Death penalty

[LoopyLouie]

Why do you always have to make things personal?! It's donna's type of mentality that undermines some of the better arguments, like shes in the wrong for feeling the way she does :roll:

All I meant was it's the retribution/revenge mentality natural to all of us that prevents the death penalty being workable, it was not in anyway personal.

 

[Charys]

like shes in the wrong for feeling the way she does

I don't think Donna is wrong for feeling anger, unhappiness, panic or any sort of emotional turmoil that follows the appalling crime against her. I think though that wanting death as revenge, is wrong.Even most of those people who have argued for the death penalty throughout this thread have said that exacting revenge is not a valid reason for state killing of criminals.

 

[Lib_n_bunny]

isn't back peddling a curious term. Cos if you peddle backwards it doesn't actually make you go backwards. Or is that the point? That back peddling is futile, much like trying to take back stuff you have said?

 

[donnamt]

:shock: Unfortunately it's this type of mentality that undermines some of the better arguements. I feel terribly sorry for what happened to you but even the pro group I would hope disagree regarding the death penalty here.

do you think i care what people think about me and my wanting that scum dead :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[*lily*]

I strongly disagree that there is a right and a wrong view on this debate. That's what makes it a debate

 

[Rosie Rabbit]

This has got quite ridiculous. There are lots of accusations of people "making things personal" when nobody actually was.

I did not get personal - at no point did I ever state I was disappointed in anyone as Lib_n_bunny seems to believe:

I agree, I hate when people are 'disappointed' in me, it's worse than having people angry with you.

I said I was "disappointed to see so many people believing that the death penalty is appropriate." And I am.

Charys has hit the nail on the head here in understanding what I was saying -

I think you made it personal, presuming that it was a slur on your comments, when in actual fact she was referring to the poll. She wasn't disappointed with YOU AS INDIVIDUALS, she was disappointed that in a poll more people weren't anti death penalty. So what. Talk about making a meal out of one word, that was not designed to cause offence. If you have strength of conviction about your stance then why should it even matter if one person feels disappointment/sadness.

I couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[VickiP]

I agree with you. I genuinely think there is a right and wrong in this arguement, no grey areas, and the death penalty will always be wrong, no matter how long someone wants to spend argueing for it. I will not apologise for this view as I truly believe the 'against' group are in the right here. It's not about being condescending or morally superior, it's about sticking by your view on a very serious issue.

I am sure that all the perpetrators of heinous crimes that are never going to be considered safe will be very grateful that people feel like you.

:shock: Unfortunately it's this type of mentality that undermines some of the better arguements. I feel terribly sorry for what happened to you but even the pro group I would hope disagree regarding the death penalty here.

Maybe if we extend the courtesty of 'understanding' how the victims of crime feel after their lives have been damaged through no fault of their own rather than concentrating on the rights of criminals - people wouldn't feel so maddened in society that their rights are way below the rights of the criminals in a lot of cases. Moral fundamentally are based on the principle of right and wrong - criminals are wrong victims are not wrong. If we are capable of 'understanding' how and why people commit crimes we need to extend the same 'understanding' to how those crimes affect people and their perspective of the world once they have suffered as a victim, I am sure that comment was made in the heat in the moment as a result of feeling quite angry - I can understand her feelings and I can also say until something happens to you personally maybe it is better to at least keep an open mind about some things. I honestly do understand the reasoning for being against the death penalty but, I think that in some cases it would apply, I would also hazard a guess that if your child was taken and raped and tortured to death your feelings may well be different. There is a grey area in every debate - people have different experiences and different views as I said before and everyone's opinion is valid and they are entitled to it.

 

[nursecroft]

When they are guilty beyond any doubt put the evil down.

 

[nursecroft]

I agree with you. I genuinely think there is a right and wrong in this arguement, no grey areas, and the death penalty will always be wrong, no matter how long someone wants to spend argueing for it. I will not apologise for this view as I truly believe the 'against' group are in the right here. It's not about being condescending or morally superior, it's about sticking by your view on a very serious issue.

Well i disagree with you, and i genuinely think im right too, i will not apologise for my view either. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, i see your point but it doesnt change how i feel.

 

[LoopyLouie]

Well i disagree with you, and i genuinely think im right too, i will not apologise for my view either. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, i see your point but it doesnt change how i feel.

Not expecting you to But I can honestly not see how taking a life can ever be considered the right thing to do, killing another is wrong, simple as that.

 

[abbymarysmokey]

I honestly do understand the reasoning for being against the death penalty but, I think that in some cases it would apply, I would also hazard a guess that if your child was taken and raped and tortured to death your feelings may well be different.

Exactly! Well said Vicki :thumb:

I'm currently against the death penalty, but I'm also very aware that my feelings might change if one of my family was the victim of a terrible crime.

You can't possibly say how you'd feel unless you've been there, so I keep an open mind on the situation.


Some people are saying that a civilized society doesn't have the death penalty...but IMO a civilized society protects its citizens from people known to be dangerous, or who have a previous history of committing terrible crimes

 

[Rosie Rabbit]

I honestly do understand the reasoning for being against the death penalty but, I think that in some cases it would apply, I would also hazard a guess that if your child was taken and raped and tortured to death your feelings may well be different.

This has been covered much earlier in the thread. Of course you'd want revenge, but you can't base a decision to take someone's life on that.

This arguement is completely flawed yet it rears it's head everytime. Of course people would be out for revenge, if someone killed someone close to me the natural instinct, I'm sure, would be retribution, but legalising the killing of another human being cannot be based on such things as base instincts, society may aswell be run by vigilante mobs.

I agree that if it was my family then it's more than possible I'd want to kill them too, but surely that just proves that the process is based on revenge, not on any impartial moral standard.

 

[Rosie Rabbit]

Some people are saying that a civilized society doesn't have the death penalty...but IMO a civilized society protects its citizens from people known to be dangerous, or who have a previous history of committing terrible crimes

Yes, by locking them up for a very long time.

 

[LoopyLouie]

What do you think should happen to the people that did that to Donna then?

I think they should be locked up in harsh conditions for a very long time without luxuries, should be made to know exactly what they have done to their victims and be made to
compensate Donna and others like them in some way.

 

[LoopyLouie]

isn't back peddling a curious term. Cos if you peddle backwards it doesn't actually make you go backwards. Or is that the point? That back peddling is futile, much like trying to take back stuff you have said?

Was that aimed at me? Because of it was please don't asssume that's what I'm doing, I stick by every comment I've made on here, perhaps you meant 'clarifying' where some have chosen to take things the wrong way?

 

[LoopyLouie]

Maybe if we extend the courtesty of 'understanding' how the victims of crime feel after their lives have been damaged through no fault of their own rather than concentrating on the rights of criminals - people wouldn't feel so maddened in society that their rights are way below the rights of the criminals in a lot of cases. Moral fundamentally are based on the principle of right and wrong - criminals are wrong victims are not wrong. If we are capable of 'understanding' how and why people commit crimes we need to extend the same 'understanding' to how those crimes affect people and their perspective of the world once they have suffered as a victim, I am sure that comment was made in the heat in the moment as a result of feeling quite angry - I can understand her feelings and I can also say until something happens to you personally maybe it is better to at least keep an open mind about some things. I honestly do understand the reasoning for being against the death penalty but, I think that in some cases it would apply, I would also hazard a guess that if your child was taken and raped and tortured to death your feelings may well be different. There is a grey area in every debate - people have different experiences and different views as I said before and everyone's opinion is valid and they are entitled to it.

Please do not presume that just because I don't bring personal experience into this and discuss it on an open forum that I have not been a victim of crime, I have, nothing as serious as murder thank god, but something very serious happened to someone very close to me a few years back, the person who did it is now behind bars, thank god. As a child I also went through something very similar to someone on here so please don't assume I am only seeing this from one side.

 

[Charys]

Yes, by locking them up for a very long time.

...and if neccessary...for the rest of their lives.

 

[nursecroft]

Not expecting you to But I can honestly not see how taking a life can ever be considered the right thing to do, killing another is wrong, simple as that.

So you suggest we spend our hard earned money on keeping these evil 'things' in comfort for the rest of their lives, or rehabiltate them so they can go out, have a new identity and life and walk past you and your family in the street?? :? I think we have become too soft with nasty pieces of work that believe its ok to kill, torture, rape innocent people, they dont care if they end up in prison, infact alot openly admit thats where they want to end up!!

 

[nursecroft]

...and if neccessary...for the rest of their lives.

Yep and we all pay the bills, keep a roof over their head and food in their tummies.

People think its ok to put a dog down that kills a child, they are no different in my opinion, infact i feel sorry for the dog so i guess they are much lower.

 

[leeanderin]

I voted in favour but then again i think i would rather see the scumbags spend the rest of their lifes on their own in a 6ft square cell with a bucket for a toilet. None of this plasma tv, playstations etc. They complain about their human rights but imo when you commit a crime, particularly rape, murder etc you should automatically lose them.