Runny poo and not eating/drinking

[bunkin]

As some of you will know my housebun who is nearly 9 has a long history of sudden tummy trouble. Won't eat or drink for 24 hrs and in obvious pain with hunching/stretching.

Numerous vets have tried all sorts. Pain relief, stomach meds etc etc and about 2 years ago I found what seemed to be miracle cure in infacol. As soon as he started I would give him one dose and in an hour he was his old self and eating/drinking again.

He gets these attacks about every 3 months but if he has any fresh greens he gets them every 3 weeks. So he has a very strict diet that is weighed out every day and no fresh greens at all.

His last attack was beg of feb and the infacol worked in half an hour. This morning he started again and passed pure runny poo that he has never ever done before. the infacol helped a little bit after about an hour, he washed himself and seemed brighter but went downhill again which he has never done before. He has now had three doses of infacol and pain med and he is stretching and hunching all the time. He has passed another two lots of runny poo.

I have appt with vet first thing tomorrow because if he is not totally back to his normal self by first thing tomorrow then he will have reached the 24 hrs without food or water other than the meds. In the past he has always been okay within 24 hrs.

I just don't have a good feel about this. we have never found out what is causing his attacks. There are no specialist rabbit vets in cumbria or north lancashire, there is one vet at my local practise who seems to be the most knowledgable and I am booked in with her. The lady at edinburgh vet school said that without intensive tests done up there it was impossible to know what is causing the attacks but he is too old to travel far as he gets horrendously stressed going in his carrier even for short journey.

AFter all this rambling what I am wanting to ask is what should the vet be doing if he is still very ill tomorrow??

 

[nessar]

I don't have much experience of runny poo, but I do have some with other gut problems. Make sure you take some poo examples with you.

If the infacol is working, that points to the issue being gas - I'd mention that to your vet. I would expect them to palpate the gut to check for a blockage/any impaction and to determine the amount of food and poo in various parts, listen to the gut with a stethoscope, look at the teeth with an otoscope and do the normal weighing. Maybe listen to the lungs and heart as a general health check (mine always does).

I'd then expect at the very least sub cut fluids and more pain relief - probably injected. My vet usually gives vetergesic, which does have the side effect of making them drowsey. I'd expect more metacam to be advised as well, whether by injection or given orally at home. They may want to keep him in for syringe feeding and put him on a drip to rehydrate him. If not, I'd expect to be set home with liquid food for syringe feeding.

I'm not sure what meds they could give for the gut, though, as my Barney has gut stimulants to help move the gas out of his system and get him eating again, but if your bun has runny poo I'm not sure whether they would prescribe that, although different ones work in different areas of the gut so maybe.

This is a bit further in the future of course, but about diagnosing...Barney's problems were diagnosed with blood tests, an xray and an ultrasound. He was concious for all three, but was sedated and for the xray he was also tranced, which meant they could do the tests without anesthetic. Just thought I'd mention it in case the anesthetic was putting you off because of his age.

Also, a quick google brought up exotic vets in Cumbria: http://www.millcroftvets.co.uk/?Exotic
http://www.falconvet.co.uk/companion_animals.htm
And in North Yorkshire I found one: http://www.battleflatts.co.uk/vets.htm

Qualified exotic vets will be trained in rabbit medicine, so it would be worth contacting them if they are near enough to you for him to travel to (not sure where you are exactly and my geography sucks). I really hope he improves tonight, I know what a worry it can be.

 

[bunkin]

Thanks Nessar. We had assumed the problem was gas as in the past the infacol has worked but today it has not worked in fact since his last dose at 8.30pm he has got alot worse He is stretching and hunching not knowing what to do with himself and shaking, breaks my heart that nothing helps him when he is like this.
Thanks for the vet info but the nearest one to me (Keswick) would be hour and half drive away from me which is too far.
I will bear in mind what you have said about pain relief, fluids and possible x ray tests etc so at least I know what to push for!

 

[bunny babe]

Pure runny poo in a bunny is serious and should be seen by a vet asap.

Fluids are a must as bunnies can dehydrate very quickly. Nessar has given some very good advice.

I hope he feels better soon.

 

[nessar]

Thanks Nessar. We had assumed the problem was gas as in the past the infacol has worked but today it has not worked in fact since his last dose at 8.30pm he has got alot worse He is stretching and hunching not knowing what to do with himself and shaking, breaks my heart that nothing helps him when he is like this.
Thanks for the vet info but the nearest one to me (Keswick) would be hour and half drive away from me which is too far.
I will bear in mind what you have said about pain relief, fluids and possible x ray tests etc so at least I know what to push for!

If he is getting worse I would think about getting him to the emergency vet, that's a judgement call on your part as you know him best, but the shaking sounds worrying. If you don't take him, I think you should try to syringe him some fluids, as if he hasn't drank much since this morning he is likely dehydrated. If you do take him to the vet it may be worth asking about hospitalising him and putting him on a drip, as fluids are so important for their recovery.

I take it he's had the max dose of metacam you've been prescribed to give him, but of not it would be worth topping up the dose to this, as he sounds like he is in severe pain. Remember to make a mental note of any meds you do give and times so that the vet knows in case of reactions/over dosing when they prescribe some. I'd also offer some recovery food (he may feel more inclined to eat liquid foods) and all of his other favourite foods, just in case he feels like picking at some.

Best of luck for the night and tomorrow morning . I hope he picks up.

 

[bunkin]

As in the past he was eating and drinking this morning although not much eating wise but we decided to take him to vets anyway and since then he is seriously miffed. Still drinking and eating a little hay but think it could go one way or other today.

Impressed with vet knowledge but found out she used to work for a vet that was rabbit savvy. She has sent off a poo sample because in between the hard poos there is still soft slightly runny poo. She can feel something in his abdomen that she suspects could be a benign mass ( he has had these attacks for at least 6 years) and wants to reassess in 10 days or sooner if he is ill again or still ill.

She advised doubling his metacam dose if he is in obvious pain and to still give him the infacol and if this does not help to take him to surgery for injection of vetagesic. If he does not get better in his usual time scale then again emergency treatment.

Had long discussion on this mass she can feel and decided not to subject him to an exploratory op if its still there in 10 days as given his age he would struggle to recover.

Decided that if he only has attacks once every 3 months and recovers in 24 hrs then his quality of life is okay but if he gets very frequent attacks or he does not recover fully then we would consider pts.

Up to now he has recovered every time from these attacks so fingers crossed this happens again.

 

[bunkin]

Hes not eating again and although not stretched out and in obvious pain like he does I think he is heading there again. Waiting for my husband to get home so we can give hm his meds ( I can't see well enough to do it on my own).

I'm just hoping so much that the meds work this tme and he gets back to normal.

 

[Zoobec]

Oh no sending lots of vibes for him. Do you know if anyone on RU lives near you who might be able to help?

 

[bunkin]

I think there are only a few of us on here from cumbria and no one in the far south of the county. He should be home by 1.30pm. Bun is just sitting totally ignoring me or anything and has been for past 2 hrs and refusing even a tiny bit of toast so that says it all.

 

[Captain Helen]

Hope the drugs help and he feels better soon. Sending lots of vibes xx

 

[cpayne]

Doughnut has runny poo when she's having an episode of being unwell then when it turns to harder poop I know she is coming out of it.

She is metacop every day which should help her with her gas but she's also been on infracol every day for 2 months now. I've reduced it down but any lower than 0.4ml twice a day and the gas comes back so she will be on both meds indefinitely.

He digestion just seems to stop and she gets terrible gas, but she does gobble her food down quickly and also gulps down her water. We are unsure why it happens. She is under a specialist and he could do something like a barium meal if it continues but he said it's difficult with rabbits as the food goes down then sort of comes back so it's difficult to tell what's happening. She's had a camera down her throat and has scar tissue so that may be stopping the food being pushed along properly.

 

[bunkin]

I didn't realise infacol could be used constantly so thats interesting. We are dithering at the moment as he has started to eat a bit of hay and isn't at his worst. It stresses him hugely to give him the infacol as it has to be syringed into him and not sure if the stress of the vets his morning set him back as he was eating before he went but was so stressed at vets with awful shaking. This is one of the reasons the vet thinks he would possibly not survive intrusive tests or an op.
Ill bunny makes for one very very stressed and tearful mummy:roll:

 

[bunkin]

He is eating hay and just did a happy bunny flop almost on his back so I am hoping and hoping he is on the way up - time wil tell.

Come on bunny.

 

[nessar]

Will he eat something like recovery food? You could mix the meds into it. I put all meds that my rabbit won't take willingly on food. Even just a couple of teaspoons would disguise the taste.

Could the lump be a build up, or an impaction of food/poo caused by the gut ileus?

Glad he is feeling a bit better. Did he get fluids under the skin?

 

[cpayne]

She was on 1ml 3 times a day so have reduced it quite a bit.

Are you sure he doesn't like the taste. Its sweet so doughnut loves it. Instead of picking her up i offer her the syringe and she puts her mouth over it. She begs for her medicine. Maybe its the stress of being picked up as doughnut hates that. I started off sitting it on a tiny bit of weetabix. She liked that so realised it wasn't the taste just the stress of syringe feeding. Now she's happy with just the syringe.

 

[bunkin]

He was drinking overnight so wasn't dehydrated when we got to vets. He is drinking and eating a bit today but still long way from right and output is much reduced but not stopped. The vets spent ages feeling his abdomen and she said it didn't feel like impaction which is what was making her suspicious. Overnight will say whether he is going to make recovery or not, I am sure that taking him to vets this morning put back his recovery as he was much much better before he went and was unbelievably stressed during and after his vet visit.
Everything hinges on how he is tomorrow morning

 

[Fee]

... I hope with all my heart that things pick up. Sending you and him all the luck in the world that this gets better.

Fee x

 

[bunkin]

... I hope with all my heart that things pick up. Sending you and him all the luck in the world that this gets better.

Fee x

Thank you, he is def eating a bit more - just need the output to improve overnight!

 

[ripminnie]

Only just seen this, i always read your threads as your bun is so similar to my Daisy what is your bun called??
I'm so sorry he's not doing so well and i totally understand about vet visits making them worse, i had the exact same problem the other week with Molly. The advice i was given was that if there is something (ie. Some food and water) going in, and something coming out, and if you have meds that they might need, to hold off on another vet trip and see if they improve over the course of the day. I was really glad i did, as Molly relaxed and started eating more.
Sending mega vibes for your bun, i hope he feels better tomorrow. Xxx

 

[tulsi]

How is he doing today? I know exactly what you mean about an ill rabbit making one tearful and anxious. I do so hope that he is eating, drinking and pooing.