Is this what killed Betty?

[orangediva]

........and entire girls have a very high incidence of uterine cancer by age 4 (around 80% death rate?).

Apologies for quoting from another thread but I can't stop thinking about this. As some of you know I recently lost my beautiful Betty after a short illness (around 3 and a half weeks). She went from running around the garden with Dennis, her brother, to losing almost half her body weight and developing head tilt then starting to fit in that short space of time. Until two days before she was pts she was still eating , pretty much normally, a fact that concerned the vet greatly - he felt sure there was an underlying thing causing the rapid weight loss. She was treated for e.cuniculi and, after initially seeming to rally, it eventually became obvious that she couldn't survive this.

The thing is that I don't actually KNOW that she was spayed. I was told when we got her, aged 2, that she had been spayed before being handed back to the breeder and rehomed to me but the original owner didn't ever come up with any vaccination books or receipts for the operation, though they were supposed to be forwarding them to me. Dennis had obviously been neutered and I did discuss Betty having a "check" operation with the vet when we first got her but decided not to put her through it as the two were inseparable and Betty had not shown any hormonal or aggressive behaviour.

I chose to believe the original owners and now I have this horrible feeling that I let Betty down, I've had it since she died and can't shake it, now I feel sure she wasn't spayed and died of a reproductive cancer. She had just turned 4 when she died - was she one of the 80% quoted above. I know no one can give me a definitive answer but I'm really wishing I'd got the vet to do the surgery when I got her.

Here's my lovely girl, enjoying the garden last summer:


Now that Dennis is bonded with my other bunny, Bella, I'd like to get another pair of rabbits but I can't seem to shake off the feeling I let Betty down. Would you have gone for the exploratory surgery? Should I have? I really wish I had.

 

[joey&boo]

what a beautiful garden Betty had and what a gorgeous Dutchie she was.

I guess its possible she may have uterine tumours & the stress of that illness "activated" her EC but as you are painfully aware there is no way of giving a definitive answer. My feeling is your vet probably would have felt tumours in her abdomen but I honestly don't know. I do know you didn't let her down. Picking apart the should I's is a normal reaction to grief. Had I been in a similar situation (adopting a female who was allegedly spayed) I would have done what you did, consulted with my vet for advice & then followed that advice. I'm sorry her loss is hurting so much xx

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Apologies for quoting from another thread but I can't stop thinking about this. As some of you know I recently lost my beautiful Betty after a short illness (around 3 and a half weeks). She went from running around the garden with Dennis, her brother, to losing almost half her body weight and developing head tilt then starting to fit in that short space of time. Until two days before she was pts she was still eating , pretty much normally, a fact that concerned the vet greatly - he felt sure there was an underlying thing causing the rapid weight loss. She was treated for e.cuniculi and, after initially seeming to rally, it eventually became obvious that she couldn't survive this.

The thing is that I don't actually KNOW that she was spayed. I was told when we got her, aged 2, that she had been spayed before being handed back to the breeder and rehomed to me but the original owner didn't ever come up with any vaccination books or receipts for the operation, though they were supposed to be forwarding them to me. Dennis had obviously been neutered and I did discuss Betty having a "check" operation with the vet when we first got her but decided not to put her through it as the two were inseparable and Betty had not shown any hormonal or aggressive behaviour.

I chose to believe the original owners and now I have this horrible feeling that I let Betty down, I've had it since she died and can't shake it, now I feel sure she wasn't spayed and died of a reproductive cancer. She had just turned 4 when she died - was she one of the 80% quoted above. I know no one can give me a definitive answer but I'm really wishing I'd got the vet to do the surgery when I got her.

Here's my lovely girl, enjoying the garden last summer:


Now that Dennis is bonded with my other bunny, Bella, I'd like to get another pair of rabbits but I can't seem to shake off the feeling I let Betty down. Would you have gone for the exploratory surgery? Should I have? I really wish I had.

Betty was a beautiful Bunny and I am so sorry that you lost her Whilst it is impossible to say for certain why she died it sounds more likely to have been because of a Bacterial infection and/or EC. You have not let her down, you did what you felt to be in her best interests. For future reference an abdominal ultrasound can be carried out to see if a Doe still has a uterus/ovaries if there is any doubt that she has been neutered.

''Abdominal cavity

Percutaneous ultrasound via the flank allows visualisation of the kidneys and ovaries while a ventral abdominal approach is used for the liver, bladder and uterus''

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Man/LagomorphOverviews/Imaging_Rabbits.htm

We can only make decisions based on the information we have available to us at the time. As I said before, you have not let Betty down xx

 

[Zoobec]

I think it is only natural to worry in case we have done something wrong when we lose one of our furry friends. I have recently lost my Boots, and keep wracking my brains about it all but in reality they are very fragile and all we can do is our best and give them the best quality of life whilst they are with us.

There would be no reason to disbelieve that she was spayed, especially if her partner was neutered. And I am pretty sure she would have been noticebly very hormonal if she hadn't been spayed. I wouldn't have put a rabbit through an exploratory op unless there was a very good reason to have done so.

So I would try not to blame yourself for anything.

Hugs xx

 

[MightyMax]

what a beautiful garden Betty had and what a gorgeous Dutchie she was.

I guess its possible she may have uterine tumours & the stress of that illness "activated" her EC but as you are painfully aware there is no way of giving a definitive answer. My feeling is your vet probably would have felt tumours in her abdomen but I honestly don't know. I do know you didn't let her down. Picking apart the should I's is a normal reaction to grief. Had I been in a similar situation (adopting a female who was allegedly spayed) I would have done what you did, consulted with my vet for advice & then followed that advice. I'm sorry her loss is hurting so much xx

I agree with JB, a vet would most likely have felt tumours and of course I would have believed what I was told about a bunny's history - why wouldn't you?

Sending you loads of hugs. I do hope you begin to feel some closure over Betty soon, as it's really impossible to say what happened. What we do know though is that she was beautiful, had a wonderful home and garden with you, and is now at peace.

 

[Shimmer]

Sorry if this has upset you. There are always a lot of 'what if's' when you lose a much loved pet. She had a brilliant second chance with you, you covered all the bases, got her treatment when there was something wrong and gave her a peaceful passing - sometimes there really is no more we (or a vet) can do no matter much how we want to.

Exploratory surgery can have its own risks, especially if the rabbit is already quite poorly and you don't know why. X-rays and blood tests are possibilities, but may not always be useful. A post mortem exam can show up some causes of death, but may not be definitive and can get very expensive if lab results are needed. Maybe a chat with your vet could help. They can go through it all with you and hopefully reassure you that you both did what was appropriate for her. She had far more chance than many rabbits do, just because you cared.

I lost a rabbit last year. He lost weight, had tiny poo, but would eat. It was odd. We tried all sorts of things (EC treatment, antibiotics, teeth, etc). There was obviously something else going on and I decided that an x-ray on its own wasn't going to solve anything so he ended up in surgery. He had a huge growth round the outlet of his stomach so couldn't process enough food. It wasn't possible to tell that from normal physical examinations. It was not operable and he was PTS under anaesthetic. It wasn't something that was treatable or preventable but I could stop any further suffering, and can only take comfort in that.


Be kind to yourself. And go for another pair if you have the space and resources for them.

 

[orangediva]

You are all very kind. Sitting here slightly tearful at your kind words.

Shimmer you definitely haven't upset me - just seeing the 80% figure shocked me, didn't realise at was quite that high though I knew it was a high figure. The whole was she or wasn't she spayed question has been praying on my mind since we first went to the vets in January. The vet said he suspected something sinister underlying the weight loss but, as she was already obviously so poorly, he didn't recommend putting her through any investigations. He was pretty sure she had EC and he said they sometimes make an amazing recovery with treatment - and initially that did seem to be happening. He didn't mention ultrasound and I didn't realise they could use that to determine whether spaying has been done. I was suspicious because I just thought it strange that the vet documents weren't forwarded to me from the original owners but I guess there are a number of reasons for that.

Thanks again for your kind words. They do get under your skin these bunnies, it's so devastating when something happens to them, it's nice people here understand, friends generally aren't helpful as they just don't get it.

 

[orangediva]

I think it is only natural to worry in case we have done something wrong when we lose one of our furry friends. I have recently lost my Boots, and keep wracking my brains about it all but in reality they are very fragile and all we can do is our best and give them the best quality of life whilst they are with us.

There would be no reason to disbelieve that she was spayed, especially if her partner was neutered. And I am pretty sure she would have been noticebly very hormonal if she hadn't been spayed. I wouldn't have put a rabbit through an exploratory op unless there was a very good reason to have done so.

So I would try not to blame yourself for anything.

Hugs xx

I have been thinking of you as I read about Boots just after Betty had died and your tribute to him was so lovely. Hugs back.

She was never hormonal or aggressive in any way you are right - the vet said she would likely have been as well. Thanks for that.

 

[Zoobec]

I have been thinking of you as I read about Boots just after Betty had died and your tribute to him was so lovely. Hugs back.

She was never hormonal or aggressive in any way you are right - the vet said she would likely have been as well. Thanks for that.

Thankyou it is great to be amongst bunny lovers here for support, and other people can give their take on things too, which can be the way you would normally think yourself, but not when you are grieving and emotional xx

 

[Omi]

Lovely garden and lovely rabbit I am almost certain that in the same situation as you, I would not have put a rabbit through an exploratory operation. Particularly when I had been verbally assured that she had been spayed.

Rabbit illnesses and deaths can be very distressing for their owners and can induce tremendous feelings of guilt. A few years ago I adopted a Mum, Dad and two sons. A few months after they arrived, I opened the shed door one morning to find one of the sons not wanting to eat. Within a couple of hours he was fitting and died. The day before he had been happily playing, eating and behaving completely normally. Even so, you still wonder whether there was something you should have noticed or done.

 

[orangediva]

Lovely garden and lovely rabbit I am almost certain that in the same situation as you, I would not have put a rabbit through an exploratory operation. Particularly when I had been verbally assured that she had been spayed.

Rabbit illnesses and deaths can be very distressing for their owners and can induce tremendous feelings of guilt. A few years ago I adopted a Mum, Dad and two sons. A few months after they arrived, I opened the shed door one morning to find one of the sons not wanting to eat. Within a couple of hours he was fitting and died. The day before he had been happily playing, eating and behaving completely normally. Even so, you still wonder whether there was something you should have noticed or done.

I think it has hit me doubly hard because I also lost a rabbit in December - I found Rosie dead in her run the morning after Boxing Day with no warning at all, she had obviously only just died. She was running round the garden with Bella on Boxing Day and I watched her eat her veggies and pellets that evening as normal. There was nothing ( I could see) to indicate she was unwell before and not a mark on her when I found her. She was only 2 years old. I was incredibly shocked and did speak to one of the nurses at our vet as I was worried it could be the new strain of VHD. I seemed to cope better with Rosie's death for some reason - not because I loved her any less, I didn't, she was a real character. I think it's because I didn't see her suffer or nurse her through anything. I used to tell Betty I'd get her better so she could have another lovely summer in the summer in the garden and tell her I wouldn't let anyone hurt her when she panicked when having her medicine. I just felt very close to her. I know how I feel is probably normal, I'm sure I'll come to terms with things given a bit of time. I'm massively relieved Dennis and Bella have taken to each other so amazingly well, it's made a horrible situation slightly better. Thank you again everyone for your kindness.

 

[orangediva]

I have ordered a climbing wild type rose today to plant on Betty's grave to grow up the side of the walk in run and also a fig tree which will live in a pot on Rosie's (she is buried under my path). It's comforting to think they are still with me and Dennis and Bella so I wanted something nice to mark their graves. I've been looking at bunny memorials but haven't found anything I like yet - does anyone have any links to any?

 

[Jack's-Jane]

I have ordered a climbing wild type rose today to plant on Betty's grave to grow up the side of the walk in run and also a fig tree which will live in a pot on Rosie's (she is buried under my path). It's comforting to think they are still with me and Dennis and Bella so I wanted something nice to mark their graves. I've been looking at bunny memorials but haven't found anything I like yet - does anyone have any links to any?

The climbing Rose sounds lovely. What type of memorial are you thinking of ?

 

[MightyMax]

deleted

 

[orangediva]

The climbing Rose sounds lovely. What type of memorial are you thinking of ?

Well I was thinking of large polished stones - one each and personalised with their names and maybe a picture of them painted on. I'm sure I've seen something like this before but have been looking today with no luck, does anyone know what I mean? Was it someone on here who makes them, I just can't remember?

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Well I was thinking of large polished stones - one each and personalised with their names and maybe a picture of them painted on. I'm sure I've seen something like this before but have been looking today with no luck, does anyone know what I mean? Was it someone on here who makes them, I just can't remember?

Something like these ?

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/273...rch_query=stone pet memorial&ref=sr_gallery_4

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/277...rch_query=stone pet memorial&ref=sr_gallery_1

 

[orangediva]

Yes, they are a lot like the ones I saw - the smooth pebbles are, anyway - but I'm sure the ones I saw had a bunny engraved and inked into them. Perhaps I'm imagining seeing them!

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Yes, they are a lot like the ones I saw - the smooth pebbles are, anyway - but I'm sure the ones I saw had a bunny engraved and inked into them. Perhaps I'm imagining seeing them!

I dont remember seeing anyone on here who does that, but I'll have a search and see if I can find something x

 

[Jack's-Jane]

I couldn't find anything from doing a search on here, but I found this :

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/273465048/pet-memorial-head-stone-hand-painted?ref=market

There are many others on Etsy but they are all in the USA so the shipping pushes the prices right up.

 

[orangediva]

Thank you for the links. I do like those stone ones but have decided to wait and get the fig tree and rose in and then I'll decide. I might go for a hand painted tribute like those on Dandelion's Gallery.