Mucus-y caecotrophs (be warned: gross photos)

[joey&boo]

I'm so sorry you have all this ongoing worry about Casper & that his poops are worse today. Its horrible having to wait for a vet consult.

I've been trying to think about possible causes & wondered if perhaps his digestive system is irritated from long term metacam use? I think in the past they used rantidine, then that got discontinued & Cisparade (prob spelt wrong) took its place. If Casper isn't already on something to protect his stomach it might be worth a mention.

Loads of vibes for Casper & for you too

 

[a reader of books]

I'm so sorry you have all this ongoing worry about Casper & that his poops are worse today. Its horrible having to wait for a vet consult.

I've been trying to think about possible causes & wondered if perhaps his digestive system is irritated from long term metacam use? I think in the past they used rantidine, then that got discontinued & Cisparade (prob spelt wrong) took its place. If Casper isn't already on something to protect his stomach it might be worth a mention.

Loads of vibes for Casper & for you too

Thank you for caring and thinking along and the vibes, j&b. The waiting is awful, you're right.

You know what, the vet mentioned that when he called on Monday, that it might be Casper's Metacam, but he said that he thought the grass was a more likely explanation, but he hasn't had fresh grass in more than a week now and is getting worse, so I'm not sure. I'll ask about it on Tuesday, and if they think something to protect his stomach could be useful. He's been on Metacam for about 7 years now, more than half his life, so it's quite possible that it's causing some irritation after so long, I think. I wonder how far Metacam makes it into the gut? Because I feel like the problem started in his caecum, since it was only mucus-y cecos at first...

 

[joey&boo]

Thank you for caring and thinking along and the vibes, j&b. The waiting is awful, you're right.

You know what, the vet mentioned that when he called on Monday, that it might be Casper's Metacam, but he said that he thought the grass was a more likely explanation, but he hasn't had fresh grass in more than a week now and is getting worse, so I'm not sure. I'll ask about it on Tuesday, and if they think something to protect his stomach could be useful. He's been on Metacam for about 7 years now, more than half his life, so it's quite possible that it's causing some irritation after so long, I think. I wonder how far Metacam makes it into the gut? Because I feel like the problem started in his caecum, since it was only mucus-y cecos at first...

Thats good your vet mentioned it, as now you've ruled out grass as the cause I'm sure they'll now explore their less likely scenario of it being metacam. I've googled lots & its defo a thing....that can come on at any stage apparently.

Keeping you both in my thoughts

 

[a reader of books]

Thats good your vet mentioned it, as now you've ruled out grass as the cause I'm sure they'll now explore their less likely scenario of it being metacam. I've googled lots & its defo a thing....that can come on at any stage apparently.

Keeping you both in my thoughts

That's really interesting. Do you maybe have any articles/web pages that I can read about it? I did some googling just now but I can't focus well because of anxiety, so it's not going very well.

Thank you.

 

[joey&boo]

I'll try for sure. I've been jumping on & off sites & see what I can find:
https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/drug-focus-meloxicam/ So RWAF just talking about risk of gastric bleeding (here I'm making assumption if something bleeds from a medication then that med has capacity to irritate - not necessarily with bleeding

there's loads of human sites where its says meloxicam can cause gastric acidity & to take with food, milk, ant-acids etc

this is a paragraph from Binkybunny forum, it doesn't sound like Caspers problem but the mod made this post
Metacam can affect the gut lining in the stomach, so it does have some possible GI side effects. I’d take her off the metacam and ask vet if that’s ok. You can give ranitidine (zanatc) to help with irritation in the stomach, but that’s also a gut motility drug so I honestly don’t know if it’d be a good idea.

Antibiotics can have diarrhea as a side effect. It’s when too many of the good bacteria are killed by the antibiotics and leave room for bad bacteria to start multiply and colonize the intestines. Probiotics can help with that. They should be given a few hours after or before the antibiotics to have maximum effect.

If your bun has diarrhea she might need sub Q fluids. Are there any round poops or stuck together round poops as well as the diarrhea? Is she eating?

There was more (not always bunny specific), I'll keep on looking in a more organised way

 

[joey&boo]

there are a few on here I found that talk of metacam potentially upsetting stomach

https://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/index.php?threads/dodgy-belly-from-metacam.77680/

 

[a reader of books]

Ah, that's very helpful, thank you so much for finding those for me! It's so kind of you. I hadn't thought of looking at human sites. I knew Metacam could affect the stomach, but I never realised it can affect the rest of the GI system and cause diarrhea like in that last thread you found. I'll definitely talk to my vet about it on Tuesday. I wonder if injectable Metacam would be better or if that has the same side effects.

 

[InspectorMorse]

Relates to humans but could apply to Rabbits

Meloxicam-induced enteropathy of the small bowel

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[bunny momma]

Sending you both vibes. My late Evan and Dash got Metronidazole when they had mucus in their poos and it subsided.

 

[a reader of books]

View attachment 1978

View attachment 1981

View attachment 1985

Relates to humans but could apply to Rabbits

Meloxicam-induced enteropathy of the small bowel

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ah, thank you for sharing those images and the article. They're very interesting and fit with other things I've been reading. I appreciate it.

Sending you both vibes. My late Evan and Dash got Metronidazole when they had mucus in their poos and it subsided.

Thank you. The article IM shared mentioned Metronidazole, too. I'll see what my vets think about it. It sounds like it could be helpful.

 

[a reader of books]

Does anyone know of a reason why Casper's mucus poops might only happen during the evening until early morning? He's fine during the day, no mucus poops at all then, but once it's around 8 or 9 they start again. I've been thinking it might be because he mostly eats his greens during the late afternoon, evening, and night, so I've given him nothing but hay and a little bit of dried plantain yesterday and today, and this morning his poops look better than they have in years. There's still a few misshapen ones, but most of them are nice and round and the same size, which is very unusual for him. They was still a bit of mucus, though. Definitely not as much as yesterday morning, but still some. I'll keep him on a hay-only diet for a few more days and see what happens. It's not really sustainable long term as it doesn't give him enough calories to keep his weight on. He hasn't been eating pellets for a few weeks now because he was barely eating hay while on pellets, but I'll give them back to him if he starts losing weight.

Edit: I forgot to say, he only had mucus-y cecos this morning, like when this started, instead of also normal poops with mucus. I thought that was interesting.

 

[InspectorMorse]

It will be due to the phase of the digestive cycle, which is very specific to Rabbits

The rabbit digestive system – how does it work?

Small herbivores like bunnies have a very different digestive system to ours – which isn’t surprising as they need to digest all that grass! In this blog, we’ll describe how the herbivore gut works and explain how best to look after your bunny’s digestive health.

supremepetfoods.com

The Rabbit Digestive System

 

[a reader of books]

It will be due to the phase of the digestive cycle, which is very specific to Rabbits

The rabbit digestive system – how does it work?

Small herbivores like bunnies have a very different digestive system to ours – which isn’t surprising as they need to digest all that grass! In this blog, we’ll describe how the herbivore gut works and explain how best to look after your bunny’s digestive health.

supremepetfoods.com

The Rabbit Digestive System

Hm, I don't think I quite understand... The first article says they tend to produce cecos at night and normal poops during the day, and I've often read that, but all bunnies I've lived with, including Casper, have produced cecos during the day as well, so I don't understand how that causes only the normal poops and cecos during the night to have mucus, but not during the day? If they're producing both cecos and normal poops both day and night? Am I misunderstanding something?

 

[InspectorMorse]

A certain amount of mucous will be held in the bowel until there is a lot which will then overflow out. Obviously all this is an unqualified opinion, but I suspect the primary problem is related to poor gut motility, especially within the cecum, which, for some reason, has become irregular leading to signs of poor peristalsis and over production of mucus probably due to inflammation within the cecum. Did he not have an episode of gut stasis relatively recently prior to this issue? Also, if his fecal poo has often been abnormal in shape that can be indicative of chronic poor peristalsis.

If the Vet palpates the cecum she/he might be able to feel some
abnormality/thickening/impacted cecal matter. Cecal impaction does not mean that the Rabbit stops eating and pooping immediately. It can be a process that drags on for weeks and can include some episodes of gut stasis which at first will respond to treatment. Abnormal oval shaped fecal poos often occur too, as well as mucus.

Peristalsis and mucus production is influenced by various factors including innervation of the GI tract, prostogladins and bacterial colonisation of the hind gut. So it may be that he only passes mucus overnight as that is the time when the ‘overspill’ occurs for him. He could strain to pass some of his cecals, thus pushing the excess mucus out too. Rather like as it can be when ‘breakthrough diarrhoea’ occurs in a constipated human.

Hopefully your Vet will be able to ascertain what is going on. A trial of cisapride alongside the probiotics might be worth a go. Also Omeprazole incase the metacam has led to some GI tract ulceration.Personally I would also want a full blood profile run to check liver function and for any other possible abnormalities. Whilst longterm use of Meloxicam is relatively safe at an appropriate dose it can impact on liver function over time. It is therefore important to monitor both liver and kidney function if a rabbit is on this type of drug for life. If the kidney function is compromised, as is common in elderly Rabbits, a lower dose of Meloxicam might be required as the clearance rate of the drug would be reduced and it would accumulate.

Also fecal analysis to check for intestinal parasites and pathogens

 

[a reader of books]

A certain amount of mucous will be held in the bowel until there is a lot which will then overflow out. Obviously all this is an unqualified opinion, but I suspect the primary problem is related to poor gut motility, especially within the cecum, which, for some reason, has become irregular leading to signs of poor peristalsis and over production of mucus probably due to inflammation within the cecum. Did he not have an episode of gut stasis relatively recently prior to this issue? Also, if his fecal poo has often been abnormal in shape that can be indicative of chronic poor peristalsis.

If the Vet palpates the cecum she/he might be able to feel some
abnormality/thickening/impacted cecal matter. Cecal impaction does not mean that the Rabbit stops eating and pooping immediately. It can be a process that drags on for weeks and can include some episodes of gut stasis which at first will respond to treatment. Abnormal oval shaped fecal poos often occur too, as well as mucus.

Peristalsis and mucus production is influenced by various factors including innervation of the GI tract, prostogladins and bacterial colonisation of the hind gut. So it may be that he only passes mucus overnight as that is the time when the ‘overspill’ occurs for him. He could strain to pass some of his cecals, thus pushing the excess mucus out too. Rather like as it can be when ‘breakthrough diarrhoea’ occurs in a constipated human.

Hopefully your Vet will be able to ascertain what is going on. A trial of cisapride alongside the probiotics might be worth a go. Also Omeprazole incase the metacam has led to some GI tract ulceration.Personally I would also want a full blood profile run to check liver function and for any other possible abnormalities. Whilst longterm use of Meloxicam is relatively safe at an appropriate dose it can impact on liver function over time. It is therefore important to monitor both liver and kidney function if a rabbit is on this type of drug for life. If the kidney function is compromised, as is common in elderly Rabbits, a lower dose of Meloxicam might be required as the clearance rate of the drug would be reduced and it would accumulate.

Also fecal analysis to check for intestinal parasites and pathogens

Thank you for explaining so thouroughly. I think I understand now. He hasn't really had gut stasis recently. Last time he stopped eating was in December, and that was dental related. He's had the misshapen poops since he had stasis a few years ago, though. The cecal impaction does sound like it might be what's going on, so I'll mention that to the vet, as well as the blood tests. Last time he had them his liver and kidneys were fine, but that was a while ago. The vet did check his cecos two weeks ago and that was all normal, he said, no parasites or anything, but not his normal poops. I'll bring some along tomorrow. Thank you again.

 

[a reader of books]

Casper hasn't had any mucus today, not since yesterday morning, and his poops still look a lot better than usual, not misshapen, no croissant-shaped ones, so I'm cautiously optimistic. I hope that doesn't mean his greens are the issue, though, because he loves them so much.

 

[joey&boo]

Casper hasn't had any mucus today, not since yesterday morning, and his poops still look a lot better than usual, not misshapen, no croissant-shaped ones, so I'm cautiously optimistic. I hope that doesn't mean his greens are the issue, though, because he loves them so much.

Great update. I'm with you though, I hope he gets his greens back soon

 

[bunny momma]

Casper hasn't had any mucus today, not since yesterday morning, and his poops still look a lot better than usual, not misshapen, no croissant-shaped ones, so I'm cautiously optimistic. I hope that doesn't mean his greens are the issue, though, because he loves them so much.

You must be so relieved Casper's poos are looking better. Sending vibes he will be able to eat some greens after he fully heals.

 

[a reader of books]

Thank you, j&b and bunny momma.

Unfortunately, he had mucus poops again this morning, so I guess the good news is that it's probably not his greens, so I've given them back to him. He's very happy.

We had his vet appointment today and might have found the cause, as he has rather big molar spurs. You wouldn't be able to guess from the way he's eating. But the vet thinks he's not chewing well and that the too-large food bits are irritating his tummy. So, he's going to have his spurs removed at the end of the week. Everything else was fine. His tummy felt normal, no impaction or slow-down or gassiness or anything. We talked about his Metacam possibly being the cause, as well as other possible causes, but she thinks it's most likely the spurs are behind it, so we'll see if treating those will make things better.

 

[bunny momma]

Sending vibes removing Casper's spurs helps his condition.