Who has experience in hand feeding hay to your bun?

[Happy Hopping]

so my bun Fudgie has a 4mm long "edge" on his tooth, it is NOT a spur, but it bothers him that he doesn't eat hay on his own. 1.5 yr. ago, something similar has happened, but due to allergic reaction to GA gas, he nearly die. So I can't be under GA again. As such, the alternative is to hand feed him hay

1) how do you how much to feed?

2) he keep biting my finger

3) any trick is giving hay to a rabbit?

4) is it better to feed 1 piece of hay at a time or a few piece at the same time?

any other hand feed advice ?

 

[InspectorMorse]

so my bun Fudgie has a 4mm long "edge" on his tooth, it is NOT a spur, but it bothers him that he doesn't eat hay on his own. 1.5 yr. ago, something similar has happened, but due to allergic reaction to GA gas, he nearly die. So I can't be under GA again. As such, the alternative is to hand feed him hay

1) how do you how much to feed?

2) he keep biting my finger

3) any trick is giving hay to a rabbit?

4) is it better to feed 1 piece of hay at a time or a few piece at the same time?

any other hand feed advice ?

It won’t make any difference hand feeding hay if he cannot eat it due to a dental problem. If he can’t chew it he can’t chew it, regardless of how it gets into his mouth.

There are different drug protocols for GAs, so it is perfectly possible for him to have a Dental using different drugs/doses. Other safety precautions - Pre GA bloods could be done to check major organ function, fluid therapy during and after the procedure. Checking and monitoring his BP, heart rate and temperature.

 

[Shimmer]

I would also monitor his weight weekly. If he's not able to eat properly, he will start to lose weight and you would need to seek veterinary advice.

If you have access to any, grass would be a viable option to hay. He may find it more appealing and easier to eat. If not, he needs the tooth sorting out.

 

[Preitler]

At the bottom of my bales there is quite a lot of small, flaky, leafy stuff, crumbled grass and weed leaves, some of mine love that and it might be easier to chew.

 

[Happy Hopping]

It won’t make any difference hand feeding hay if he cannot eat it due to a dental problem. If he can’t chew it he can’t chew it, regardless of how it gets into his mouth.

There are different drug protocols for GAs, so it is perfectly possible for him to have a Dental using different drugs/doses. Other safety precautions - Pre GA bloods could be done to check major organ function, fluid therapy during and after the procedure. Checking and monitoring his BP, heart rate and temperature.

but that's just it. He can eat the hay when I hand feed him. He break down all the hay w/ his teeth and eat them, that's the part I don't get. But if I don't hand feed him, he won't eat it on his own

 

[Shimmer]

If the issue of not being able to pick hay up from the floor, maybe look at different ways of feeding hay. Hang some bunches up, or put inside a cardboard tube and hang that up. Look at some sort of hay rack (eg a bit of wire fastened into a tube & stuffed with hay, or wire baskets mounted on a puppy panel). Look at what you have available and see if there's anything you can adapt to see if it makes a difference.

 

[bunny momma]

By an edge, do you mean the tooth is longer on one part that is not wearing at the same rate as the rest of the tooth? If so, eating hay is unlikely to wear down this protrusion and it will continue to get longer.
My bridge bunny Raven had dental issues and vet had to change his GA protocol. As a last resort, your vet may be able to do a conscious dental depending on the location of this edge.
Sending vibes for you and your bunny.

 

[InspectorMorse]

but that's just it. He can eat the hay when I hand feed him. He break down all the hay w/ his teeth and eat them, that's the part I don't get. But if I don't hand feed him, he won't eat it on his own

So is it the Incisors that are the problem? Rabbits pick up food using their Incisors.

 

[Shimmer]

If it is the incisors and your rabbit is easy to handle, your vet may be able to burr them down without a GA. It's worth discussing as an option.

 

[Happy Hopping]

edge may not be the right word. The vet draw me a diagram of his teeth. So at some part of his teeth, there is some uneven teeth surface that sticks out longer than it should. But the vet has made it clear it's not a spur. Among the uneven surface, 1 piece is 4mm long.

I have the Welch Allyn digtal otoscope, but the battery is dead, so a new battery is coming, once it arrives , I can take photos of the inside of his mouth

it's not the incisor at all. It's somewhere inside. I just come up w/ a new idea so I want to hear you people opinion:

in another thread back Oct. 2023, a new hay supplier sold me some compressed hay. Her hay is very thin, 1X to 2X needle thin, no seedhead, no thick stem at all, and yet the 2 rabbits poo becomes gigantic

this year, the hay is back to the normal big fat stem w/ seed head as I use another supplier. Now if the issue is the hay stem too sharp or too fat, I'm thinking I should go back to the Oct. 2023 supplier, and see if my bun will eat it. What do you people think?

As he eats the carrot just fine, so I am guessing he avoid eating the hay as it bothers him being too thick or too sharp? as once I hand feed him, w/ a small encouragement to feed it in his mouth, he does chew and eat all the thick hay stem + seed head.

 

[Shimmer]

Carrot is a loteasier to eat than hay as it is mainly water. Hay is really tough fibres and takes a determined chewing action to grind it down.

Any irregular growth of the molars that is affecting how the rabbit eats really needs sorting by burring it down, whether you call it a spur or something else. It's not going to sort itself out as the teeth will continue to grow, and without a regular chewing action, other teeth will become affected eventually.

 

[Happy Hopping]

excellent pt. So when I hand seed him those hay a few times per day, it should help greatly. It all come down to if he does a surgery, he could die from a -ve reaction to GA gas, as that's what happens last time, he nearly die from the GA

 

[bunny momma]

Is he getting any pain meds? The edge on his tooth may be causing him discomfort, especially with heavier hay that requires more grinding motion.
You may be able to get a less stalky hay variety or a different cutting. Here we have orchard grass hay which is less stalky. A prior post mentioned grass (not avail outside where I live but can grow in pots inside). Also, first cutting hay usually has more seed heads and is stalkier than second or third cutting hay.
It takes a lot of chewing to wear down an edge or spur. Sometimes the alignment of the teeth or location of the edge/spur may not allow the bunny to wear it down even if the bunny ate lots of hay.
If he stops eating your only.option may be to risk another GA with different drugs used as anesthesia.
Sending you and your bunny vibes.

 

[Happy Hopping]

so the vet did give metacam if I needed it. But he's not in any pain. He eats everything on his own except the hay. So you're right, I'm in contact w/ another hay supplier on some fine thin needle shape hay. So that way, I don't have to hand feed him.

As to hand feeding, I'm fine tuning it so he doesn't have to bite my finger

 

[Happy Hopping]

It won’t make any difference hand feeding hay if he cannot eat it due to a dental problem. If he can’t chew it he can’t chew it, regardless of how it gets into his mouth.

There are different drug protocols for GAs, so it is perfectly possible for him to have a Dental using different drugs/doses. Other safety precautions - Pre GA bloods could be done to check major organ function, fluid therapy during and after the procedure. Checking and monitoring his BP, heart rate and temperature.

So I need some help:

further to the first 4 pages of my bun's dental problem from this thread:

my bun Fudgie is not eating enough timothy hay and is losing wt. thru out the years

Now, I have an unrelated question for any of you: how does human work under pre-GA? Does it happen to human that certain compound has a reaction to a human and that human is near death? Also, does human uses the same sort of chemical compound compares to animals? Yes to all

forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk

today he's drooling. My vet appt. is set for Tues. at 9 am

my problem w/ his dental is the same: that he nearly die on the surgery table last time. So I have to ask:

1) for the small 5 to 15% of rabbits, among other small animals like dogs, cats, etc., that has a bad reaction to GA on their first surgery, exactly what can a vet do in regards to "different drugs / doses" on its 2nd surgery to prevent his near death from the 1st surgery?

2) clearly that 4 mm tooth that is sticking out, need to be trim down, should we do pre-surgery blood test? and is there anything else need to be done pre-surgery?

 

[bunny momma]

Bloods would be helpful to assess overall health and the ability of the kidneys and liver to process the medications used before and during GA.

Giving fluids before the GA will help his body process and eliminate byproducts of the sedation and GA.

A chest X-ray may olso be beneficial.

Sending vibes.

 

[Happy Hopping]

that's very useful information. Now, what is "Byproducts of sedation" means?

 

[InspectorMorse]

Sorry, I don’t visit RU much anymore so have only just seen your question to me.


Whilst pre op blood tests can give an idea of major organ function at the end of the day your Rabbit needs a dental. Otherwise the Rabbit will eventually stop eating and will develop gut stasis and suffer a huge amount of discomfort. Any soft tissue damage in the mouth will worsen and become infected. Malnutrition will lead to liver problems.

The Vet will be aware of the previous poor reaction to the GA used. Exactly what the problem was due to would depend on when the event happened.

The Vet will take all of the history into account and adjust the drug protocol accordingly. That said, no GA can ever be 100% safe for any living being. All GAs come with some risks.

‘Byproducts’ of the GA is a general term to refer to what remains in the bloodstream from the various drugs after they have been metabolised in the kidneys and liver. Fluid therapy can help support the kidneys as they work to flush the byproducts out of the bloodstream.

With good intubation, monitoring of heart rate, blood pressure and temperature and the use of individual case appropriate drugs/doses I am sure the Vet will do everything possible to make the essential procedure as safe as possible.

 

[Happy Hopping]

Jane, I just to clarify what you and "bunny Momma" is talking about:

1) I should give how many sub-Q prior to surgery? say his surgery is set at Fri. at noon for e.g., then obviously, he would still be in my house on Thurs. So thurs. during the day and night, should we do 50 cc of sub-Q, being the normal amt. for a 1.9 KG bun, at least twice , say once during the day and once before I go to bed?

2) now, this morning he was drooling. So I give 0.45 cc of metacam on Fudgie, and use water to clean off the drooling part of his fur, and since the metacam is given, he's no longer drooling. This is a very good sign. So is there a way or sign to determine when soft tissue damage will get to the point that we need to do the dental?

what I am saying is, since there is a much higher risk for him to go under a GA, as he just turn age 8. So today, he is about 8 year and 1.5 mth. old, so that if we can delay the surgery for say 2 more month, then he has 2 more good mth. to live, as I have to assume the worst (that I will lost him under a GA) when he need to do the dental. As so far, the only sign is drooling, and needless to say, he was using his tongue to move around the mouth last night, but I don't see it anymore since metacam is given, and today is the very 1st day of metacam.

3) how come you're not visiting RU regularly any more? is there some other forum that I can get a hold of you for a second opinion in the future ?

 

[Shimmer]

A drooling rabbit is definitely in need of vet attention, and a dental when you know that's the issue. 2 months with a deteriorating dental issue is a long time as the teeth continue to grow. There's no point in putting it off as it will just get worse, and the condition of the rabbit going into the GA will become more compromised - which is just what you are trying to prevent. Talk to your vet and get them to go through everything eg how they would change the GA protocol from last time, fluid therapy, bloods for organ function, feeding before the op, etc. I hope all goes well and that Fudgie is back to chomping on hay very soon.