GI Stasis questions - can there be a blockage if there's poo?

[katbun]

Hi again, need some support as Piper's gone in to stasis due to (presumably) the grief/stress of losing Joey, or possible dental issue. I've been to the vet a lot in the last few days as her behaviour and appetite got worse. She's off her pellets which is odd for her but up until today was happy to eat lots of hay.

Yesterday the vet prescribed metoclopramide as her poos were small, and since then her appetite has decreased (doesn't want hay) and her poos have gotten a lot smaller and fewer. Probably around 30 tiny ones today, and a few clumped ceacotrophs that she wouldn't eat. She's also on meloxicam.

My main question as she has eaten some treats and kale in the last few hours and her belly feels full, is can I proceed with critical care feeding with so few poos? If there are poos does that mean no blockage? The vet couldn't feel any blockage yesterday, but I understand blockages can occur after stasis starts. Her belly feels full to me but not gassy as far as I can tell, I've listened through a stethoscope and it's occasional quiet gurgling. I don't want to make her eat if there's a blockage but at the same time she hasn't eateen lots since her last syringe feed so I feel like she needs something to keep the guts moving.

As I know this will be a question - the vets didn't do a blood sugar test or an x-ray. I didn't push for it as she was pooing more normally and in large quantities yesterday. But they're a new vet to me as I've just moved and aren't on the RWAF list. Seemed to be asking all the right questions/ doing the right things other than that yesterday though.

Also her ears have been nice and warm all day, and she's alternating between being lethargic with more flops than normal, being very destructive of her straw house, and exploring the room. Just not hungry today.

Could metoclopramide cause lack of apppetite?

What do you think about syringe feeding her?

 

[katbun]

Small update I remembered I had some alfalfa hay in the cupboard and she's accepted to eat a bit of that.

 

[katbun]

Ok we have more poos now and they're slightly larger, although not back to normal size. Also still hard and with a slight sticky surface, and some of them are teardrop shaped. I feel that she must not have a blockage since she's producing a fair amount of poos. I will wait a little longer for any thoughts you may have and then I will syringe feed her again so she has a good amount of food in her. I don't know why she's not hungry, she is still taking treats but when I offered hay just now she picked bits up and threw them to the side.

We're going to the vets tomorrow whatever happens. I'm not sure if I should keep on with this local vet (2mins away) who have been pretty good, or try the nearest RWAF recommended one (30mins away). I wish we hadn't moved away from the one I trusted, but he seems to be on unexpected leave anyway....

 

[bunny momma]

How is her fluid intake? If the contents of her guts are dehydrated they will be more difficult to pass and be harder than normal. Though a slow gut often results in less moisture in the poo too. Did vet give any fluids?

I do not know the answer. Though more poo is a good sign. For future info, Metaclopramide should not be used if blockage is suspected. Did you get any for home use?

I am pleased she made more poos. I would syringe feed some critical care if she does not fight you too much. You can try making it a bit watery. Poo does not return to normal size until they eat more may.

Perhaps show your vet the info on glucose testing.
Sending vibes.

 

[katbun]

How is her fluid intake? If the contents of her guts are dehydrated they will be more difficult to pass and be harder than normal. Though a slow gut often results in less moisture in the poo too. Did vet give any fluids?

I do not know the answer. Though more poo is a good sign. For future info, Metaclopramide should not be used if blockage is suspected. Did you get any for home use?

I am pleased she made more poos. I would syringe feed some critical care if she does not fight you too much. You can try making it a bit watery. Poo does not return to normal size until they eat more may.

Perhaps show your vet the info on glucose testing.
Sending vibes.

Thank you for your reply I think I have freaked myself out reading about blockages. We lost Joey less than a week ago so I'm very anxious about bunny health. Perhaps I am stressing her out with my own energy.

She has not been drinking much on her own today but drinks lots when I offer it in a syringe. So I would say her fluid intake is okay, especially since most of what she's eaten today has been kale as well.

On tuesday the vet gave her subcutaneous fluids, on wednesday the vet said she wasn't dehydrated.

Yes I have the metoclopramide for home use. I am very much considering not giving a dose tonight. But then again she may need it? Overall I'm thinking better to hold off until tomorrow to see the vet.

She always fights me on syringe feeds. It's a good idea to make it more watery, I will try that. How much do you think she should have (in ml, roughly), she's only 1.8kg.

I am definitely asking the vet for a glucose test tomorrow and maybe an x-ray. Don't want to take any chances here. If the local one won't do it I'll go to the RWAF silver one.

 

[Mervinius]

Just wanted to say that my bun Pip totally lost her appetite when her partner passed in August. She was depressed. We were very surprised by her reaction. She would only eat treats. So we gave her more than recommended to keep her eating. I'd say it was about 2-3weeks of her not eating normally.
I would say as Piper is pooping, there's probably no blockage she's just feeling very stressed and not eating or drinking enough to keep things going. We had to go sit next to Pip to get her to move and do anything.

Obviously check in again with the vet tomorrow and see what they say.

 

[katbun]

Thanks for saying this. I don't know how to make things better for her. It's overwhelming to be trying to keep her eating all day. I've read more about blockage symptoms, and she is loafing and flopping rather than hunched so it doesn't seem like she's in immense belly pain. I'm giving her some critical care once she comes out from under the sofa. She hates syringe feeding and heard me mixing up the solution.

I'm looking for a companion for her but it takes a while to arrange visits, in the mean time my presence doesn't seem to be cutting it in terms of company.

 

[Mervinius]

Thanks for saying this. I don't know how to make things better for her. It's overwhelming to be trying to keep her eating all day. I've read more about blockage symptoms, and she is loafing and flopping rather than hunched so it doesn't seem like she's in immense belly pain. I'm giving her some critical care once she comes out from under the sofa. She hates syringe feeding and heard me mixing up the solution.

I'm looking for a companion for her but it takes a while to arrange visits, in the mean time my presence doesn't seem to be cutting it in terms of company.

Yeah Pip wasn't overly keen on our company, but she would eat from our hand. She wouldn't accept any cuddles etc. We just sat near her.

Is there anything tasty that she likes to eat like dandelion leaves?

Yes loafing and flopping sounds good to me. I'd try not to worry and just keep an eye on the poops.

 

[InspectorMorse]

Has she had regular doses of pain relief ?

 

[katbun]

Has she had regular doses of pain relief ?

Yes she just had her evening meloxicam (for dogs) dose, 0.5ml twice a day for the last 3 days. I wonder if this vet is lowballing her though, she's definitely been prescribed over 0.5ml in the past (she's 1.8kg now). I didn't want to up it by myself though in case it interacts with the metoclopramide.

 

[katbun]

Yeah Pip wasn't overly keen on our company, but she would eat from our hand. She wouldn't accept any cuddles etc. We just sat near her.

Is there anything tasty that she likes to eat like dandelion leaves?

Yes loafing and flopping sounds good to me. I'd try not to worry and just keep an eye on the poops.

It's good to remember that other bunnies have gotten through this. I know it just takes time. Hour to hour it's hard not to obsess over every bit eaten, every poo, every movement.

I have broken out every treat for her, she seems to mainly be keen on the dried nettles, dandelions, and chamomile. As well as the science selective timothy and carrot loops. She's usually happy to wolf anything down though, it's strange trying to figure out what she feels like eating in the moment... she refused banana earlier today!

 

[InspectorMorse]

The dose is OK . IME Cisapride is a more useful prokinetic. It works on the hind gut, metoclop’ just increases the rate that the stomach empties. Cisapride can be given alongside metoclop.

 

[katbun]

The dose is OK . IME Cisapride is a more useful prokinetic. It works on the hind gut, metoclop’ just increases the rate that the stomach empties. Cisapride can be given alongside metoclop.

Ah, I see, I have been reading about that, thanks for the recommendation. It's hard when some articles refer to brand names and other to chemical names. I'll ask the vet about cisapride tomorrow, maybe we can get some of that too. If anything it may help me keep gauging the rabbit-savvy-ness of this vet.

 

[katbun]

A broader question: if grief/stress is causing her to eat less, is the only end in site getting a new rabbit to her ASAP? Or do you think this stasis is a temporary episode that we can get her through, before starting her speed dating in the next few weeks?

 

[InspectorMorse]

I would just focus on getting her through this episode. Yes, a new companion will help in the longterm. But the initial bonding process is stressful and stress on top of gut stasis isn’t a good combination.

 

[katbun]

I would just focus on getting her through this episode. Yes, a new companion will help in the longterm. But the initial bonding process is stressful and stress on top of gut stasis isn’t a good combination.

I understand, that makes sense. I will hold off on taking her to meet new friends until she's feeling up to it. None of us are remotely over Joey anyway. The idea of another bunny coming in here makes me cry. But I would do anything for Piper, it's just hard to know what that is right now.

 

[InspectorMorse]

I understand, that makes sense. I will hold off on taking her to meet new friends until she's feeling up to it. None of us are remotely over Joey anyway. The idea of another bunny coming in here makes me cry. But I would do anything for Piper, it's just hard to know what that is right now.

Given that Joey’s previous health problems included evidence of previous exposure to EC it *might* be that his passing after a sudden seizure was a result of a flare up of EC. So I would ask the Vet if Piper should receive a 28 day course of Fenbendazole as a precaution. EC can become ‘active’ at times of stress, be that another illness, the loss of a bonded partner or moving to a new home.

I would also ask the Vet about biosecurity measures you need to implement when bringing in a new Rabbit to an environment where a known carrier of EC lived and who’s relatively sudden passing *might* have been due to an EC flare up.

I am not Veterinary qualified, but I would want to make sure that all in contact Rabbits received a 28 day course of Fenbendazole and that all areas that the Rabbit who sadly passed away had access to are thoroughly disinfected with a 10% bleach solution or steam cleaned. Steam kills EC spores and can be used on surfaces where bleach cleaning isn’t possible. Steam doesn’t kill all viruses though, so my regime would be steam clean then a thorough disinfection using Anigene Professional

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I would definitely not bring any new Rabbits in to the environment until this regime was done.


i hope that Piper is improving now. I am currently nursing a very sick Bunny in gut stasis, it’s extremely stressful, you have my empathy.

 

[bunny momma]

It can be difficult to assess hydration because the body pulls fluids out of the gut so tenting the skin does not give the full picture. Plus, fluids are good for flushing the by products of medication from their system.
I agree the Medicam dose twice a day is appropriate for a bunny her size. I also think the twice a day dosing is better than once a day based on my experience.
True blockages are not as common as other reasons for not eating, so I hope I did not cause you unnecessary worry about giving metaclopramide.
Sending you and Piper lots of positive vibes.

 

[SarahP]

I would definitely recommend syringing water and also peppermint tea. Back in the days of constant bunny stasis I used to find those the most important (as well as the prescription meds, obviously!) to encouraging the gut back to working properly (and then the appetite would follow).

 

[katbun]

Thanks for the replies, I will keep syringing water and see if there's any mint tea at the back of the cupboard. I got up half way through the night to give her water and she drank loads! not sure why she's lost interest in all the water bowls...

Couldn't get a vet appointment until this afternoon so I'm going to proceed with the metaclopramide this morning as she gave me a pile of poos overnight.