Please could someone tell me if this could be anything apart from cancer

[Maizey]

Hello RU,as some of you may know I have continental giant rabbits that have suffered with coccidiosis.Oscar and Amber started to seem off colour in November of last year.I thought the cocci had reared its ugly head so started them on septrin.I didnt have enough to give them the 30 day course so asked my vet for a prescription.The chemist told me that it had stopped being produced in March.I went back to my vets and was given sulfatrim.After giving them the lowest dose I had to stop after two days because it was making them ill.This was the 2nd December.After that it was a daily battle trying to find them forage that they would eat.All they wanted was apple branches,bark only,hazel twigs,weeping willow,herb robert,course grass,yarrow & brambles.They wouldnt touch their pellets.Amber has always had very audible gut sounds and would always have to lay across one of the other bunnies.I thought she had thickening of the pylorus so went back to my vet to ask for the appropriate meds.Oscar kept blowing up like a football which my vet said was gas.I started them on cisapride,metoclopramide/ranitidine & metacam.The meds didnt seem to make that much difference so I was syringe feeding plus getting the only forage I could find that they would eat.All the forage pointed to gut inflammation.This went on until the 19th January when Amber suddenly went down hill.I was syringe feeding her in the hope she would pick up.She passed two black sacks which contained mushed up poo when opened.The following morning her temperature was 41 and her urine was full of blood.I rushed her to the vets where she was put on a drip but died shortly afterwards.I asked the vets to do a full pm so I could have some idea what was going on.The pm didnt reveal a lot but tissues sent to the pathologist showed she had leukaemia amongst other things.
Oscar was still very poorly so I took him to my vets where he was put on a drip,had bloods and a specialist did an ultra sound.I was allowed to take him home and carried on giving IV fluids via a syringe for three days until the drip had to be taken out.the scan showed he had thickening of the bile duct and the bloods point to cancer.He really picked up for two weeks but now he is blowing up like a football,his tummy is rock hard but he continues to eat while lying down.Every day is the same,we start with diarrhoea,then the mouse size poos,followed by the misshapen ones then the normal poos.At the moment he is on ranitidine,metacam and Co-Trimoxazole.My vets want him to go to a specialist for a CT scan to confirm he has cancer but I cant see there is any point in stressing him out for a procedure when there is nothing that can be done for him.
Please would someone kindly have a look at his bloods for me to see if there could be anything Im missing because I cant believe that both my bunnies got ill at the same time and they both have cancer.Im sorry if Ive missed something out but my brain is slightly frazzled at the moment.

http://s276.photobucket.com/user/bugsymalone123/media/20170213_200531.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

 

[Zoobec]

I don't have any knowledge of bloods etc, bumping up in case someone can help. I'm so sorry you lost Amber and that Oscar is so poorly. Thinking of you and sending lots of vibes for Oscar xx

 

[joey&boo]

I couldn't not reply but I'm sorry I have no answers for you. Its heartbreaking to have lost one bun & then have another so seriously ill. Sleep tight Amber & get well Oscar xx

I have experienced big co-incidences with rabbit health, I guess they can happen as strange & as sad as that is. For me I think I'd want the scans your vet suggested

 

[Santa]

I'm so very sorry, this is heartbreaking The only other thing I can think of is hepatic coccidiosis, that lurks in the bile ducts so could plausibly cause thickening there if there's been quite a big infection. That could also cause liver blood results to be out of kilter, although I don't know about any of the other blood results. It might be worth discussing swapping the co-trimoxazole to baycox (toltrazuril) as that is a much more aggressive drug at reducing the load. Hepatic cocci doesn't necessarily show up in faecal samples either so it can be very hard to diagnose. Really rooting for you xx

 

[Jack's-Jane]

I'm so very sorry, this is heartbreaking The only other thing I can think of is hepatic coccidiosis, that lurks in the bile ducts so could plausibly cause thickening there if there's been quite a big infection. That could also cause liver blood results to be out of kilter, although I don't know about any of the other blood results. It might be worth discussing swapping the co-trimoxazole to baycox (toltrazuril) as that is a much more aggressive drug at reducing the load. Hepatic cocci doesn't necessarily show up in faecal samples either so it can be very hard to diagnose. Really rooting for you xx

I agree, HC would be my thoughts too.

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Hepatic_coccidiosis_rabbits.htm


I had a Doe who came to me via P@H with Intestinal Cocci, she was treated and apparently recovered but she never thrived (low weight, 'pointy' spine, course dull coat). After about a year she developed all of the symptoms you describe. She was once again treated for Cocci but sadly she did not survive A PM revealed severe liver necrosis and a bile duct obstruction.

I am so sorry S, I am sure that you are distraught I think it would be a good idea to ask the vet about starting treatment with Toltrazuril, as suggested by Santa

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Toltrazuril.htm

Also, Lactulose might be useful as it can 'mop up' toxins that a compromised Liver may struggle to deal with

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8872452

https://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/lactulose-solution/prd-1b3 (you can buy it OTC from any high street pharmacy)

I agree with your thoughts re a CT scan, I would feel the same in your situation. I do hope that things can improve for Oscar, he is obviously a very poorly boy

 

[Maizey]

Thank you for the vibes Zoobec & Joey&boo.Thank you Santa & Jacks-Jane for taking the time to answer.In Dec 2015 I thought once again the bunnies had cocci so collected a five day sample which was sent off.The results came back with strongyles,which I thought was very odd.At the same time I sent a faecal sample off for Tess,my dog, the bunny poo hoover because I dont worm her regularly due to her being so allergic.Tessies results came back with Eimera! Anyway I started the bunnies on a 30 day course of panacur then had them retested.This time the lab came back with cocci.Since they have got ill ive found this information on panacur and wondered if it could have any relevance to their illness http://www.mybunny.org/info/fenbendazole-albendazole-and-oxibendazole/ .I said to my vet that we needed to have seven clear faecal samples to make sure the bunnies are clear.We got to number five which was positive but by now they were getting poorly from the antibiotics so I stopped giving them.I would love to know which strain of cocci the lab finds each time seeing that rabbits are meant to become immune once they have been treated.Ive also read that you can never get rid of cocci altogether but can reduce the burden.It always seems to rear its ugly head in Autumn,which makes me think that the cold weather etc lowers their immune system.I had another faecal sample,five days worth,sent away in December.It came back with stongyles again.I started them on panacur but then stopped because I wasnt convinced the lab results were correct.
I now have Oscar in the house so I can watch him like a hawk.He seems quite bright considering what the bloods are showing.Ive been growing wheat grass which I believe to be quite high in Iron.Ive been making this into a tea and adding avipro plus and milk thistle power.Oscar laps it up.Im trying,maybe in vain,to find plants high in Iron to help his anaemia.Short of a blood transfusion I dont know what else I can do.He is also putting on weight which is one small positive.
Ive asked my vet if this could be hepatic cocci we are dealing with and she is adamant its not.I thought that I have nothing to loose starting him on Co-Trimoxazole.Im waiting for the C&S on his urine sample to come back & will ask for the Toltrazuril. His urine is showing very high protein and bilirubin.Im also going to ask if they can show me how to do sub cut fluids as these should help flush out any toxins.Im going to the chemist later on to pick up the ranitidine so will get some lactulose then.When I was clearing out one of the cupboards the other day I found an out of date bottle of lactulose and wondered what it was for.You must have suggested it once before Jane for one of my poorly buns-Thank you xx.I wont give up on Oscar as long as he is happy.
Could an obstruction be causing his tummy to blow up and feel like he has swallowed a brick,periodically through the day?He still carries on eating so im not convinced its gas.I also wonder if he lies down to eat because it helps the food bypass a tumour?
Here are a copy of Ambers pathology results.I just cant get my head around that both of them got ill at the same time and they both have cancer.
http://s276.photobucket.com/user/bugsymalone123/media/20170214_064032.jpg.html
One of my brave Oscar http://s276.photobucket.com/user/bugsymalone123/media/20170210_070557.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

 

[Zoobec]

Not bunny relavent but I once had a goat that had coccidiosis, I thought we were going to lose her but once she was on the baycox (toltrazuril) she picked up and made a full recovery.

Oscar is gorgeous

I am sorry,I know only too well that life is just so unfair sometimes xx

 

[Maizey]

Not bunny relavent but I once had a goat that had coccidiosis, I thought we were going to lose her but once she was on the baycox (toltrazuril) she picked up and made a full recovery.

Oscar is gorgeous

I am sorry,I know only too well that life is just so unfair sometimes xx

Thank you for your kindness Zoobec.Oscar seems quite bright considering xxxx

 

[MightyMax]

Thank you for the vibes Zoobec & Joey&boo.Thank you Santa & Jacks-Jane for taking the time to answer.In Dec 2015 I thought once again the bunnies had cocci so collected a five day sample which was sent off.The results came back with strongyles,which I thought was very odd.At the same time I sent a faecal sample off for Tess,my dog, the bunny poo hoover because I dont worm her regularly due to her being so allergic.Tessies results came back with Eimera! Anyway I started the bunnies on a 30 day course of panacur then had them retested.This time the lab came back with cocci.Since they have got ill ive found this information on panacur and wondered if it could have any relevance to their illness http://www.mybunny.org/info/fenbendazole-albendazole-and-oxibendazole/ .I said to my vet that we needed to have seven clear faecal samples to make sure the bunnies are clear.We got to number five which was positive but by now they were getting poorly from the antibiotics so I stopped giving them.I would love to know which strain of cocci the lab finds each time seeing that rabbits are meant to become immune once they have been treated.Ive also read that you can never get rid of cocci altogether but can reduce the burden.It always seems to rear its ugly head in Autumn,which makes me think that the cold weather etc lowers their immune system.I had another faecal sample,five days worth,sent away in December.It came back with stongyles again.I started them on panacur but then stopped because I wasnt convinced the lab results were correct.
I now have Oscar in the house so I can watch him like a hawk.He seems quite bright considering what the bloods are showing.Ive been growing wheat grass which I believe to be quite high in Iron.Ive been making this into a tea and adding avipro plus and milk thistle power.Oscar laps it up.Im trying,maybe in vain,to find plants high in Iron to help his anaemia.Short of a blood transfusion I dont know what else I can do.He is also putting on weight which is one small positive.
Ive asked my vet if this could be hepatic cocci we are dealing with and she is adamant its not.I thought that I have nothing to loose starting him on Co-Trimoxazole.Im waiting for the C&S on his urine sample to come back & will ask for the Toltrazuril. His urine is showing very high protein and bilirubin.Im also going to ask if they can show me how to do sub cut fluids as these should help flush out any toxins.Im going to the chemist later on to pick up the ranitidine so will get some lactulose then.When I was clearing out one of the cupboards the other day I found an out of date bottle of lactulose and wondered what it was for.You must have suggested it once before Jane for one of my poorly buns-Thank you xx.I wont give up on Oscar as long as he is happy.
Could an obstruction be causing his tummy to blow up and feel like he has swallowed a brick,periodically through the day?He still carries on eating so im not convinced its gas.I also wonder if he lies down to eat because it helps the food bypass a tumour?
Here are a copy of Ambers pathology results.I just cant get my head around that both of them got ill at the same time and they both have cancer.
http://s276.photobucket.com/user/bugsymalone123/media/20170214_064032.jpg.html
One of my brave Oscar http://s276.photobucket.com/user/bugsymalone123/media/20170210_070557.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

This is not new info Maizey. I remember finding this out a few years ago. But perhaps not many vets realise this possibility? I know my vet recommended a double dose of Panacur for 6 weeks for my rabbits, and one had a severe reaction and I had to stop immediately. I think she had the best intentions, but no drug is without it's side effects.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/cuniculi/pyrimethamine.htm

You've had a tough time. I've lost a bunny to cancer, and it's heart breaking, as all losses are.
Hugs for you x

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Thank you for the vibes Zoobec & Joey&boo.Thank you Santa & Jacks-Jane for taking the time to answer.In Dec 2015 I thought once again the bunnies had cocci so collected a five day sample which was sent off.The results came back with strongyles,which I thought was very odd.At the same time I sent a faecal sample off for Tess,my dog, the bunny poo hoover because I dont worm her regularly due to her being so allergic.Tessies results came back with Eimera! Anyway I started the bunnies on a 30 day course of panacur then had them retested.This time the lab came back with cocci.Since they have got ill ive found this information on panacur and wondered if it could have any relevance to their illness http://www.mybunny.org/info/fenbendazole-albendazole-and-oxibendazole/ .I said to my vet that we needed to have seven clear faecal samples to make sure the bunnies are clear.We got to number five which was positive but by now they were getting poorly from the antibiotics so I stopped giving them.I would love to know which strain of cocci the lab finds each time seeing that rabbits are meant to become immune once they have been treated.Ive also read that you can never get rid of cocci altogether but can reduce the burden.It always seems to rear its ugly head in Autumn,which makes me think that the cold weather etc lowers their immune system.I had another faecal sample,five days worth,sent away in December.It came back with stongyles again.I started them on panacur but then stopped because I wasnt convinced the lab results were correct.
I now have Oscar in the house so I can watch him like a hawk.He seems quite bright considering what the bloods are showing.Ive been growing wheat grass which I believe to be quite high in Iron.Ive been making this into a tea and adding avipro plus and milk thistle power.Oscar laps it up.Im trying,maybe in vain,to find plants high in Iron to help his anaemia.Short of a blood transfusion I dont know what else I can do.He is also putting on weight which is one small positive.
Ive asked my vet if this could be hepatic cocci we are dealing with and she is adamant its not.I thought that I have nothing to loose starting him on Co-Trimoxazole.Im waiting for the C&S on his urine sample to come back & will ask for the Toltrazuril. His urine is showing very high protein and bilirubin.Im also going to ask if they can show me how to do sub cut fluids as these should help flush out any toxins.Im going to the chemist later on to pick up the ranitidine so will get some lactulose then.When I was clearing out one of the cupboards the other day I found an out of date bottle of lactulose and wondered what it was for.You must have suggested it once before Jane for one of my poorly buns-Thank you xx.I wont give up on Oscar as long as he is happy.
Could an obstruction be causing his tummy to blow up and feel like he has swallowed a brick,periodically through the day?He still carries on eating so im not convinced its gas.I also wonder if he lies down to eat because it helps the food bypass a tumour?
Here are a copy of Ambers pathology results.I just cant get my head around that both of them got ill at the same time and they both have cancer.
http://s276.photobucket.com/user/bugsymalone123/media/20170214_064032.jpg.html
One of my brave Oscar http://s276.photobucket.com/user/bugsymalone123/media/20170210_070557.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

Well I have no idea what happened to the long post I submitted on here last night, or at least I thought that I had submitted it.............

I do not have time to type it all out again now, but I'll just mention one of the things I included in the post that has apparently vanished into the ether. It's a long shot, but could Mycotoxins in a food source be involved ?

https://world-rabbit-science.com/WRSA-Proceedings/Congress-2008-Verona/Papers/N2-Mezes.pdf

 

[Santa]

I remember well working with someone many years ago who lost a succession of rabbits with similar symptoms. Their vet too was adamant that it wasn't hepatic cocci and every single faecal sample (of which there were many!) came back negative, every PM was inconclusive but some did show thickened bile ducts and/or irritated gut lining. It literally took months before FHB very kindly gave some advice - the advice sadly was to euthanise a very sick rabbit and to get a full post mortem done within the hour. This is what happened and guess what...enormous amounts of hepatic cocci found in the bile ducts. I'm not saying that it definitely is this, but given that both are affected and you know the bile ducts are thickened, personally I would suspect it. A couple of rabbits did seem to become chronic carriers whose symptoms flared up and down until they had toltrazuril. You're right that the drugs don't kill it off, they just reduce the load so that the rabbit's immune system can fight it; some of them I think seem to get it a bit more chronically and/or have ongoing problems because of damage left behind. I really do think it's worth a go if your vet will agree, it's a safe drug at the right dose (which needs checking carefully as somewhere still floating out about there is a 10x overdose cited). All the best x

 

[Maizey]

Thank you MightyMax,Jane & Santa for very kindly taking the time to answer and post links.I apologise for taking so long to reply.Oscar had one of his intermittent liquid diarrhoea bouts this morning,then decided he would have a run around the house!!!Ive been scrubbing & steam cleaning the carpets for most of the morning.Who would have thought that a bunny wabbit would force you into spring cleaning mode!
I forgot to mention that Oscar had a test done for EC which thankfully was clear.Ive mentioned the possibility of mycotoxins to my vet when they first got ill.I think she said the only way to find out would be to do an endoscopy.At the time both bunnies were too poorly.My GSD Tess is very allergic to Aspergillus.When she had allergy tests the specialist said it was one of the highest readings she had ever seen.This house is made of stone with no insulation so there is a constant battle with moulds.There is a freezer in the bunny shed which often gets mould growing on the lid seal.There is also all the forage that I pick which could contain mould spores even though I go through it all before feeding.I buy their hay from hay4pets & it always smells lovely.If the baycox doesnt make a difference then it will be my next port of call.
I took Oscar to see my vet yesterday so she could show me how to do sub cut fluids and to get the results for the C&S on his urine sample.The results weren't back yet.I also asked if we could try Baycox even though cocci hadnt been found in the last sample as there was nothing to lose in trying.She thankfully agreed.Im just waiting for it to come into the surgery.He has also gained weight since last week,hes gone up from 7.4 kgs to 7.6 kgs.
Ive given Baycox before which caused anorexia due to the prescribed dose being too high.Please could someone confirm if the correct dose is 2.5mg/kg and if this should be given once only?Also somewhere in the back of my mind I think Marie Kubiak said she mixed the baycox with cola.Does anyone know if this is correct and why?
Once again thank you so much for taking the time to help my beautiful bunny.I really appreciate all your kindness xx

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Thank you MightyMax,Jane & Santa for very kindly taking the time to answer and post links.I apologise for taking so long to reply.Oscar had one of his intermittent liquid diarrhoea bouts this morning,then decided he would have a run around the house!!!Ive been scrubbing & steam cleaning the carpets for most of the morning.Who would have thought that a bunny wabbit would force you into spring cleaning mode!
I forgot to mention that Oscar had a test done for EC which thankfully was clear.Ive mentioned the possibility of mycotoxins to my vet when they first got ill.I think she said the only way to find out would be to do an endoscopy.At the time both bunnies were too poorly.My GSD Tess is very allergic to Aspergillus.When she had allergy tests the specialist said it was one of the highest readings she had ever seen.This house is made of stone with no insulation so there is a constant battle with moulds.There is a freezer in the bunny shed which often gets mould growing on the lid seal.There is also all the forage that I pick which could contain mould spores even though I go through it all before feeding.I buy their hay from hay4pets & it always smells lovely.If the baycox doesnt make a difference then it will be my next port of call.
I took Oscar to see my vet yesterday so she could show me how to do sub cut fluids and to get the results for the C&S on his urine sample.The results weren't back yet.I also asked if we could try Baycox even though cocci hadnt been found in the last sample as there was nothing to lose in trying.She thankfully agreed.Im just waiting for it to come into the surgery.He has also gained weight since last week,hes gone up from 7.4 kgs to 7.6 kgs.
Ive given Baycox before which caused anorexia due to the prescribed dose being too high.Please could someone confirm if the correct dose is 2.5mg/kg and if this should be given once only?Also somewhere in the back of my mind I think Marie Kubiak said she mixed the baycox with cola.Does anyone know if this is correct and why?
Once again thank you so much for taking the time to help my beautiful bunny.I really appreciate all your kindness xx

Here's Marie's post about Baycox and Coca Cola

The downside to baycox is that it is very alkaline (it was originally designed to be in-water medication for poultry and isn't very soluble so the active drug is amalgamated with a strong alkali to allow it to dissolve). This high pH can be very irritant to the throat lining and cause a lot of discomfort if given neat. We mix it with an acidic liquid (usually coca cola!) to neutralise the pH first and haven't had any problems. However, as most bunnies are fairly unwell to start with it is very easy to assign any problems, especially non-specific ones like stasis, to the original disease rather than a drug side effect so they may not be linked at the time.
Septrin partial resistance is fairly common too which is another reason why I prefer to use baycox where possible.

Re the Toltrazuril (Baycox) dose

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Toltrazuril.htm

 

[MightyMax]

Thank you MightyMax,Jane & Santa for very kindly taking the time to answer and post links.I apologise for taking so long to reply.Oscar had one of his intermittent liquid diarrhoea bouts this morning,then decided he would have a run around the house!!!Ive been scrubbing & steam cleaning the carpets for most of the morning.Who would have thought that a bunny wabbit would force you into spring cleaning mode!
I forgot to mention that Oscar had a test done for EC which thankfully was clear.Ive mentioned the possibility of mycotoxins to my vet when they first got ill.I think she said the only way to find out would be to do an endoscopy.At the time both bunnies were too poorly.My GSD Tess is very allergic to Aspergillus.When she had allergy tests the specialist said it was one of the highest readings she had ever seen.This house is made of stone with no insulation so there is a constant battle with moulds.There is a freezer in the bunny shed which often gets mould growing on the lid seal.There is also all the forage that I pick which could contain mould spores even though I go through it all before feeding.I buy their hay from hay4pets & it always smells lovely.If the baycox doesnt make a difference then it will be my next port of call.
I took Oscar to see my vet yesterday so she could show me how to do sub cut fluids and to get the results for the C&S on his urine sample.The results weren't back yet.I also asked if we could try Baycox even though cocci hadnt been found in the last sample as there was nothing to lose in trying.She thankfully agreed.Im just waiting for it to come into the surgery.He has also gained weight since last week,hes gone up from 7.4 kgs to 7.6 kgs.
Ive given Baycox before which caused anorexia due to the prescribed dose being too high.Please could someone confirm if the correct dose is 2.5mg/kg and if this should be given once only?Also somewhere in the back of my mind I think Marie Kubiak said she mixed the baycox with cola.Does anyone know if this is correct and why?
Once again thank you so much for taking the time to help my beautiful bunny.I really appreciate all your kindness xx

You're welcome - what an awful situation to be in.

Just as a point of interest - and worth double checking - I believe the Harcourt Brown book contained the wrong dosage for toltazuril. I know this was discussed some time ago. A new edition may well have been corrected?

I know FHB thought that toltrazuril was the most effective treatment. Just a matter of making sure the dosage is correct.

Does you vet help you with this Maizey?

 

[Maizey]

Thank you very much Jane for finding Maries post and the information on dosage.There was an answer phone message from my vet when I got home,regarding the C&S on Oscars urine,The recording is a bit wonky,so I will get a copy of the report tomorrow.From what I can hear E coli was found but nothing else.When I tested the sample with a pee stick his bilirubin was off the scale.If the e coli found wasnt from contamination it may well point to intestinal coccidiosis.

 

[Maizey]

You're welcome - what an awful situation to be in.

Just as a point of interest - and worth double checking - I believe the Harcourt Brown book contained the wrong dosage for toltazuril. I know this was discussed some time ago. A new edition may well have been corrected?

I know FHB thought that toltrazuril was the most effective treatment. Just a matter of making sure the dosage is correct.

Does you vet help you with this Maizey?

Yes your correct on FHB"s book containing the wrong dosage.If memory serves me right it was ten times the recommended dose.My vet is lovely,but shes not an exotics vet,sometimes she has made a minor error on dosage such as the Baycox due to maybe getting her info from an exotics vet.In her message tonight she confirmed the correct dose.Im sorry if I gave you the wrong impression,I didnt intent to as she really tries so hard to help my bunnies and some of them have had illnesses the rabbit specialists couldnt help with or had even come across before.

 

[Santa]

I've just had a rummage and found Sharon Redrobe's original article and that says 2.5mg/kg orally, and that's the same article that highlights the potentially high dose cited previously, so she has definitely taken that into account. Sharon's research also showed that 5mg/kg didn't make any appreciable difference so recommended that the lower dose was perfectly fine. It was a few years ago now that this was done, but it seems to resonate with current practice still. Good luck x

 

[Jack's-Jane]

I've just had a rummage and found Sharon Redrobe's original article and that says 2.5mg/kg orally, and that's the same article that highlights the potentially high dose cited previously, so she has definitely taken that into account. Sharon's research also showed that 5mg/kg didn't make any appreciable difference so recommended that the lower dose was perfectly fine. It was a few years ago now that this was done, but it seems to resonate with current practice still. Good luck x

http://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/167/8/287

 

[Maizey]

Bless you Santa & Jane.I know I sound like a stuck record but I really do appreciate you both going to all this work for me,again.I sat up with Oscar last night until one.He was breathing very rapidly,as I watched him I could see little waves of what I can only describe as contractions every now and again in his stomach.When I felt his stomach it was rock hard.The odd thing is he carries on eating when he has these,gas/bloating episodes.He lets me massage him which I have to start near his sternum,He grabs my cuff and pulls my hand to this area if I start lower down.I then carefully apply pressure to his intestines then work my way down,he will then turn around which indicates he wants his sides doing.Gradually his stomach will go back to normal,he will then hop off.Oscar has never suffered from Gas until they got poorly in December.He also seems to prefer lying down to eat which makes me think there maybe theres an obstruction which somehow gets bypassed in this position.Bunnies are very puzzling!

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Bless you Santa & Jane.I know I sound like a stuck record but I really do appreciate you both going to all this work for me,again.I sat up with Oscar last night until one.He was breathing very rapidly,as I watched him I could see little waves of what I can only describe as contractions every now and again in his stomach.When I felt his stomach it was rock hard.The odd thing is he carries on eating when he has these,gas/bloating episodes.He lets me massage him which I have to start near his sternum,He grabs my cuff and pulls my hand to this area if I start lower down.I then carefully apply pressure to his intestines then work my way down,he will then turn around which indicates he wants his sides doing.Gradually his stomach will go back to normal,he will then hop off.Oscar has never suffered from Gas until they got poorly in December.He also seems to prefer lying down to eat which makes me think there maybe theres an obstruction which somehow gets bypassed in this position.Bunnies are very puzzling!

Does Oscar's abdomen look like this ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdAjaB0_xuo&feature=youtu.be