Excellent.
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Older mini lop going off food - probable lymphoma
- Thread starter Moonstone
- Start date
Hopefully he will have some more food during the night. Is he still producing poop?
I think I would do the same. She will provide support. It could also be that he might be tempted to eat if Millie is eating, although obviously she could eat most of it. I think you should be able to tell in the morning if he's produced poop because they will be smaller.
InspectorMorse
Wise Old Thumper
I agree, keeping him comfortable with company is more important now. I do hope he can pull through x
InspectorMorse
Wise Old Thumper
Just wondering how your boy is now ? I have been thinking of him during the night x
Hello, did he eat and poo during the night?
I would be wanting an examination of his tummy to feel for any swellings and/or signs of bloat. I would also want blood tests to be done to establish if there is any internal organ issue such as kidney function. I think it also would be helpful for the vet to provide some fluid therapy.
Thinking of him and you and hoping that it all goes well.
bunny momma
Wise Old Thumper
Sending positive vibes he eats better today!
Moonstone
Warren Scout
Thank you, bunny momma.
Thank you, Omi.
He pooed in the night, I can't tell whether he ate or Millie did. He is eating now. He's having his meds a bit late as I didn't want to interupt the eating. Okay, full examination of swelling, blood tests esp for kidney and fluid therapy. He's going back to the hospital as they couldn't fit him in locally. I'm scared they are going to offer pts again but I think it's more likely they'll be asking to admit him.
Thank you, Omi.
He pooed in the night, I can't tell whether he ate or Millie did. He is eating now. He's having his meds a bit late as I didn't want to interupt the eating. Okay, full examination of swelling, blood tests esp for kidney and fluid therapy. He's going back to the hospital as they couldn't fit him in locally. I'm scared they are going to offer pts again but I think it's more likely they'll be asking to admit him.
Moonstone
Warren Scout
This was him yesterday morning which is similar to how he looks right now:
https://player.vimeo.com/video/916623822
His abdomen doesn't look right but his attitude doesn't look ready to give up.
https://player.vimeo.com/video/916623822
His abdomen doesn't look right but his attitude doesn't look ready to give up.
InspectorMorse
Wise Old Thumper
I agree with Omi about getting a full blood profile run. Also fluids are really so useful. You do NOT have to agree with PTS if you are not 100% certain it is what is in his best interests.
Some Vets are willing and able to attempt to do a conscious abdominal X-ray. Whilst the image obtained from a conscious X-ray won’t be as thorough as one done under sedation, it would flag up an obstruction/bloat .
I would request that CISAPRIDE is added to the metoclopramide. Both are prokinetics but whilst metoclop’ acts on the stomach, increasing the rate at which it empties into the small intestines, cisapride acts on the hind gut, increasing peristaltic contractions. Aggressive fluid therapy will insure that the gut contents remain well hydrated. Thus softer and easier for it to pass through. When a Rabbit is in gut stasis water is quickly absorbed from gut contents, this leads to the formation of clumps of dehydrated ingested matter that is more likely to obstruct the GI tract. If you see what I mean.
I hope that the Vet who sees him today will be Rabbit Savvy. Sending millions of vibes for him x
Some Vets are willing and able to attempt to do a conscious abdominal X-ray. Whilst the image obtained from a conscious X-ray won’t be as thorough as one done under sedation, it would flag up an obstruction/bloat .
I would request that CISAPRIDE is added to the metoclopramide. Both are prokinetics but whilst metoclop’ acts on the stomach, increasing the rate at which it empties into the small intestines, cisapride acts on the hind gut, increasing peristaltic contractions. Aggressive fluid therapy will insure that the gut contents remain well hydrated. Thus softer and easier for it to pass through. When a Rabbit is in gut stasis water is quickly absorbed from gut contents, this leads to the formation of clumps of dehydrated ingested matter that is more likely to obstruct the GI tract. If you see what I mean.
I hope that the Vet who sees him today will be Rabbit Savvy. Sending millions of vibes for him x
Moonstone
Warren Scout
They've admitted Archie for the afternoon, Millie is with him and I'm to pick them up at 6pm.
The vet read the notes the previous vet wrote and I said, "Well I know he's an older bunny but...." I was so grateful for that 'but'! She thought it well worth finding out what's underlying his stasis, especially as he's willing to eat and still has energy. He is going to be put on a drip, given blood tests and an attempt at imaging while consious. She felt his kidneys, said the right one felt very healthy but the left one was smaller and he winced when she pushed on it. I asked about cisapride and she said, yes, she was thinking that too so he's going on it (thank you, InspectorMorse). In terms of his skin he didn't seem very dehydrated but apparently his eyes and gums looked more so. She said they'd give him a small amount of syringed food and watch out for swelling, she said mild swelling might actually help with the diagnosis.
She also said that they aren't rabbit specialists, that they are very good at common things like stasis but anything more complex would need a referral to Swindon or Bristol. She thinks there is only one exotic vet at the Bristol place so maybe Swindon would be better. She also offered for an immediate referral and for me to drive them straight there but they'd already been in the carrier for an hour, and that would have meant another hour's drive. I decided it would be better to get him some hydration and electrolytes first.
The results of the bloods aren't back until to tomorrow, and she also mentioned they might not manage to get blood from him as he's dehydrated. If they can't get a drip into him then he'll have regular subcutaneous shots. He is energised enough to pull out the drip, but we'll see.
Millie often goes off food while in hospital, I need to keep an eye on her, its all been stressful for her too, but she does have a bit of weight to lose now as she's been going round like a hoover after the food I leave out for him.
I'm going to clean their room now. I can actually use a hoover!
The vet read the notes the previous vet wrote and I said, "Well I know he's an older bunny but...." I was so grateful for that 'but'! She thought it well worth finding out what's underlying his stasis, especially as he's willing to eat and still has energy. He is going to be put on a drip, given blood tests and an attempt at imaging while consious. She felt his kidneys, said the right one felt very healthy but the left one was smaller and he winced when she pushed on it. I asked about cisapride and she said, yes, she was thinking that too so he's going on it (thank you, InspectorMorse). In terms of his skin he didn't seem very dehydrated but apparently his eyes and gums looked more so. She said they'd give him a small amount of syringed food and watch out for swelling, she said mild swelling might actually help with the diagnosis.
She also said that they aren't rabbit specialists, that they are very good at common things like stasis but anything more complex would need a referral to Swindon or Bristol. She thinks there is only one exotic vet at the Bristol place so maybe Swindon would be better. She also offered for an immediate referral and for me to drive them straight there but they'd already been in the carrier for an hour, and that would have meant another hour's drive. I decided it would be better to get him some hydration and electrolytes first.
The results of the bloods aren't back until to tomorrow, and she also mentioned they might not manage to get blood from him as he's dehydrated. If they can't get a drip into him then he'll have regular subcutaneous shots. He is energised enough to pull out the drip, but we'll see.
Millie often goes off food while in hospital, I need to keep an eye on her, its all been stressful for her too, but she does have a bit of weight to lose now as she's been going round like a hoover after the food I leave out for him.
I'm going to clean their room now. I can actually use a hoover!
Well I think I would be quite encouraged by this vet consult. I think it sounds as though she is a caring vet, plus I would be happy with leaving him there for the afternoon for them to attempt their diagnostics, in addition to being pleased at the diagnostics they will be attempting. The offer of a referral is also positive too.
Lots of thoughts for Millie too. She is a faithful support to him even if she does pinch his food!
Lots of thoughts for Millie too. She is a faithful support to him even if she does pinch his food!
InspectorMorse
Wise Old Thumper
It sounds as though the Vet you saw is quite on the ball and much respect to her for being open about knowledge limitation and the offer of a referral. I hope the diagnostics give some useful information. I am sure the fluids will help him feel better within himself. Topping up the vibes for him.
Moonstone
Warren Scout
She thinks he probably has lymphoma. 
I don't know anything about cancer in rabbits. He had the blood tests, he has been syringe fed a few times with no swelling and he's on a drip. He has been eating a bit himself, and Millie has been eating too this afternoon. His kidneys and liver seem fine on the ultrasound, but two lymph nodes in his abdomen are enlarged. She doesn't think he has an infection, his temperature is still normal and she says the next most likely explanation is lymphoma, though she said she knows a lot more about lymphoma in cats than in rabbits. She tried to look at his spleen too but it was hard to see, he has a lot of gas in his digestive system, which was interferring with the sound. She seemed keen to do a CAT scan or a biopsy either of which would mean a 'brief low dose' general anesthetic, I'm not sure I can see the point.
She wanted to keep him in overnight because he still isn't hydrated enough and she wanted to keep him on the drip. I didn't feel I could reasonably say no to that but I am concerned about mission creep, I really don't want him to be spending his last days in hospital. I went to see them there this evening and they both looked utterly miserable. Millie cheered up a bit when she saw I'd bought fresh leaves but went back to looking miserable. Archie was out of it, very drowsy, he has had some kind of opioid painkiller (I think it was, I'm not all that focussed and wouldn't that cause constipation?). He was slowly eating the dried leaves I'd bought but kept nodding off with them sticking out of his mouth.
The vet said it was difficult to say how long he has to live without having a clearer diagnosis. She was thinking maybe a few weeks and that I could have him at home and on painkillers and gut stimulants. Later I talked to nurse looking after them and asked her about hydrating him at home and she was saying that a drip is more effective, works more quickly and steadily than subcutaneous injections. She was telling me about her cat who'd died of cancer.
The vet said they were coping very well with being in hospital. They are in a room of their own, it's cramped in their cages but peaceful. The thing is, I think if you're not a rabbit person you can't read their expressions. I once showed my brother a picture of Millie looking delighted because I'd added extra space to their runaround system and he laughed at me and said it was a picture of a rabbit and how I could tell she was happy was beyond him. So I'm thinking that if you mainly only see rabbits in hospital maybe you don't understand that they are looking totally miserable?
I just want them home but maybe I should get a referral for them to one of the exotic vet places? Can lymphoma be treated at all or is nursing him until he is ready to go about all I can do?
I don't know anything about cancer in rabbits. He had the blood tests, he has been syringe fed a few times with no swelling and he's on a drip. He has been eating a bit himself, and Millie has been eating too this afternoon. His kidneys and liver seem fine on the ultrasound, but two lymph nodes in his abdomen are enlarged. She doesn't think he has an infection, his temperature is still normal and she says the next most likely explanation is lymphoma, though she said she knows a lot more about lymphoma in cats than in rabbits. She tried to look at his spleen too but it was hard to see, he has a lot of gas in his digestive system, which was interferring with the sound. She seemed keen to do a CAT scan or a biopsy either of which would mean a 'brief low dose' general anesthetic, I'm not sure I can see the point.
She wanted to keep him in overnight because he still isn't hydrated enough and she wanted to keep him on the drip. I didn't feel I could reasonably say no to that but I am concerned about mission creep, I really don't want him to be spending his last days in hospital. I went to see them there this evening and they both looked utterly miserable. Millie cheered up a bit when she saw I'd bought fresh leaves but went back to looking miserable. Archie was out of it, very drowsy, he has had some kind of opioid painkiller (I think it was, I'm not all that focussed and wouldn't that cause constipation?). He was slowly eating the dried leaves I'd bought but kept nodding off with them sticking out of his mouth.
The vet said it was difficult to say how long he has to live without having a clearer diagnosis. She was thinking maybe a few weeks and that I could have him at home and on painkillers and gut stimulants. Later I talked to nurse looking after them and asked her about hydrating him at home and she was saying that a drip is more effective, works more quickly and steadily than subcutaneous injections. She was telling me about her cat who'd died of cancer.
The vet said they were coping very well with being in hospital. They are in a room of their own, it's cramped in their cages but peaceful. The thing is, I think if you're not a rabbit person you can't read their expressions. I once showed my brother a picture of Millie looking delighted because I'd added extra space to their runaround system and he laughed at me and said it was a picture of a rabbit and how I could tell she was happy was beyond him. So I'm thinking that if you mainly only see rabbits in hospital maybe you don't understand that they are looking totally miserable?
I just want them home but maybe I should get a referral for them to one of the exotic vet places? Can lymphoma be treated at all or is nursing him until he is ready to go about all I can do?
