Spencer again

[Omi]

The vet at the emergency vets who had treated Spencer recommended getting a PM done, because two rabbits that lived together suffered similar symptoms and passed away with a couple of days of each other.

I had already decided that if Spencer was to pass away then I would look at getting a PM, luckily the father in law helped with paying for Spencer’s treatment, and the PM.

I feel that it was important, not only to give my wife and I a chance of getting some answers, but also if it is something contagious the vets etc can warn other rabbit owners etc.


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I agree I think in this case even more than most, you and your wife need to know what has happened. Hopefully your vets will already have alerted the P@H store manager of the strong possibility of exposure to RHD2 and that they have taken the necessary steps to stop selling unvaccinated rabbits in the store until more facts are known. You will of course also need the results of the histology/PCR test if it is RHD2 and you decide to make a claim for the cost of treatment for both Spencer and Frank.

Again, I'm very sorry that Frank and Spencer are no longer with you

 

[MightyMax]

The vet at the emergency vets who had treated Spencer recommended getting a PM done, because two rabbits that lived together suffered similar symptoms and passed away with a couple of days of each other.

I had already decided that if Spencer was to pass away then I would look at getting a PM, luckily the father in law helped with paying for Spencer’s treatment, and the PM.

I feel that it was important, not only to give my wife and I a chance of getting some answers, but also if it is something contagious the vets etc can warn other rabbit owners etc.


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I know you and I have discussed this already, but I think you are doing the wisest thing.

I hope you are both doing as well as possible

 

[zarathustra]

Thanks everyone.

I think we are both doing ok, all things considered, and although we are awaiting lab results which could be a couple of weeks yet, burying Spencer has given us some closure.

I haven’t been into P@H since Saturday, so I don’t know what, if any, preventative measures have been taken.

I know RHD2 is very contagious, but Spencer was wrapped in a towel and in a plastic carry case, would that pose any more of a risk of spreading any potential virus than when my wife and I went in to speak to the vets on Wednesday night?


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[Omi]

Thanks everyone.

I think we are both doing ok, all things considered, and although we are awaiting lab results which could be a couple of weeks yet, burying Spencer has given us some closure.

I haven’t been into P@H since Saturday, so I don’t know what, if any, preventative measures have been taken.

I know RHD2 is very contagious, but Spencer was wrapped in a towel and in a plastic carry case, would that pose any more of a risk of spreading any potential virus than when my wife and I went in to speak to the vets on Wednesday night?


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As you are aware RHD2 is highly contagious. I don't think it's possible to judge whether Spencer in the carry case would be more or less of a risk than you and your wife on Wednesday evening. However, I think it's safe to say that if RHD2 is confirmed then both events would pose a large risk to other rabbits, especially if those rabbits are unvaccinated. The virus can be transmitted in various ways, e.g. on your clothing including footwear, on surfaces, plants and of course from rabbit to rabbit.

I can imagine that waiting for the lab results is a painful time for you

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Just checking in to say that you and your wife remain in my thoughts at what has been and no doubt still is a hideous time for you.

As you are aware RHD2 is highly contagious. I don't think it's possible to judge whether Spencer in the carry case would be more or less of a risk than you and your wife on Wednesday evening. However, I think it's safe to say that if RHD2 is confirmed then both events would pose a large risk to other rabbits, especially if those rabbits are unvaccinated. The virus can be transmitted in various ways, e.g. on your clothing including footwear, on surfaces, plants and of course from rabbit to rabbit.

I can imagine that waiting for the lab results is a painful time for you

I totally concur with Omi's post. Also, if you could face doing so I would call the PAH store yourself today and speak with the Manager. I'd alert him/her to your tragic losses, that you had to pass through the store and the potential of possible cases of RHD2. Personally I would have to do this as all of the Rabbits in the PAH Store are unvaccinated. Personally I feel it is imperative that all sales cease until the PM results are back.

 

[zarathustra]

Thanks, I will see if I can get in touch with the P@H store today.

It is a bit of a nervous wait for the lab results, it could be a couple of weeks before we hear back, and I know that even then they might not find anything conclusive.

I miss walking out of the back door in the morning and shouting "Good morning boys!" and being greeted by the sound of two happy boys galloping around their hutch excited at the prospect of food and access to the run.

We are slowly going around cleaning up after the boys, we have lots of stuff like opened bags of nuggets and dried forage that needs to go, as well as open wood shavings, timothy hay, and straw. Then we have their carry cases and all their toys, and the indoor cage that we had bought for when they might have had to stay indoors, like after they were neutered etc, which was also the cage where Frank passed away.

We don't know what to do with their hutch, if it is confirmed as RHD2, and probably if the results of the lab tests are inconclusive then I think we will get rid of it, and get a new one, if it is confirmed that it wasn't RHD2 then we will give a good decontamination and stuff to neutralise the Frank and Spencer smell and make some repairs and re-use it.

 

[MightyMax]

Thanks everyone.

I think we are both doing ok, all things considered, and although we are awaiting lab results which could be a couple of weeks yet, burying Spencer has given us some closure.

I haven’t been into P@H since Saturday, so I don’t know what, if any, preventative measures have been taken.

I know RHD2 is very contagious, but Spencer was wrapped in a towel and in a plastic carry case, would that pose any more of a risk of spreading any potential virus than when my wife and I went in to speak to the vets on Wednesday night?


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It's a long wait for those lab results, and I hope they give you closure.

It's going to be difficult for P@H to do anything until you have definitive proof, I think.
Obviously you could alert them, but they may wish to wait until your results are back.

Feel free to contact me any time. My thoughts are with you both.

 

[RosRWAF]

Just checking in to say that you and your wife remain in my thoughts at what has been and no doubt still is a hideous time for you.






I totally concur with Omi's post. Also, if you could face doing so I would call the PAH store yourself today and speak with the Manager. I'd alert him/her to your tragic losses, that you had to pass through the store and the potential of possible cases of RHD2. Personally I would have to do this as all of the Rabbits in the PAH Store are unvaccinated. Personally I feel it is imperative that all sales cease until the PM results are back.

This is very sensible advice and we would strongly advise you to follow it. We also are so sorry that you have lost both your rabbits, you must be devastated

 

[RosRWAF]

It's a long wait for those lab results, and I hope they give you closure.

It's going to be difficult for P@H to do anything until you have definitive proof, I think.
Obviously you could alert them, but they may wish to wait until your results are back.

Feel free to contact me any time. My thoughts are with you both.

We wouldn't agree with waiting. They should be alerted asap to the probability and then that can be backed up later if the results prove positive

 

[zarathustra]

Thanks all,

I have called the vets and spoke to them and explained my worries about taking a potentially contaminated rabbit through the store past the new rabbits etc that they have, there were also 2 people who came in with a total of 3 rabbits while we were waiting to take Spencer in to the vets, and that I would hate for someone to take home their new bunny and have to go through the same thing as my wife and I. They have said that they will speak to the store, as they have a good relationship with them, but whether the store will care is another matter.

The samples are getting picked up by a courier to get taken to the lab tonight, they don't know when the results will be back, but they have said they will keep me up to date with what is going on etc.

They are a good surgery, and aside from the issue with the vet that gave our boys the wrong vaccinations we've never had any other problems, they have always been well looked after. However, I can't comment on whether they count as "rabbit savvy", and considering the rate at which they seem to get through vets I imagine that sometimes they have people with lots of experience, and other times they have people with not quite as much.

I will be sourcing a different vet when we do get some more bunnies.

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Thanks all,

I have called the vets and spoke to them and explained my worries about taking a potentially contaminated rabbit through the store past the new rabbits etc that they have, there were also 2 people who came in with a total of 3 rabbits while we were waiting to take Spencer in to the vets, and that I would hate for someone to take home their new bunny and have to go through the same thing as my wife and I. They have said that they will speak to the store, as they have a good relationship with them, but whether the store will care is another matter.

The samples are getting picked up by a courier to get taken to the lab tonight, they don't know when the results will be back, but they have said they will keep me up to date with what is going on etc.

They are a good surgery, and aside from the issue with the vet that gave our boys the wrong vaccinations we've never had any other problems, they have always been well looked after. However, I can't comment on whether they count as "rabbit savvy", and considering the rate at which they seem to get through vets I imagine that sometimes they have people with lots of experience, and other times they have people with not quite as much.

I will be sourcing a different vet when we do get some more bunnies.

A wise decision x

 

[MightyMax]

We wouldn't agree with waiting. They should be alerted asap to the probability and then that can be backed up later if the results prove positive

Nor do I.

 

[MightyMax]

Thanks all,

I have called the vets and spoke to them and explained my worries about taking a potentially contaminated rabbit through the store past the new rabbits etc that they have, there were also 2 people who came in with a total of 3 rabbits while we were waiting to take Spencer in to the vets, and that I would hate for someone to take home their new bunny and have to go through the same thing as my wife and I. They have said that they will speak to the store, as they have a good relationship with them, but whether the store will care is another matter.

The samples are getting picked up by a courier to get taken to the lab tonight, they don't know when the results will be back, but they have said they will keep me up to date with what is going on etc.

They are a good surgery, and aside from the issue with the vet that gave our boys the wrong vaccinations we've never had any other problems, they have always been well looked after. However, I can't comment on whether they count as "rabbit savvy", and considering the rate at which they seem to get through vets I imagine that sometimes they have people with lots of experience, and other times they have people with not quite as much.

I will be sourcing a different vet when we do get some more bunnies.

I am glad that you have a 'when' in there and not an 'if'.

Once bitten by the bunny bug ...

 

[zarathustra]

I am glad that you have a 'when' in there and not an 'if'.

Once bitten by the bunny bug ...

When we first got them I wasn’t sure about getting rabbits, and hadn’t really considered them as a pet.

But, they grew on me, with their cheeky faces and their funny ways.

My wife initially wasn’t keen on more rabbits, as it has been hard work over the last week, where they were (seemingly) happy and bouncy one minute, and then having to rush them to the emergency vets and everything else that followed.

But, I think that she saw how much it means to me, and decided we could have more bunnies, but we are going to wait until the spring.


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[zarathustra]

I thought I’d update this thread rather than start a new one.

I spoke to the practice manager at vets 4 pets earlier, Spencer tested positive for RHD but the lab didn’t test for a variant, so they are trying to find a lab that can test for that.

She also wasn’t concerned about a rabbit with a confirmed infection of RHD (most likely RHD2 based on them not getting vaccinated and lack of RHD1 symptom) going through pets at home past all of their baby in vaccinated rabbits.

They are covering the costs for the additional tests


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[Jack's-Jane]

She also wasn’t concerned about a rabbit with a confirmed infection of RHD (most likely RHD2 based on them not getting vaccinated and lack of RHD1 symptom) going through pets at home past all of their baby in vaccinated rabbits.

:shock:

Cant understand that at all.

This is a Lab that carries out PCR testing for RHD2

http://www.laboklin.co.uk/laboklin/showGeneralTest.jsp?testID=8518

 

[MightyMax]

I thought I’d update this thread rather than start a new one.

I spoke to the practice manager at vets 4 pets earlier, Spencer tested positive for RHD but the lab didn’t test for a variant, so they are trying to find a lab that can test for that.

She also wasn’t concerned about a rabbit with a confirmed infection of RHD (most likely RHD2 based on them not getting vaccinated and lack of RHD1 symptom) going through pets at home past all of their baby in vaccinated rabbits.

They are covering the costs for the additional tests


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Hi there

I posted on the RHD2 thread about post mortems -

It's here, post number 182

Regarding a post mortem

"In view of Holly Harrison-Watson’s comment on the Myxo VHD map FB page and some others I have read, where the owner of a dead rabbit gets dismissed by a vet over cause of death, post mortem services are available at Cambridge University (Anatomic Pathology Service)
Phone: 01223 337606 (General enquiries)

The Department is ‘not for profit’ so you may find their price cheaper than a business e.g. vet or commercial lab. They list their services on the above web page. Other vet schools might offer similar services.
Some things cannot be performed in house if cause of death not clear from post mortem e.g. PCR if you are looking for RHD. So that gets sent out and is the usual commercial rate of over £100.

Price list for Cambridge Queen’s Veterinary School Hospital on this page;
A rabbit post mortem is £66.53 + VAT (Feb 2018 price list).

The body is cremated afterwards for £8 + VAT but and you can choose to have the ashes returned to you for scattering or in a casket.
“Mass cremation, scatter box (with ashes) & wooden casket (with ashes) are also available”
I do not work for them but I have used them. The Head of Pathology returned my call from a general enquiry and I got the impression the public can self refer. Might be useful for those of you who have your concerns dismissed by a vet."

 

[loobers25]

I'm so so sorry what a terrible mistake the vets have made. I am just so upset for you

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[mikek]

thanks for the update, zarathustra.

Spencer and Frank really touched my heart. They were quite clearly dearly loved & impeccably cared for which is all we can do.
Big love to them xxx.

 

[zarathustra]

Sorry, I was on my phone earlier and about to go to the gym.

So her lack of concern was because she said that they have people who don't vaccinate their rabbits at all and walk through the store to get to the vets. I don't agree with her point of view, it's one thing to wait until the results of the PM come back, but now we know that Spencer had RHD, and we know that they didn't give either of our boys the RHD2 vaccination, and while I understand that the nature of the virus is that someone could bring it into the store after they've been for a walk in the woods, they know that an infected rabbit has been brought through their store, and I was wearing the same clothes that I was the night before when I had been holding Spencer so I could have easily left contaminated fur etc whilst walking through. But they are under no obligation to inform the store, and the store are under obligation, as far as I am aware, to remove their rabbits from sale until they are happy they've not been infected.

She was very quick to point out that no vaccination is 100% effective, no doubt trying to make me think that it might just be "one of those things", which will not wash. Although, she has told me that she is working with the clinical director for Vets 4 pets to work out how this was able to happen, and to ensure that it doesn't happen again.

I'm not overly fussed about the money, although I do think either the practise or the vet should cover the avoidable costs we have had for emergency vets etc, I'm not going to let this go and I will be making a huge stink about this if they try to brush anything under the carpet, or try to dodge any responsibility.