Bunnyaddict
Wise Old Thumper
Oh no poor Artie 
Sending him lots & lots of vibes xxx
Sending him lots & lots of vibes xxx
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Has anybody any spare vibes for Artie (now eating again) More poops :)
- Thread starter Bunny Buddy
- Start date
Bunny Buddy
Wise Old Thumper
My instinct said to do it, but the vet specifically said not to. I'm not going to go against her advice. He will be getting injectable metacam at 2pm so this might be quicker than oral metacam (not 100% sure on that one)
Frances has said that chasing them around has no benefit, and neither does tummy rubs, it gives the owner something to do but isn't helpful to the bunny, so I no longer put them through the stress of it.
He really doesn't want me syringing water into him though, I've got a little bit in but I'm scared of injuring him, he struggles so much. Think Carla might have to advise on that one :?
Poor little man. I think it's wise to stick with the vet's advice and I'm sure you will be straight on the phone to them if he deteriorates between now and your appt.
Are you on your own Alison? I know how difficult it was trying to syringe feed Bubbles and that was with somebody else holding her for me; I always wonder how people manage to do it single-handedly. Have you tried wrapping him securely in a towel so he can't struggle? (Not that I had any success with that method myself but it works for some). It's hard I know because you have to balance out the amount of stress you're putting him through with how much you're helping him.
I think it's wise to stick with the vet's advice and I'm sure you will be straight on the phone to them if he deteriorates between now and your appt.Are you on your own Alison? I know how difficult it was trying to syringe feed Bubbles and that was with somebody else holding her for me; I always wonder how people manage to do it single-handedly. Have you tried wrapping him securely in a towel so he can't struggle? (Not that I had any success with that method myself
but it works for some). It's hard I know because you have to balance out the amount of stress you're putting him through with how much you're helping him.
Bunny Buddy
Wise Old Thumper
Poor little man.
Are you on your own Alison? I know how difficult it was trying to syringe feed Bubbles and that was with somebody else holding her for me; I always wonder how people manage to do it single-handedly. Have you tried wrapping him securely in a towel so he can't struggle? (Not that I had any success with that method myself
On my own. I do all my interactions with bunnies on floor/low shelf levels as my left arm is weak and I can't lift them at normal table height (as well as being scared of them taking a leap - Artie did this at the vets at 6mths old and it was terrifying). I haven't tried the towel yet as I'm considering it's quite early still. I think I need to try and hold him with my knees, face out and then he can't get away, wrapped up as well possibly. I'm such a wimp - I hate making them do things against their will but I understand how important hydration is. I'll try again soon.
the only way ive found i can hold Alvin (totally different than how i was told by the vet nurse yesterday that rabbit cannot be clamped between my legs lol) i put him in the carrier so i can get a good grip on him, i lift him out and sit on the floor with my knees up and i sort of sit him down my knees with him facing me, one ready filled syringe, hand holding him under his front legs back legs sort of resting on my big old belly.. if he struggles i lower my legs so hes at trance position and then lift him back up and try to syringe then... he fights terrible and a lot of the water goes onto my legs.. but i know im getting some in... desperation does help you to become firmer.. after 3 days of not eating it was learn to get fluids in or fail him... i have no idea if how im holding him is wrong or not but i havent choked him and hes not broken
the vet was well shocked when i said i was dealing with him alone, not like i had a choice...
dont panic yet hun, the vets can put the fluids into his skin for you at 2pm
giantbunnymummy
Warren Veteran
Poor Artie
Loads and loads of vibes.
Loads and loads of vibes.
It's not easy, I know and I'm always scared of holding them too firmly, especially because mine are so tiny. It's easier said than done, but try to be quite confident & determined when you pick him up too - they can tell when you're hesitant and stressed.
Biscuit Bunny
Alpha Buck
Sorry have to disagree, metacam works within the hour. They inject a different pain relief at the vets which works alongside metacam.
My rabbit savvy vet said tummy rubs help alot and even gave us a demo and keeping them moving also helps greatly. Don't know why noone ever wants my advise??
Aaawwww, I don't think that's true.
We all ask for (and give) advice and it's up to the reader to decide what to take on board and, as long as you trust your vet, then your vet's advice should be what you follow. Vet's will have differing opinions - not right or wrong, just different views. Bubbles has only ever had injectable pain relief once but that was metacam.
Biscuit Bunny
Alpha Buck
Aaawwww, I don't think that's true.
Bubbles has only ever had injectable pain relief once but that was metacam.
Sorry having a rubbish morning ignore me
Bunny Buddy
Wise Old Thumper
I am grateful for your advice and everyone else's. (Sorry if I offended you by not taking it). The vets I'm taking him to today aren't particularly bunny savvy but the best I can see at the moment. I didn't know the score for definite with the metacam, but I'll even have to ask for a painkiller at local vets as they don't routinely give it for stasis/bloat episodes :?
I've no idea whether tummy rubs/chasing bunnies round works or not, I know a lot of people whose advice I trust on here recommend it but Frances Harcourt Brown doesn't, I choose to go with her advice but that doesn't mean I don't want anyone else's advice. I am grateful for your advice as I'm sure others are.
Anyway, he's just had a good chase round whilst I've been attempting to syringe water into him so he got that whether he appreciated it or not.
I've got 6ml of water into him. He struggled for ages refusing to be cornered and eventually I just got him between my legs whilst kneeling on the floor (feet blocking his escape) and he took the water brilliantly when we got to that stage
I had one hand under his chin which didn't get a bit wet and he was lapping at the water as it slowly went in. At 6ml he told me he'd had enough so I let him off. Managed to get his botty really clean too.
Bunny Buddy
Wise Old Thumper
Sorry having a rubbish morning ignore me
You gave some brilliant advice, don't under-estimate how much it was appreciated
Edit to add: I do actually agree with you about the metacam but unfortuantely i asked the vet and she said not to. I think next time in this situation I would do metacam first and then tell them (I know he's eaten over night otherwise I'd be more cautious)
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I've got 6ml of water into him. He struggled for ages refusing to be cornered and eventually I just got him between my legs whilst kneeling on the floor (feet blocking his escape) and he took the water brilliantly when we got to that stage
Yay, you did it!
Biscuit Bunny
Alpha Buck
You gave some brilliant advice, don't under-estimate how much it was appreciated
Edit to add: I do actually agree with you about the metacam but unfortuantely i asked the vet and she said not to. I think next time in this situation I would do metacam first and then tell them (I know he's eaten over night otherwise I'd be more cautious)
Really sorry Bunny Buddy sounds like you are doing a wonderful job getting some fluids into him.
Hope it all goes well at 2 xx
Bunny Buddy
Wise Old Thumper
Thanks. Now I know oral metacam works that quickly I will definitely be going down that route next time.
He picks his times - when he needed his op and was really poorly it was Easter, now when the flippin' Great Yorkshire Show is on and it's really difficult to get to his vets.
Biscuit Bunny
Alpha Buck
Same here last time Biscuit was ill was on a Sunday before that was on a bank hol weekend and before that was at midnight :?
prettylupin
Wise Old Thumper
Metacam oral can work very quickly if you catch the symptoms early enough, but in order to do so you need to give the correct dose, undermedicating often doesn't help much. The reason I expect that vets prefer us not to administer at home is that on an empty stomach it can cause gastric ulceration as a NSAID and they will assume that most run of the mill rabbit owners don't pick up the signs quickly enough.
However, if symptoms come on quickly and your bun has been eating normally to this point I would give it but I would also take bunny down for an exam if they don't respond within the hour. It's not a good idea for a bun who has been anorexic for several hours, in these cases an injectable NSAID or an injectable opiate - vetergesic, or both, is better. If you have given metacam oral and bunny isn't responding then vetergesic can be given as well, as the NSAID and the opiate are different class drugs. The problem with the vetergesic is that it makes bunny rather drowsy and then more difficult to encourage to 'wake up' and eat and hop around or even syringe feed. If you haven't given enough oral metacam then the vet can top this up by injection too - which by-passes the stomach and therefore is less risky in terms of gastric interference.
My vet gives a big dose at the outset and then tailors it off as bunny improves, I think the opiate also has a tendency to cause ileus in itself which is why on balance at the outset managing pain is the priority, but as pain gets controlled, managing gut motility becomes priority and tailoring off the dose is needed? I'm guessing here
I personally would agree with Clare (Biscuit Bunny) in that i have found tummy rubs and encouraging bunny to hop around extremely effective and it was also advised by our rabbit savy vet. I guess different vets have different opinions on this. All I can say is that it has helped my buns enormously whilst in this condition. From what little I know of medicine, smooth muscle (which lines the guts) is responsive to exercise, and rabbits are designed to revolve around exercise and eating - rather like when a horse has colic - you need to walk it around.
I have also found administering fluids and keeping bunny warm essential parts of the stasis/bloat care regime.
However, if symptoms come on quickly and your bun has been eating normally to this point I would give it but I would also take bunny down for an exam if they don't respond within the hour. It's not a good idea for a bun who has been anorexic for several hours, in these cases an injectable NSAID or an injectable opiate - vetergesic, or both, is better. If you have given metacam oral and bunny isn't responding then vetergesic can be given as well, as the NSAID and the opiate are different class drugs. The problem with the vetergesic is that it makes bunny rather drowsy and then more difficult to encourage to 'wake up' and eat and hop around or even syringe feed. If you haven't given enough oral metacam then the vet can top this up by injection too - which by-passes the stomach and therefore is less risky in terms of gastric interference.
My vet gives a big dose at the outset and then tailors it off as bunny improves, I think the opiate also has a tendency to cause ileus in itself which is why on balance at the outset managing pain is the priority, but as pain gets controlled, managing gut motility becomes priority and tailoring off the dose is needed? I'm guessing here
I personally would agree with Clare (Biscuit Bunny) in that i have found tummy rubs and encouraging bunny to hop around extremely effective and it was also advised by our rabbit savy vet. I guess different vets have different opinions on this. All I can say is that it has helped my buns enormously whilst in this condition. From what little I know of medicine, smooth muscle (which lines the guts) is responsive to exercise, and rabbits are designed to revolve around exercise and eating - rather like when a horse has colic - you need to walk it around.
I have also found administering fluids and keeping bunny warm essential parts of the stasis/bloat care regime.
Bunny Buddy
Wise Old Thumper
Thanks PrettyLupin, that's all really helpful.
I'm really worried about dehydration now. He hasn't had loads of diarrhoea as such just had wet stuff on his back end but I haven't seen him drinking, which he normally does a lot.
I've done the loose skin test on his neck and it bounces back quickly, but as I feel his spine, just above his hips he feels thin - could this be a sign that he's dehydrated?
I'm worrying myself silly that he will get admitted at local vets and they will treat the symptoms and not look for a cause, I don't know whether to risk he traffic to take him to Harrogate, though I guess I'd better just sit that out til 2pm and see what the local vet's verdict is.
I just wish he'd buck up, I can't bear to see him like this. I suppose I'd better disturb him to give him some more water.
I'm really worried about dehydration now. He hasn't had loads of diarrhoea as such just had wet stuff on his back end but I haven't seen him drinking, which he normally does a lot.
I've done the loose skin test on his neck and it bounces back quickly, but as I feel his spine, just above his hips he feels thin - could this be a sign that he's dehydrated?
I'm worrying myself silly that he will get admitted at local vets and they will treat the symptoms and not look for a cause, I don't know whether to risk he traffic to take him to Harrogate, though I guess I'd better just sit that out til 2pm and see what the local vet's verdict is.
I just wish he'd buck up, I can't bear to see him like this. I suppose I'd better disturb him to give him some more water.
prettylupin
Wise Old Thumper
Try syringing some cooled herbal tea - peppermint/fennel/nettle/camomile are all very helpful and bunnies seem to prefer these to plain water.
Good luck - i'd risk the vet if things don't improve as bunny made need sub-cut fluids too and more pain relief.
