Lillabelle not eating

[twistedtiggerz69]

I hope Lillabelle is doing better this morning, I think you and your husband are doing a great job with her.

Thank you Pets mum sorry for late reply x

 

[Pets mum]

Thank you Pets mum sorry for late reply x

No need to apologise, you have your hands full, make sure you look after yourself too x

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Good to see better news. Well done to you, OH and Lillabelle. Please don’t blame yourself about misunderstanding the pineapple juice info. Google can be helpful but not always. It’s only natural that we will want to try anything to help our rabbits. Inspector Morse is correct but you have a lot to take in and cope with and it’s easy to misunderstand when we are stressed and tired.

It’s really good Lillabelle is eating herbs. In my experience (limited as I have only had two rabbits) it is not unusual for it to take longer for rabbits to go back to eating pellets after an episode of gut stasis. I find that offering maybe 4-6 pellets is both less overwhelming to a poorly rabbit and easier to tell if they have actually eaten one. Sorry if this is stating the obvious!

Thank you for your kind words. Yes it is hard to get the right info sometimes on Google. The more time I spend on RU the more I am learning as there are so many rabbit owners with experience on here and it is all for the benefit of our buns. We have been taking turns to sleep a couple of hours in between Lillabelle's feeds and that is really helping. This week reminds me of when my twins were newborn and I was breastfeeding them every 3 hours as I am walking around like a zombie on autopilot

Mischief and Lillabelle are not on pellets anymore as they are on a strict diet. It has lapsed this week though as we leave food for Lillabelle and she doesn't eat it and then Mischief goes to hoover it up before stop him. His sense of smell has to be seen to be believed. Any food gets picked up on his radar from across the room and his nose follows

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Thanks to Inspector Morse's kindness we were able to see a rabbit savvy vet today for Lillabelle

The vet did a thorough check in her and her lungs and heart are good. Her poor little tummy has slowed down but the vet said the syringe feeding has helped keep her gut moving. She gave Lillabelle an injection of metoclopramide and also gave us some to give her at home. Her dosage is 2.5ml every 8 hours for 3 days then to reduce to every 12 hours for another 3 days and then to re- check with the vet. She said it is quite a high dose. Idk what dose is usual as I have not given this to our buns before...

Lillabelle's teeth are long and she had an ulcer in her mouth that the vet said was probably caused from the long teeth however the vet says they are ok for the moment and eating hay will help with her teeth. Her weight is 4.9 kg (so she has lost 200g this week) and she said Lillabelle's ideal weight is 4.7 kg. So nearly there. The vet asked us about their diet and when I told her she was really impressed

The vet asked us to ring her on Monday with an update. I asked vet if we should give Lillabelle antibiotics and she said 'Good heavens No!' however we had already stopped it anyway as I agreed with Inspector Morse in that no infection was proved to be present. I also asked about pain meds and the vet said something like there is no reason to think that rabbits in GI stasis are in pain so no need to give you pain medication. I found that strange as Lillabelle has obviously been in pain this week. She has just stayed in a sitting position not hardly moving, eyes open and Lillabelle not really sleeping, fast breathing and grinding her teeth. We are keeping up the pain meds for another 2 days at 1 ml every 12 hours and then we will see how it goes from there.

Some great news...Lillabelle has been eating parsley, dill, sweetheart cabbage, cauliflower leaves and a little hay. She now sits and looks out at us saying that she wants feeding basically. Then we sit there feeding veggies and herbs to her. I have fed her loads but Lillabelle absolutely loves my OH and actually looks at him to feed her. It is so sweet

Syringe feeds have got easier. We have worked out how to stop her from launching herself over my OH's shoulder on to the bed, we slowed things right down as Lil's was getting quite stressed out and we just give her loads of time between each mouthful. She still spits some out but after a couple of mouthfuls she starts to eat it. So it is no longer such a battle. This week has really made us feel closer to her. The way she can tell us what she wants is amazing really. We felt the same closeness when we had to syringe feed Mischief a few years ago

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Continuing to send my support. I really don’t understand why a vet would not examine your rabbit. Even if not expert in rabbits surely any vet should know the basics. Poor Lilabelle, but she has a caring owner doing the best you can for her.

Sorry not replied before. I actually feel quite cross now that he didn't check her over and did not explain that he was not experienced with rabbits or something! Anyone who knows bunnies would know that they can go downhill very quickly with gut stasis. It could have gone very wrong because of his negligence. I have been fuming and ranting to my poor OH about his treatment (or rather lack of treatment) to Lillabelle. Poor Lillabelle could have been feeling better much sooner if he was honest at the start.

Sorry I lost it for a minute there Thank you for your kind words

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

If I have missed replying to someone's post it is not personal. Thank you to everybun who has supported Lillabelle and us through this week. It has really helped to know there are other bunny people who care

 

[InspectorMorse]

Hopefully she will now continue to recover and be back to normal in a few more days x

 

[bunny momma]

I am glad she is improving with all the effort from you and your spouse. Good job figuring out how to syringe feed with less spit out.
It is wonderful IM was able to help you see a different vet. While I understand not continuing antibiotics, I am a little confused about the remark about pain meds and stasis. It may not be true in every case, yet ime a bunny rarely has stasis without primary or secondary pain.

 

[InspectorMorse]

I am glad she is improving with all the effort from you and your spouse. Good job figuring out how to syringe feed with less spit out.
It is wonderful IM was able to help you see a different vet. While I understand not continuing antibiotics, I am a little confused about the remark about pain meds and stasis. It may not be true in every case, yet ime a bunny rarely has stasis without primary or secondary pain.

L is still on analgesia and at the correct dose now

 

[susie bun]

So pleased to read more positive updates. Do hope Lillabelle continues her recovery. My Bertie also likes to be handfed, especially if he has been poorly or in the huff about something!

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Hopefully she will now continue to recover and be back to normal in a few more days x

Thank you for today

Lil's last syringe feed was at 6pm and she had about 60 ml feed plus she was also given metoclopramide and loxicom. Then I gave her sweetheart cabbage straight after and then she had 2 cauliflower leaves
She had done so well we let her out the pen and left it open for them to go back for litter trays, hay etc. They lay down under the bed together

Less than an hour later Lillabelle came up to me and sat down in front of me looking out the crate. I just knew she wanted more food. So I got more food but she ignored me and still looked out the crate. I called my OH over and told him your bunny wants feeding. And she ate loads of veggies from my OH. He had to sit awkwardly with his new hip but he wouldn't move in case she stopped eating. Such a lovely moment
A bit later we were set to feed her at 11 and I thought "it's their herb time now so Chief needs his supper. Maybe we could leave her feed at 11pm and see if she ate dry forage off the hay? And she did. She ate dried plantain and dandelion leaves straight off the hay without us having to waggle it in front of her face. Then she ate timothy hay off the floor for the first time since Sunday. And then she jumped in the litter tray for a poo and ate hay from the end of the litter tray too.

We were sitting together watching this happen and we actually high fived it

Thank you we are so grateful

Just one question...as L is going in to the pen to eat hay and then going to her usual spot then to the hay etc....do we syringe feed one more tonight before bed or just leave her to it?
We just want to keep the gut working but we don't want to interfere if she is doing fine now?

Fantastic result

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I am glad she is improving with all the effort from you and your spouse. Good job figuring out how to syringe feed with less spit out.
It is wonderful IM was able to help you see a different vet. While I understand not continuing antibiotics, I am a little confused about the remark about pain meds and stasis. It may not be true in every case, yet ime a bunny rarely has stasis without primary or secondary pain.

Yes she is doing really well now but we will keep a close eye on her and also they are having long grooming sessions with us as a matter of urgency until their coats are good. She hasn't seen Lillabelle as I saw her this week. She shrunk to this teeny baby bunny she was so weak. Her big eyes looking at me and her ears back with no energy. It was awful to see

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

So pleased to read more positive updates. Do hope Lillabelle continues her recovery. My Bertie also likes to be handfed, especially if he has been poorly or in the huff about something!

Thank you. She is doing well but she scared us to death. Stasis really creeps up on you doesn't it. Thank god we both noticed her not eating and my OH told me or we may have missed it. Oh and she had cold ears

I don't know if Lillabelle would let us feed her when she is 100% healthy. She can be very feisty
But you never know. She may love it

 

[Barn Yard Bunnies]

Hope your Lillabelle is back to normal very soon. X

 

[InspectorMorse]

Lillabelle's teeth are long and she had an ulcer in her mouth that the vet said was probably caused from the long teeth however the vet says they are ok for the moment and eating hay will help with her teeth. Her weight is 4.9 kg (so she has lost 200g this week) and she said Lillabelle's ideal weight is 4.7 kg. So nearly there. The vet asked us about their diet and when I told her she was really impressed

Going forward, once she is fully recovered from this episode she needs that mouth ulcer looked at.In our other messages you didn’t mention the ulcer. Dental problems causing soft tissue damage seldom resolve without treatment (a dental).

We can discuss things further privately

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Going forward, once she is fully recovered from this episode she needs that mouth ulcer looked at.In our other messages you didn’t mention the ulcer. Dental problems causing soft tissue damage seldom resolve without treatment (a dental).

We can discuss things further privately

Yes I realise I hadn't told you in messages due to tiredness sorry. After the vets Phil and I discussed the fact that her teeth probably need doing soon due to this ulcer. Also that the GI stasis may have been a secondary problem due to her teeth. The vet made a point of saying we must phone her Monday morning to let her know what her situation is moving forwards. So I imagine the vet will want to check her teeth again soon. I did feel that she had good knowledge of rabbits until she said Lil's won't need pain meds for GI stasis. That threw me a bit tbh ☹

There is also the worry that she may go in to GI stasis due to this ulcer hurting her and stopping her eating again so we need to be vigilant. The pain meds may also be helping her to eat and as soon as we stop the meds she may struggle to eat again.

We didn't end up feeding her again. I got the feed ready and we were going to offer some to her again but she totally freaked out and tried to make a run for it. I do gently put a hand on the top of her head now as otherwise she tries to launch herself up really quickly to escape over Phil's shoulder but I just gently hold her there so my OH can get hold of her again. She was stronger than ever after eating . It is such an ordeal for her as she hates being picked up and she looked really scared

So we gave her the metaclopramide and then let her go into the pen with Chief. We felt she had had enough today. I really hope she eats tonight when we go to bed

We are leaving them in the pen with their sheets over it so they feel safe and are keeping quiet so she can rest. It also means she has hay, forage and water right next to her tonight to encourage her to eat.

I am off to bed now. Our babies are snuggled up together and they look so cute together. Makes it all worth it for moments like these. Thank you once again Inspector Morse ❤

 

[InspectorMorse]

Yes I realise I hadn't told you in messages due to tiredness sorry. After the vets Phil and I discussed the fact that her teeth probably need doing soon due to this ulcer. Also that the GI stasis may have been a secondary problem due to her teeth. The vet made a point of saying we must phone her Monday morning to let her know what her situation is moving forwards. So I imagine the vet will want to check her teeth again soon. I did feel that she had good knowledge of rabbits until she said Lil's won't need pain meds for GI stasis. That threw me a bit tbh ☹

There is also the worry that she may go in to GI stasis due to this ulcer hurting her and stopping her eating again so we need to be vigilant. The pain meds may also be helping her to eat and as soon as we stop the meds she may struggle to eat again.

We didn't end up feeding her again. I got the feed ready and we were going to offer some to her again but she totally freaked out and tried to make a run for it. I do gently put a hand on the top of her head now as otherwise she tries to launch herself up really quickly to escape over Phil's shoulder but I just gently hold her there so my OH can get hold of her again. She was stronger than ever after eating . It is such an ordeal for her as she hates being picked up and she looked really scared

So we gave her the metaclopramide and then let her go into the pen with Chief. We felt she had had enough today. I really hope she eats tonight when we go to bed

We are leaving them in the pen with their sheets over it so they feel safe and are keeping quiet so she can rest. It also means she has hay, forage and water right next to her tonight to encourage her to eat.

I am off to bed now. Our babies are snuggled up together and they look so cute together. Makes it all worth it for moments like these. Thank you once again Inspector Morse ❤

Gut stasis is not a stand alone illness, but a symptom of another primary problem. As is stated here in this article written by an Exotics Qualified Vet and a Rabbit Savvy well known Vet Nurse

‘’Gut stasis is one of the most serious conditions a rabbit could have, and it deserves to be taken seriously by both the owner and veterinary staff. Because there are many possible causes (many of them external to the gut itself), it must be highlighted that it is a symptom and not a final diagnosis. A rabbit that presents in gut stasis requires a full clinical examination and husbandry review. At this stage, the cause of the gut stasis may become obvious.’’

Full article:

https://www.veterinary-practice.com/article/working-together-on-gut-stasis

Which is why it was so appalling that the initial Vet didn’t examine L before giving her prokinetics, which putting it bluntly could have killed her.

There are a multitude of possible primary causes that lead to gut stasis. Sometimes identifying the cause can be a challenge, sometimes it’s obvious eg a Dental
problem. So unless the cause of the gut stasis is identified and treated gut stasis will keep recurring.

I will text you later re the Vet Hospital, I too have concerns about the comment about a Rabbit in gut stasis not needing pain relief. Given the rest of the account you gave me of the consultation that remark is especially surprising.

L has been far too unwell to have a GA/Dental over the last few days, so if the treatment she is now on gets her eating and pooping normally again getting her teeth sorted out will be a priority.

Later this morning I will call the Veterinary Hospital we discussed yesterday and then text you

 

[bunny momma]

L is still on analgesia and at the correct dose now

I am glad you were able to intervene and help the family get Lillabelle proper care.
Well done.

 

[bunny momma]

L is still on analgesia and at the correct dose now

I am glad you were able to intervene and help the family get Lillabelle the proper care.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

Gut stasis is not a stand alone illness, but a symptom of another primary problem. As is stated here in this article written by an Exotics Qualified Vet and a Rabbit Savvy well known Vet Nurse

‘’Gut stasis is one of the most serious conditions a rabbit could have, and it deserves to be taken seriously by both the owner and veterinary staff. Because there are many possible causes (many of them external to the gut itself), it must be highlighted that it is a symptom and not a final diagnosis. A rabbit that presents in gut stasis requires a full clinical examination and husbandry review. At this stage, the cause of the gut stasis may become obvious.’’

Full article:

https://www.veterinary-practice.com/article/working-together-on-gut-stasis

Which is why it was so appalling that the initial Vet didn’t examine L before giving her prokinetics, which putting it bluntly could have killed her.

There are a multitude of possible primary causes that lead to gut stasis. Sometimes identifying the cause can be a challenge, sometimes it’s obvious eg a Dental
problem. So unless the cause of the gut stasis is identified and treated gut stasis will keep recurring.

I will text you later re the Vet Hospital, I too have concerns about the comment about a Rabbit in gut stasis not needing pain relief. Given the rest of the account you gave me of the consultation that remark is especially surprising.

L has been far too unwell to have a GA/Dental over the last few days, so if the treatment she is now on gets her eating and pooping normally again getting her teeth sorted out will be a priority.

Later this morning I will call the Veterinary Hospital we discussed yesterday and then text you

Yes I agree she is not eating without pain meds and so there is probably a reason for her gut stasis. She was not eating much again this morning so we are syringe feeding her again.

She is now managing to eat some herbs but a lot of the food she takes and bites it and then drops it. I wonder if this is from her originating from wild bunnies and they pretend to eat so other buns don't realise they are sick?

She tries to take the food but then moves her mouth different ways trying to find a way to eat which makes me think dental but I may be wrong.

My OH has been letting me sleep between feeds as my meds are making things unsafe for me as I am falling asleep standing up and falling about when walking around the flat. I feel a bit better now but I can't do these early hours going to bed and getting up so early. So don't worry if you don't hear from me sometimes

Lil's has been eating herbs just now after a syringe feed that she mostly spat out again at first and then she settled and ate 50-60 mls at a guess. Do the syringe feeds still help stimulate the gut if she spits it out? Sorry if that is a silly question. I will try and Google about it.

Yes will chat with you later