pads to clean him? Excuse if I asked a stupid question then!

And the price was fab too! They also do a VIP pet plan. It costs £13.99 pm per pet and it gives us free jabs, wormers, flea/mite stuff and fly strike stuff. Plus 10% off all medications and services. So £8 more than Briar House but he was so nice and kept saying how beautiful our buns were! He seemed sad to see them go.

We are going to change to Vintage vets as he is much more personable and gave our buns the extra special care they deserve. And do their VIP plan. It is slightly more money but we are saving money as not buying commercial treats anymore and I spent loads on them...£20-30 pm!! No wonder they were so obese!! I have learned my lesson and we will not be getting them in future. I would rather give them a dandelion root or a sprig of herbs which are healthy treats. I think it helps that I am on a diet now as well and cutting out sugar from my diet and eating healthy also. I think that is where the determination comes from. And the knowledge comes from RU. I am so happy!
Thank you all so much for your help!

I will answer all the posts from every bun on this thread and the one about their diet ( and new slimmer weights) later. I am now off to watch the tennis which we love!

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Quick update...

Both Lillabelle and Mischief have stopped fast breathing now. When we got back Chief we expected both of them to be stressed after the vets and so we left them be so that they can gradually wind down. Lillabelle was let out her carrier by opening the front part and she shot out and hid under the bed as expected. When my OH (Phil) opened Chief's front door he just sat there looking out until Phil opened the top and carried him out. And Chief stamped his foot loudly. Just as expected. Bless him

(Omi will like this ) Chief ran over to his favourite place which is right next to his lovely delicious green hay (their new Timothy hay )
lay down and started munching. So fantastic! (Thanks Omi !)

And they have had some of their fresh herbs and been asleep ever since really. Must be a harrowing experience for them and I hate that we have to take them to the vets but it is vital

But a good outcome I feel

 

[InspectorMorse]

I am glad you felt reassured after the consultation

Hopefully it was the fact that the recent photos on here gave an inaccurate picture of his eyes.

re the chamomile teas you use the cool tea solution, not the actual teabag

 

[Omi]

I'm very pleased that you were reassured by the consultation. I have to say I'm surprised, but relieved, that Chief doesn't have Entropian. As I said I've never experienced it, but his eyes certainly looked so sore on your photos. Just demonstrates really that, whilst photos can be very helpful, nothing is as accurate as seeing the actual animal.

I'm very pleased to accept my gold star I don't get many these days haha. Chief is the one who deserves the gold star, though really. It's excellent how quickly he has taken to the timothy hay and it will be so beneficial to his teeth and his digestion. Our Froe here, will also very often eat timothy hay in preference to anything else, even pellets. Good bunnies

Regarding their weight, it's great that they seem to have lost a lot more. However, do confirm this by comparison with your scales. Not all scales weight the same and so for accuracy it's important to compare on the same scales each time.

Vintage Vets' website actually says that the pre-registration consultation is free, so I reckon that's why you didn't get charged.

 

[bunny momma]

It us good to read your positive update on Mischief and Lilabelle. I hope this update along with the compliments from your new vet will increase your confidence in your ability to provide wonderful care of your bunnies.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I am glad you felt reassured after the consultation

Hopefully it was the fact that the recent photos on here gave an inaccurate picture of his eyes.

re the chamomile teas you use the cool tea solution, not the actual teabag

Sorry did not reply yesterday. I was so shattered once I knew Chief was ok. I was so stressed in the end and went to bed after the tennis and slept through yesterday only to reason I had forgotten to order my morphine so going through morphine withdrawal at mo

I did feel he gave us a more personal consultation. And by that I mean the buns
I just feel he loved to see them and went 'ooooooo they are big' with a happy smile on his face.

Phil described him as a Dr Doolittle. I think that sums him up well.

I think the photos I took were really bad ones. I looked at his eyes yesterday and they were the clearest I had seen them. However he has the tiniest bit on his fur that looks almost like a graze. It is where the tears go when I put the drops in. So I really gently put some vaseline on there. Maybe the tears are making him sore there. I will try the camomile teabags (without the tea bag ) and see if it helps today.

If I can I will send you some 'good' photos without me holding his eyes open as I think that's probably why you thought they looked so bad

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I'm very pleased that you were reassured by the consultation. I have to say I'm surprised, but relieved, that Chief doesn't have Entropian. As I said I've never experienced it, but his eyes certainly looked so sore on your photos. Just demonstrates really that, whilst photos can be very helpful, nothing is as accurate as seeing the actual animal.

I'm very pleased to accept my gold star I don't get many these days haha. Chief is the one who deserves the gold star, though really. It's excellent how quickly he has taken to the timothy hay and it will be so beneficial to his teeth and his digestion. Our Froe here, will also very often eat timothy hay in preference to anything else, even pellets. Good bunnies

Regarding their weight, it's great that they seem to have lost a lot more. However, do confirm this by comparison with your scales. Not all scales weight the same and so for accuracy it's important to compare on the same scales each time.

Vintage Vets' website actually says that the pre-registration consultation is free, so I reckon that's why you didn't get charged.

Yes as I said to IM both our phones are pretty old so not these lovely cameras you get now. His eyes look the best they have in years. I think the eye drops and that I carefully clean his eyes every day have made the difference. I am very pleased though how they look now. And yes a vet seeing the animals as you say is the only real way you can detect problems.

Could the ear mites have caused the problems in his eyes though? We will get the ear mite stuff tomorrow.

I apologise that I haven't answered the posts in their diet thread yet. I will do but this thread was the more important one and my tablet keeps crashing. I only have a rubbish phone plus I can't two finger type and I am so slow on it whereas I am slowly remembering how to type a little so please bear with me. However they continue to love their new Timothy (green hay we call it) and Chief chooses it rather than other food regularly.

Yes my OH weighed them in their carriers when we got back and then weighed the carriers. It was much easier really and we had exactly the same weight as the vets.

I think that they offer it as free is a great way to get customers. We would never have looked around if old vets had not sent our bunnies home wet after Lillabelle's spay. I think we lost faith in them then especially as the 'rabbit savvy' vet Harrison did not show his face at all in her spay or check ups after. We did get an email of apology from them from the manager after but over a week later which did not cut it for us. If Lillabelle had ended up poorly because she was wet it could have been a different outcome Plus IM is so right that the vets should always be there with us and check them in front of us. Also I read on the website that this vet has only been open a couple of months and is the only vet in Margate town apart from PDSA which is just down our road. PDSA are fantastic but they do not proclaim to being rabbit experts. We use them for emergencies like gut stasis as we can walk there quickly. The other vets are a 20 minute taxi ride which is not bad but Vintage Vets has picked a great spot for a new vets.

We are a little nervous about how good he will be in theatre but his photos show some of the work he has done so far and he has some certificates from Cambridge uni (which my son went to) so that goes in his favour. I do feel that he is more interested in animals than people though. The receptionist could be his partner purely by the affectionate way she chastised him for being too long. A dog was really barking in that 'I want to go home' sound and he had go the dog out I think as he had stopped barking. Looking the animals is why we pay the vets isn't it?

It is so difficult for us bunny owners as 'rabbit savvy' vets are not easy to find and it is hard to trust a vet with our furry friends. I hope we will have better care from John and vintage vets

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

It us good to read your positive update on Mischief and Lilabelle. I hope this update along with the compliments from your new vet will increase your confidence in your ability to provide wonderful care of your bunnies.

Thank you BM you have been such a help with your regular vibes and comforting words

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Just to clarify quickly...is it common practice on RU to only do flea/mite stuff should the need arise or do you (as in RU) recommend doing it regularly as per usual vet advice? I know Chief has ear mites at mo. I asked vet if Lillabelle needs to be done as well and he said no. If you say differently on here could you explain why that is please? And do you give mite stuff regularly as a preventative treatment or only when they have mites. If a bag of hay has mites in it then you wouldn't know I guess?

The same question on wormers...do you recommend to worm them annually or if the need arises? Doesn't it help protect against EC? Just would like your take on this everybun.Thank you

Also when would those on RU use fly strike stuff? I have never used it before as they are only inside and we have mesh on the bedroom and lounge windows. Should we put some on them as a preventative treatment or when do you recommend using it?

I don't want to use medication for no reason on my buns but also don't want them coping with parasites, mites, flies etc in this warmer weather unnecessarily either. Thank you

 

[InspectorMorse]

I do not use mite or flea treatments unless the Rabbit has mites or fleas

I do not use Panacur (wormer) for gastrointestinal worms unless the Rabbit has them.

Re EC-After a ‘one off’ 28 day course of Panacur I do not use it to address EC unless the Rabbit has clinical symptoms or if advised to do so by my Vet.
Panacur does not cure or prevent EC, it just reduces the number of EC spores that could be circulating in the bloodstream. Most EC infection occurs before birth. The parasite is excreted long before any clinical symptoms develop, if they ever do. Clinical symptoms only occur if dormant spores circulating in the bloodstream erupt into the cells of the CNS, the kidneys or the lenses of the eyes.Many infected Rabbits will never become clinically unwell. Their own immune system keeps the spores in a dormant state.

The RWAF does not recommend using a routine wormer .See last paragraph in ‘prevention’ on this link

Rabbits and E. cuniculi (Encephalitozoon cuniculi)

Understand the impact of E. cuniculi (Encephalitozoon cuniculi) on rabbits. Expert advice and resources to safeguard your bunny's health.

rabbitwelfare.co.uk

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Thank you Jane. That does help a lot. Our buns were 'wormed' when we got them but they did not have a 28 day course of Panacur. It was a much shorter dose. So do we need to give them this 28 day course then?

Mischief has had his ear mite stuff and is also being treated to the ear cleaner regularly to get rid of the wax.

Both bunnies are doing really well now. Their weights are much better. They have both lost a kilo in weight and are more active and seem very happy. So after all the worry they are doing so well. Thank you especially to Inspector Morse and Omi for sticking with me and putting up with my long posts as the good work has paid off

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

We used Naqua mite treatment Ivermectin drops 1% advised by my vets.