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What to do! U/D splitting his dose.

prettylupin

Wise Old Thumper
Oh dear I don't know what to do with Nino at the moment :cry: This is probably me writing a rhetorical post as I know there isn't much more to do than am already doing but since the weather turned very cold we are struggling to manage his pain. He's been in ileus now for a couple of weeks but have managed to keep him going with a plate of grass at lunchtime and he snaps out of it by afternoon (the slowdown only lasts from mid morning - evening). But for the last few days his droppings have really decreased in size and quantity and to top it all off it is completely our fault for letting him play in the snow yesterday morning (for all of a few minutes) - he loves to go out and run around and it's a catch 22 as without exercise his hips get worse as well, and it's only when the door is open to the garden that he really gets moving - in and out, in and out, he does circuits around the house... outside... then back in again over and over and it warms his joints and appetite for the day, it makes a big difference, except clearly this biting wind and the snow was just too much and has tipped him over the edge. :cry:

We've already upped his daily meloxicam a little this last week, but last night he was really in pain (after the snow in the morning - all our fault :cry::cry:). We had to max him out AND give him fluids and gut motility drugs as he was slipping into a bad place for him. He was bright as a button this morning, we've got electric heat pads and snugglesafes on in the hutch at night, the bunny room is kept around 20 degrees all night, but once again this evening he's deteriorated. I've given him another max dose today and am doing a course of gut meds but what else do you do? I can't pick grass as it's under inches of snow and am feeding as much dried plant stuff as we have stored here. He IS eating, but not properly and not without encouragement at times. Poppy is also a bit off colour with reduced droppings the last few days I don't know what is up with them both, lack of exercise and fur most probably. They are so much better when they can get out each day to play and nibble grass - being stuck inside does neither of them any good - but it's just TOO cold now.

My vet is away til the end of next week, and the only other vet with a clue on the latest for meloxicam doses for bunnies is only in tomorrow so am hoping if he needs it I can speak to her on the phone. I just don't know how many days I can do top level meloxicam without concern? The other vets wouldn't have a clue and would probably be surprised at his maintenance dose! :roll:

Oh god sorry for long post :oops::oops:
 
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Acupuncture ?

Eddie is struggling with his arthritis too. He is not a candidate for acupuncture though due to all his other problems :cry:

Eddie does seem to benefit from massage though. C showed me a few acupuncture points to focus the massage on. I do this for about 10 minutes 3-4 times a day.

Ed's is on maximum dose of Meloxicam- ie 0.6mg/kg. He has it in two divided doses as I have found that to give him better continuity of pain control.
 
I have no idea what to suggest but I'm sorry his arthritis is so bad right now. :cry:
 
Acupuncture ?

Eddie is struggling with his arthritis too. He is not a candidate for acupuncture though due to all his other problems :cry:

Eddie does seem to benefit from massage though. C showed me a few acupuncture points to focus the massage on. I do this for about 10 minutes 3-4 times a day.

Ed's is on maximum dose of Meloxicam- ie 0.6mg/kg. He has it in two divided doses as I have found that to give him better continuity of pain control.

Thanks Jane for your reply (and for getting through my horrendously long post :oops:) I'm feeling very worried about him today, not to mention guilty, how on earth will we cope keeping him going with a newborn in 7 weeks time as well! :cry:

I had thought about acupuncture after Liz's thread about Wesley but have no idea if my vets do it, or who nearby does :? I do think it sounds like a really good idea, same for the massage... but would need to learn how and where and somehow distract him to sit still long enough! :roll:

Is Eddie on the 0.6mg/kg dose ongoing? Nino's current maintenance dose has been 0.2-0.3mg/kg but today and yesterday had to go up to 0.6 just to get him to eat. I feel a bit better knowing Eddie's is on the same longer term? I will ask about dose splitting - I know our vets haven't been too keen in the past but it may be when my vet is back next week I can discuss it - again sounds like a good idea. Thank you Jane for your suggestions, I feel a bit better already. :):wave:
 
Eddie has been on maximum dose Meloxicam for almost 2 weeks. We think for him benefits far outweigh risks.

Thankfully Eddie's appetite and GI tract function are not really effected. Although his poo is occasionally smaller than normal.

Poor Nino, I hope he will feel better again soon xx
 
Eddie has been on maximum dose Meloxicam for almost 2 weeks. We think for him benefits far outweigh risks.

Thankfully Eddie's appetite and GI tract function are not really effected. Although his poo is occasionally smaller than normal.

Poor Nino, I hope he will feel better again soon xx

Thank you, that reassures me we can atleast manage as we are until I can speak to my vet next week if need be. Perhaps a few days will be enough to reduce the inflammation enough and keep his tum moving. :) x
 
Oh, I feel awful seeing this post from you. You're always the one giving the good advice etc - and now we can't help you. All I can say, which is not much help, is that your buns couldn't be in better hands, and hope that things improve.:wave:
 
I'm so sorry Nino is in pain :(I don't know what to suggest for you both, you're way more knowledable than me but wanted to stop by and say lots of vibes and hugs for you both ((())), just seems so odd seeing a post from you, I felt I should at least acknowledge your anxieties...hope things improve soon.
 
I am so sorry you are struggling with Nino :( Especially as you are always there to support others with their bunnies... you know so much more than me (as is evident from your help with Twinkle) so I cant offer any advice. What I can offer is support and to show I care for you and your bunnies.

I hope you can get Nino right xxx
 
My brain can't function enough to work out mg to ml :oops: so not sure what dose Nemo is on.

Wesley weighs 1.2kg and is on 0.4mls twice a day and has been for well over a month. He has shown no side effects and given that the only other option is pts I'm not really bothered about them as long as he has quality of life now.

Freddy was only 1 kg and he was on 0.4mls x 2 daily for well over a year and it caused him no problems what so ever. Again without it there would have been one cause of action for him.

Obviously i wouldn't recommend such high doses normally but if there is only one other option we feel we have nothing to loose with our bunnies.

I don't know if that helps at all :?
 
Thank you all for your kind words and suggestions :) I really do appreciate it more than you know, i'm feeling very distressed by all this this evening as i'm not feeling very well myself, my throat is so sore I can hardly swallow.
Poppy really hasn't done any droppings since this morning either so I've just had to give her some meds too which was a nightmare as usual and my poor bump is scratched to pieces through my t-shirt and now she is too stressed to eat anything... great! :cry:

Nino is atleast passing some droppings now after the usual collection of tiny dried up ileus ones that have finally made their way out, and he's nibbling hay from his basket by himself.... phew! Now i've just got to get Poppy to eat which she just won't do until she's ready, half the time I can't tell if it's her being ill or scared, she's just such a nervous bunny at times. I'm almost more worried about her now :cry: I have no idea what could be wrong with her.
 
Thank you all for your kind words and suggestions :) I really do appreciate it more than you know, i'm feeling very distressed by all this this evening as i'm not feeling very well myself, my throat is so sore I can hardly swallow.
Poppy really hasn't done any droppings since this morning either so I've just had to give her some meds too which was a nightmare as usual and my poor bump is scratched to pieces through my t-shirt and now she is too stressed to eat anything... great! :cry:

Nino is atleast passing some droppings now after the usual collection of tiny dried up ileus ones that have finally made their way out, and he's nibbling hay from his basket by himself.... phew! Now i've just got to get Poppy to eat which she just won't do until she's ready, half the time I can't tell if it's her being ill or scared, she's just such a nervous bunny at times. I'm almost more worried about her now :cry: I have no idea what could be wrong with her.

Vibes for Poppy too xxx
 
My brain can't function enough to work out mg to ml :oops: so not sure what dose Nemo is on.

Wesley weighs 1.2kg and is on 0.4mls twice a day and has been for well over a month. He has shown no side effects and given that the only other option is pts I'm not really bothered about them as long as he has quality of life now.

Freddy was only 1 kg and he was on 0.4mls x 2 daily for well over a year and it caused him no problems what so ever. Again without it there would have been one cause of action for him.

Obviously i wouldn't recommend such high doses normally but if there is only one other option we feel we have nothing to loose with our bunnies.

I don't know if that helps at all :?

It does help a great deal thank you Liz. Both you and Jane have given me some confidence that i'm doing the right thing dose wise, until I can speak to my vet next week i'm pretty much on my own with this.

Nino weighs between 1.5 - 1.7kg depending on time of year and has been on a maintenance dose of 0.3ml which we recently put up to 0.35ml. Last night we gave him 0.6 and then another 0.2 a few hours later (pushing it I know but his eyes were so dull and he just wasn't right). He's had another 0.6 today. 0.6ml for Nino is 0.6mg/kg roughly but we have permission for acute bloat to go up to 1ml on a rare occasion as he can't tolerate opiates. So last night 0.8ml was a bit of a high dose really but what can you do when he's in pain and it's minus 4 outside and the roads are all snow and ice and our vets are atleast 30 mins away!

We will keep him at 0.6ml over the next few days if he needs it, if not we will drop it back down to 0.35.
With both you and Jane doing twice daily split doses to manage the pain this is something i'm definitely going to enquire about next week. Thank you :)
 
We always give metacam twice daily, it works so much better. If it was me I would have no issues with giving a bunny Nemo's size 0.4ml x 2 daily even over a long period of time :)
 
We always give metacam twice daily, it works so much better. If it was me I would have no issues with giving a bunny Nemo's size 0.4ml x 2 daily even over a long period of time :)

Thanks Liz :) x

ETA up until now we've just been trying to do the minimum possible to manage the pain... but it may be that in winter that minimum just has to increase.
 
Thanks Liz :) x

ETA up until now we've just been trying to do the minimum possible to manage the pain... but it may be that in winter that minimum just has to increase.

The weather is very extreme at the moment, so maybe an increase until this particular cold patch has passed is whats needed.

I know Wesley was suffering more, which is why on top of everything else we are doing for him we have the radiator on 24/7 at full blast :)
 
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