GI Stasis questions - can there be a blockage if there's poo?

[katbun]

Given that Joey’s previous health problems included evidence of previous exposure to EC it *might* be that his passing after a sudden seizure was a result of a flare up of EC. So I would ask the Vet if Piper should receive a 28 day course of Fenbendazole as a precaution. EC can become ‘active’ at times of stress, be that another illness, the loss of a bonded partner or moving to a new home.

I would also ask the Vet about biosecurity measures you need to implement when bringing in a new Rabbit to an environment where a known carrier of EC lived and who’s relatively sudden passing *might* have been due to an EC flare up.

I am not Veterinary qualified, but I would want to make sure that all in contact Rabbits received a 28 day course of Fenbendazole and that all areas that the Rabbit who sadly passed away had access to are thoroughly disinfected with a 10% bleach solution or steam cleaned. Steam kills EC spores and can be used on surfaces where bleach cleaning isn’t possible. Steam doesn’t kill all viruses though, so my regime would be steam clean then a thorough disinfection using Anigene Professional

ANIGENE PROFESSIONAL SURFACE DISINFECTANT CLEANER - The Vet Store

Anigene HLD4V High Level Disinfectant Cleaner has been specifically created to provide an economic, environmentally friendly and effective product.

www.thevetstore.net

I would definitely not bring any new Rabbits in to the environment until this regime was done.


i hope that Piper is improving now. I am currently nursing a very sick Bunny in gut stasis, it’s extremely stressful, you have my empathy.

I wanted to give her panacur as soon as we lost Joey. The emergency vet wasn't convinced it was EC and wouldn't give me any panacur to take home, which is fine, we didn't have piper there. On monday I made an appointment with the local vet, specifically to get panacur. Once I got there they told me it was out of stock, but that Piper was in perfect health so there was really no reason to give her any. By tuesday they had got it in, but Piper had started this stasis, and the vet said we should wait until she was through this as it would put unnecessary strain on her body. The vet on wednesday said the same. I don't see where they're getting this idea, I can't see anything contraindicating it's use in GI stasis. I had forgotten that EC flares during stress - I'm going to insist we get it today. Honestly every vet I've ever seen has been pretty dismissive about EC and hesitant to dispense panacur, I wonder why? I can't really find any side effects

This makes sense about protecting new rabbits. I'll ask the vets their advice today, but given they don't think Piper could have it, I don't know what they'll tell me. Thank you for all the explanations and links, and remembering Joey's previous test results. It means a lot to me to think that in a way I'm not alone in this.

It feels mean to clean away all her remaining smells of Joey when she's feeling so sad, but it has to be done I suppose. I'll try and rent a steam cleaner. When you say no new rabbits until the regime is done, do you mean just until the room is properly disinfected or also until Piper's finished the 28 day course? Do you think once she's through stasis and part way through the panacur it would be safe to go to foster homes to meet rabbits?

Final question I promise - all the reccomendations on this forum refer to the 28 day course, wheather it's treatment of clinical signs or preventative. On the panacur documentation, I can see they say that a 9 day course is sufficient for prevention. What do you think of this? Is it just a case of better safe than sorry? Obviously I'll ask the vet about this but I have a feeling they'll reccomend the least amount possible.

My thoughts to your bunny, may they feel better soon

 

[Shimmer]

I've always done a 28 day course of Panacur, with a deep clean on days 21 and 28 of treatment. That gives the greatest chance of reducing the parasitic loading and chance of reinfection as it hits at key points in the lifecycle of the parasite. As it's a fairly common parasite and with known previous exposure, it's the route I would take. I also treat all newbies with a 28 day course as it reactivates at times of stress.

You can get Panacur over the counter. I use 10% liquid (labelled for cats & dogs). I would, however, listen to your vets while you are dealing with stasis and wait until that is completely out of the way before you consider doing anything else.

 

[SarahP]

I hadn't picked up that there was potential EC here. My history of bunnies going in and out of stasis (long ago now) was absolutely all about EC. A course of Panacur used to improve things hugely rather than make the stasis worse. For my bunnies this issue wasn't picked up anywhere near quickly enough because the issues were all internal, without any head tilt or hind leg weakness etc. My uneducated view is a 9 day course is pointless and that 28 days is the way to go.

edit: there was also someone on here years ago who had very similar issues to me, and Panacur really helped there too.

 

[InspectorMorse]

“E Cuniculi is a microsporidian parasite that can infect the spinal cord and subsequently causes poor contractility of the stomach, which may result in GI stasis”

Gastrointestinal Stasis in Rabbits | VCA Animal Hospitals

Learn about gastrointestinal stasis in rabbits. VCA Animal Hospital offers professional guidance to help you ensure the health and happiness of your pet.

vcahospitals.com

I use this at a dose rate of 0.2ml/kg (20mg/kg) for 28 days (dosing advice given by my Vet)

Panacur 10% 100ml Liquid for Cats and Dogs - From £21.98

Worming liquid for use in adult dogs & cats for the effective treatment of roundworms, some tapeworms and lungworms. Cat & Dog wormer dosage: Dose: 1ml per 1kg. When used as a puppy wormer in weaned or unweaned puppies & kittens for the...

www.vetuk.co.uk

 

[SarahP]

“E Cuniculi is a microsporidian parasite that can infect the spinal cord and subsequently causes poor contractility of the stomach, which may result in GI stasis”

Gastrointestinal Stasis in Rabbits | VCA Animal Hospitals

Learn about gastrointestinal stasis in rabbits. VCA Animal Hospital offers professional guidance to help you ensure the health and happiness of your pet.

vcahospitals.com

[/URL]

So glad this information is now a bit more mainstream. Although, it is taking its time to get out there.

 

[katbun]

Wow thank you so much for this link, I had no idea EC could cause digestion problems without headtilt/weakness. I'm taking this to show the vet in a few hours and I'm not leaving the clinic without panacur. I should have put up top that there was potential EC, I was convinced by 4 vets this week that she could not have it. I'm so thankful that InspectorMorse remembered my post from months ago. Hopefully this will all work out, and maybe the vet will be more educated for the next bunny that comes through as well.

 

[katbun]

Post vet update:

The vet didn't know about the length of courses for panacur, but she agreed that she didn't know of any side effects and I could treat Piper if I wanted to. So I have the panacur and will start treatment today. She also examined Piper and looked at the poos I brought in, and reassured me she didn't have a blockage.

The vets have conferred and believe this is caused by a dental issue, based on her last x-ray (2 months ago) she had one lower tooth starting to grow down into her jaw. They want to look in her mouth under GA next week if she's not improved by then. I'm not sure I'm going to let them do that tbh, I really don't see how they'll assess the progression of that issue by looking in her mouth. They didn't suggest another x-ray. Hopefully she'll be recovering by then anyway, otherwise I think we'll go to the more rabbit savvy vet. Following the dental line of thinking they've prescribed 0.5ml/day paracetamol to supplement the metacam. Either way more pain relief must be good for her right?

Piper's very mad at me now so I'm giving her some time to sulk before making her drink again.

 

[joey&boo]

Just read through your thread. good to hear how well you advocated for Piper, I really hope the panacur helps her out

My vets advocate panacur use quite a lot - 10 day preventative, 28 day + when its thought symptoms are/could be EC related. I wrote so much about EC but edited it out, far too rambly, controversial, & I'm sure you don't need to know the medical records of everybun I ever owner I will share however that my little Noodle had her first EC symptoms (nystagmus & severe head tilt) within 24 hours of losing her sister

Well wishes for Piper











































...................

 

[InspectorMorse]

Post vet update:

The vet didn't know about the length of courses for panacur, but she agreed that she didn't know of any side effects and I could treat Piper if I wanted to. So I have the panacur and will start treatment today. She also examined Piper and looked at the poos I brought in, and reassured me she didn't have a blockage.

The vets have conferred and believe this is caused by a dental issue, based on her last x-ray (2 months ago) she had one lower tooth starting to grow down into her jaw. They want to look in her mouth under GA next week if she's not improved by then. I'm not sure I'm going to let them do that tbh, I really don't see how they'll assess the progression of that issue by looking in her mouth. They didn't suggest another x-ray. Hopefully she'll be recovering by then anyway, otherwise I think we'll go to the more rabbit savvy vet. Following the dental line of thinking they've prescribed 0.5ml/day paracetamol to supplement the metacam. Either way more pain relief must be good for her right?

Piper's very mad at me now so I'm giving her some time to sulk before making her drink again.

Personally I would make an appointment for the Rabbit Savvy Vet ASAP next week. I think Dental problems are still possible if a recent Xray showed tooth root elongation. BUT a GA when the Rabbit is in the early stages of stasis recovery, has recently been bereaved and *might* have ‘active’ EC would be a huge risk. IMO this has to be a case to be assessed by a Vet known to be Rabbit Savvy. Tell the RS Vet practice you are seeking a second opinion from them and they will request Piper’s records from your current Vet.

 

[bunny momma]

It is promising that she is eating enough to produce more poo. I hope that she will continue to improve and the possible cause(s) of her stasis can be addressed. I agree that you should seek a second opinion before putting her through a GA. Sending lots of vibes.

 

[katbun]

Guess who's accepting hand fed pellets now! (I'll give you a hint - it's not me). We're getting into more of a routine and I'm trying to worry less about her being so sedentary and refusing food during the day, she always perks up in the evening. I've adjusted my schedule to stay up with her very late to make the most of her active time.

I'm going to make an appointment at the nearest RWAF recommended vet clinic next week. Hopefully they should be rabbit savvy enough to help.

She does seem to be chewing carefully if that makes sense. Usually she inhales pellets and treats, so I am starting to believe this may be in some part dental. Especially since she started accepting pellets once her painkillers were upped. When her last dental was done (2 months ago) and the vet showed me the tooth elongation he said it could be a problem someday, and the treatment would be to inject something into the problem tooth's "root" to "kill it". Anyone have experience with this? Do you think there's a much higher relative risk compared to the usual burring under GA that she gets? Is this ultimately going to make the tooth fall out? He presented this as a separate option to extraction.

I know I'm asking a lot of questions and this site doesn't give veterinary advice I just don't have huge confidence if vets at the moment so I want to at least be asking all the right questions of them to understand their reasoning (or lack thereof). I am remaining optimistic that the new vet will know loads and really help sort this all out.

 

[bunny momma]

Well done getting her to eat pellets! It does sound like it could be dental related. I never heard of injecting a tooth to kill it; though even if the tooth/root stops growing I wonder if they also would need to burr it to reduce the amount of pressure the root puts on her jaw when she chews?
Sending more positive vibes for your girl.

 

[InspectorMorse]

Guess who's accepting hand fed pellets now! (I'll give you a hint - it's not me). We're getting into more of a routine and I'm trying to worry less about her being so sedentary and refusing food during the day, she always perks up in the evening. I've adjusted my schedule to stay up with her very late to make the most of her active time.

I'm going to make an appointment at the nearest RWAF recommended vet clinic next week. Hopefully they should be rabbit savvy enough to help.

She does seem to be chewing carefully if that makes sense. Usually she inhales pellets and treats, so I am starting to believe this may be in some part dental. Especially since she started accepting pellets once her painkillers were upped. When her last dental was done (2 months ago) and the vet showed me the tooth elongation he said it could be a problem someday, and the treatment would be to inject something into the problem tooth's "root" to "kill it". Anyone have experience with this? Do you think there's a much higher relative risk compared to the usual burring under GA that she gets? Is this ultimately going to make the tooth fall out? He presented this as a separate option to extraction.

I know I'm asking a lot of questions and this site doesn't give veterinary advice I just don't have huge confidence if vets at the moment so I want to at least be asking all the right questions of them to understand their reasoning (or lack thereof). I am remaining optimistic that the new vet will know loads and really help sort this all out.

In order to obtain a full view of the oral cavity of a Rabbit and identify and carry out any remedial work required a GA is needed. If the X-ray indicated elongated tooth roots (you can’t see the roots other than via an X-ray) then the crowns of the teeth (the actual teeth you can see when the Rabbits mouth is fully open) are going to need attention. This article would be useful to read

https://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Differential/Rabbit_dentistry.pdf

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I can't really offer any advice that hasn't already been suggested however I empathise on a bunny having GI stasis. I think you are doing a great job looking after her and getting the best care you can. Sending extra vibes that Piper gets better soon

 

[joey&boo]

How is Piper doing now?

 

[katbun]

I would definitely recommend syringing water and also peppermint tea. Back in the days of constant bunny stasis I used to find those the most important (as well as the prescription meds, obviously!) to encouraging the gut back to working properly (and then the appetite would follow).

Thanks for this recommendation by the way, she absolutely loves peppermint tea as it turns out!

 

[katbun]

How is Piper doing now?

In terms of stasis - much better. We're weaning off the metoclopramide and the poos are getting back to normal. However this makes her tooth pain more apparent, despite all the painkillers. She is eating hay, pellets, and veggies (and lots of treats) but noticeably eats more once each dose kicks in. I've ended up booking her in for a dental with our old vet on Monday. It's about an hours drive each way so not ideal, but I just feel like I can trust his experience with tooth elongation.

 

[joey&boo]

In terms of stasis - much better. We're weaning off the metoclopramide and the poos are getting back to normal. However this makes her tooth pain more apparent, despite all the painkillers. She is eating hay, pellets, and veggies (and lots of treats) but noticeably eats more once each dose kicks in. I've ended up booking her in for a dental with our old vet on Monday. It's about an hours drive each way so not ideal, but I just feel like I can trust his experience with tooth elongation.

I'd do the same I think, travel further to see my trusted vet. Everytime I tried to find a more local vet I ended up regretting it, mines an hour away too (& on crappy roads too which my wobbly old buns hated) . Your instincts sound right. I'm pleased to hear she is eating better though, keeping her strength up for her dental. I hope all goes well on Monday

 

[katbun]

It's hard to tell if her strength's up, she's been doing zoomies in the evening and getting quite out of breath. Then again she is nearly 8, and I'm pretty happy she's zooming at all and not too depressed to play. Hopefully this time next week I'll be booking her speed dates with the eligible bunny bachelors of the north east.

 

[bunny momma]

Sending positive vibes for her dental and recovery. Zoomies sound like a positive!