What to do! U/D splitting his dose.

[lilbun]

Better today after a worrisome day yesterday again where he did NO droppings after around 10am until 6pm ish! and his bottom smelt awful!! :shock: No mess on it, he just smelt really dysbiotic :? We were out all day but popped back to check on him at lunchtime. It was odd because he was much more full of beans, warm ears and would eat anything we gave him, lovely full tummy.... just think he got a bit constipated. When we got back around half 5 Mr PL discovered he had a normal dropping and piece of apple bark which appeared to be 'blocking' his special hole! :shock::? Anyway, he was eating caecs straight directly and still eating and full of beans despite the smell. Mr PL made him sit in the tray and eat hay for half an hour at which point he finally passed a whole load of droppings... all normal... but by god did they smell! I had to leave the room! :lol: Suspect the cabbage the day before did it. Poppy also had a bit of dysbiosis again as I did let her eat some too :no:

The fact he was much better in himself yesterday we are certain is temp related. It was no lower than 5 degrees all day and the difference REALLY shows. I think zero and sub zero is when he struggles.
Because it was warmer and drier they had loads of play time in the garden both morning and evening and this in itself has done wonders for both their gut movements. Today they are both producing loads of droppings again, even Poppy.

We have also made another discovery. With all the moving furniture etc and squashing the piano into the room and the sitting room half full of flatpack and boxes we had to squash the willow den in next to the litter tray. This means the ONLY way to get to the tray is through the den.... it suddenly occured to me last night that Poppy in her den is like the troll under the bridge - anytime Nino goes near it she chases him off mostly when we are there - redirected aggression. So not only has it prevented him from doing circuits around the sofa (the only place he can do them with the study full of stuff too) but it has put him off going to his hay basket or tray to eat because she does bully him. We took the willow den away this morning and he has not stopped going in the tray and eating from the basket!
Poppy unfortunately has to make do with snoozing behind the sofa or under the table now, but once the study is clear she can go back to snoozing in there. With now a clear access to the tray where he doesn't have to hop past the grumpy troll things are already much better in terms of him eating more and wanting to. No doubt the split dose is kicking in too!

Why are so many bunny problems a combination of health AND behaviour! :roll: One needs a PhD to figure some of them out, although it seems obvious now doesn't it! :roll:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, especially with bunnies....

Norty Poppy, henpecking Mr Nino and not letting him go to his tray- I'm glad you figured it out in the end. Hopefully he will be back on course now xx

 

[helgalush]

I am glad things are a little better now. I know what you mean about a PHD to read their behaviour and all the potential and actual things that are/might be wrong and how to tell and etc etc. I know my buns have a fraction of the problems that other people's bunnies do but even so working out what is going on and why is very confusing sometimes.

Bunnies - they are way too clever for me! :lol:

 

[prettylupin]

Well yesterday, after a promising start, was another day of no poop or munching all day long until evening again. A pattern seems to have established, not one i'm particularly happy with but they both seem to have stopped munching during the day, maybe it's just 'winter' and winding down :? By evening they're both back to munching, and again this morning both not stopped.... and no doubt today will be the same, they will just snooze all day, no munching and no poops from either of them, the first ones he does in the evening are small and dry and then it all gets going. I could prompt him and put him in the tray until the cows come home but it makes no difference, he nibbles a bit or just hops out again. Given up with the gut drugs, it makes no difference to this afternoon pattern.

 

[fluffiebunnie]

Hopefully it is just the pattern for poops now... and everything will be fine. Sending lots of pooping vibes your way

 

[thumps_]

I should have known that when you've got problems with your buns, they're far from straightforward PL!
Are Nino's poops any less "offensive" today?

I wonder about continuing the Zantac for a bit longer to make sure that the caecum keeps moving?

 

[prettylupin]

I should have known that when you've got problems with your buns, they're far from straightforward PL!
Are Nino's poops any less "offensive" today?

I wonder about continuing the Zantac for a bit longer to make sure that the caecum keeps moving?

Oh the smell went as soon as he passed those normal droppings that evening. I wonder now if he was just very farty after the cabbage This is not the first time he's smelt (not his poop) just his back end (with no mess) when he's had a slowdown, not always but certainly several times in the past and on each of those occasions he's passed a very small amount of malformed caecal matter/dropping (can't tell actually which it is). This time he didn't, just normal droppings that smelt very strongly/cabbagey! :lol:

Funny thing is his caecum seems ok, and continues to function even when the rest of his tum is in ileus. During the day when recently he has not been eating nor passing droppings, he continues to snack on special bunny food Which is why we don't panic too much despite the lack of droppings. Nino has never really produced normal caecs I don't think :? The only thing he eats from his rear directly is always chewy, never swallowed whole and he has not produced a bunch of grapes since he first arrived 4 yrs ago and we took him off pelleted feed. What he 'appears' to eat unless we really are missing something is something caecal akin to a soft chewy dropping :?
Poppy on the other hand swallows what she consumes instantly. I don't think Nino has a normal bowel really, he produces 3x as many waste droppings as Poppy (far less efficient) even though he weighs a lot less and is half her size in stature, she can be fine and produce hardly any if she is not moving about much - she is very efficient at extracting as much as possible from her food. His bowel rhythm is also odd and he often poops a huge pile whilst dozing as well as whilst eating.
Before the normal droppings begin in the evening they first ones are tiny and dry, classic ileus from the daytime of slowdown but whatever we try we can not stimulate or change this - he has always been this way, just recently it is worse coinciding with the cold weather, reduced exercise and increased pain from arthritis.

 

[thumps_]

I'll need to mull over most of that PL.
What I can say is that although buns make chewing movements with their caecs
(Thumper does too & also when he drink water!) they go down whole. It's described in "The private life of the Rabbit".

The odd thing about Thumps with his water is that if he doesn't chew, it sounds difficult to swallow - a gulping sound. Then he stops drinking & I Know he needs a dental. I must find out if chewing helps to initiate the 1st. phase of swallowing! I don't know too much!

 

[prettylupin]

I'll need to mull over most of that PL.
What I can say is that although buns make chewing movements with their caecs
(Thumper does too & also when he drink water!) they go down whole. It's described in "The private life of the Rabbit".

The odd thing about Thumps with his water is that if he doesn't chew, it sounds difficult to swallow - a gulping sound. Then he stops drinking & I Know he needs a dental. I must find out if chewing helps to initiate the 1st. phase of swallowing! I don't know too much!

One book that is missing from my collection and I wish that I had a copy. That sounds like a very sensible explanation - why didn't I think of that! Thank you, I can imagine that a chewing reflex will occur even if nothing to chew. :wave:

ETA mind you when I say chewy, I mean he will literally chew with his mouth open for a good 10 seconds, not just a few jaw movements like Poppy does (the chewing I think you mean). So I am a little confused as to what he actually produces. :?

 

[thumps_]

In private life of the rabbit they observed chewing movements with caecs for any period of time up to a minute. At pm the caecs were intact still with their mucus membrane in the stomach.

My boy is currently eating most of his caecs but leaving "dirty botty marks" every where, with some very runny stuff. So I don't know what's really going on either!!!

ETA It's a pretty tough book to read, about wild rabbit behaviour. I was impressed that although "scientific" with the colony tagged for identification, the researchers noticed marked personality differences & named the buns accordingly Big Boss, Bold Benjamin, Tired Willy.

 

[prettylupin]

In private life of the rabbit they observed chewing movements with caecs for any period of time up to a minute. At pm the caecs were intact still with their mucus membrane in the stomach.

My boy is currently eating most of his caecs but leaving "dirty botty marks" every where, with some very runny stuff. So I don't know what's really going on either!!!

That is fascinating and very informative thank you so much. I can't wait to tell Mr PL that (how sad is that! :lol

Poppy pretty much always leaves dirty botty marks. The only time she hasn't is when we were at my dad's and they had all weeds and no shop veg at all, but as I can't do that here dirty botty marks is the compromise we put up with, I can't just feed her hay forever. She also has long fur so drops them often before eating, and I guess if they are slightly dysbiotic then they are much more sticky.
Poor Thumps, really hope he stabilises out again soon xx

 

[prettylupin]

[/B]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, especially with bunnies....

Norty Poppy, henpecking Mr Nino and not letting him go to his tray- I'm glad you figured it out in the end. Hopefully he will be back on course now xx

She's very norty indeed! Would you like to swap her for TPC? Cos I know how much you are missing having a norty bun around! :wave:

 

[purplebumble]

missing a BWA...be careful what you wish for:lol:

aww i hope he feels better soon. weve got merlin still in stasis but hes begging for food and eating hay....but still the teenyweeny poops.....and today...sticky bum prints....also from bertie too

merlins got to lose 10% of his body weight as the vets need to assess the supposed necrotic fatty lump for surgery etc.
i should have known it was more than usual gi as he was smelling like a hoomin bottom burp!!

does anyone do bunny acupuncture or anything..pet plan cover a chunk of treatment of the complimentary kind.

 

[thumps_]

We haven't heard about Nino for too long. How are your two buns?

 

[prettylupin]

We haven't heard about Nino for too long. How are your two buns?

Aww thank you :wave:

We are doing fine thanks, sorry for not updating or replying to your email Thumps

Nino is doing MUCH better now he's settled into a split dose of meloxidyl, he really is so much better and very hoppy. The last few days have seen the floor they exercise on and spend their day using being painted and carpet up etc so they have had to stay in their hutch in the new bunny room and come out for runs around the new kitchen/diner, or outside if it is above zero - which isn't often!! :shock:
The new supposed to be grippy laminate floor is still too slippery so lots of rugs down and Nino is quite happy doing tons of circuits like a broken record, and full of beans, I let them out about 4-5 times a day for a run. Poppy however does not appreciate the temporary change in routine or exercise space and either refuses to come out or hops out as far as the back door mat and then runs back inside. Consequently, Nino has been fine, but Poppy has had a bit of slow down again from lack of exercise - self inflicted i'd like to add! :roll: However, last night she seems to have got herself back on track and today she was tearing around a very frozen lawn like a mad bunny, binkying everywhere. It was very cold today but if I don't let them out she does literally nothing and then gets ill, Nino also had a lovely time and kept moving so kept his joints warm. Hoping in a few days they can come back upstairs again.

Nino is having a HUGE moult at the moment too! :roll:

 

[thumps_]

:wave:Oh that's fantastic news.
It's great that Nino is having a big moult too, although it's perhaps not the best time of year for it.
It means that his tummy is so much better he can get enough energy to moult at last. Great news on both fronts. I'm really happy. Thank you.

I guess Poppy is so insecure from her previous maltreatment that anything upsets her. I'm sure she'll soon suss out the new system. I guess it's like being in a totally new place to her.

No worries about not finding the time to reply. I guessed you were very busy with Bump, Christmas & getting the house ready for Bump's appearance!

 

[prettylupin]

:wave:Oh that's fantastic news.
It's great that Nino is having a big moult too, although it's perhaps not the best time of year for it.
It means that his tummy is so much better he can get enough energy to moult at last. Great news on both fronts. I'm really happy. Thank you.

I guess Poppy is so insecure from her previous maltreatment that anything upsets her. I'm sure she'll soon suss out the new system. I guess it's like being in a totally new place to her.

No worries about not finding the time to reply. I guessed you were very busy with Bump, Christmas & getting the house ready for Bump's appearance!

Yes Judy all of those but am still very sorry
I'm having to rest quite a bit for lots of reasons, but am keeping track of Thumps on here and glad you got our Xmas card You are always in our thoughts x

Poppy loves her hutch and is happy with the bunny room, but she hates 'change' to her routine more than anything. She loves being in the garden though and comes alive, the rest of the time she snoozes on her heat blanket as if she were glued to it! :lol: Am so glad her tummy has recovered today, was worried it was ileus all over again. I honestly believe she slows her metabolism when she does nothing all day - the tiny amount of poops is relative to the tiny amount she has eaten and exercised, otherwise she is warm and happy.

Nino's moult is huge - we are keeping the downstairs VERY warm though so this could be a factor. The new stove upstairs (when they were able to be up there earlier in the week) makes a HUGE difference to his body temp at ground level due to the heat it emits - worth every penny, his ears are always warm now and he loves sitting in front of it - being half black he absorbs the heat.

 

[fluffiebunnie]

Glad Nino is doing well on his split dose x

 

[prettylupin]

Glad Nino is doing well on his split dose x

Thank you. Me too. It really does control the pain much better, as does keeping him warmer and moving.

 

[purplebumble]

glad theres been a bit of an improvement:wave: