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Bunny still off food and hay, drooling and teeth chattering

We have a very confusing case for one of our bun buns, and have been back and forth to the vets over the last 3 weeks.

Earl had his molar spurs done 3 weeks ago (apparently only very small), but enough to cause him to go off his hay. He has this done at the vets we usually go to, who are not rabbit specialists, but have looked after our bunnies and previously done a kidney removal for our other bunny. However, after Earl's molar spurs surgery, they told us they had to wrap it up very quickly as they got a bit carried away with his anaesthetic and he took a while to come out of it afterwards. We were not too happy, but he was back with us and he was eating bits quite quickly after the procedure. The next day however, he was not touching food, and was chattering his teeth, as well as drooling. That lasted a week, and we took him to a rabbit specialist (we will now only go to them), and they said his teeth looked good on scope, gut sounded good, he was lively etc., but the not eating was a concern, so we went for extensive bloods and an ultrasound. Bloods came back mostly unremarkable, aside from alterated white blood cell count, which they said was pretty unusual, but could be due to stress, pain or infection. Ultrasound was good, and they said his organs all looked nice and healthy.

We had him back home after that, and he was eating almost everything, aside from hay still, and seemed pretty normal. Then suddenly, over the weekend, he really dropped his appetite. He didn't even want banana or carrot (things he usually goes crazy for as they very rarely have them), and we resorted to critical care 5 times a day.

We went back to the vets yesterday as I wanted to double check his mouth and jaw. He went under anaesthetic and whilst there, they did some skull x-rays, as well as filing down some tiny spurs our vet noticed he had. He did mention that Earl had quite bad soft tissue damage on each cheek, where the molars are, and he can't understand where this has come from, as he actually remarked that Earl's teeth were near perfect and his jaw was in great alignment.

We have been sent home with Itrafungol, in case Earl has thrush on his tongue, and still to give the pain meds he has been on for the last few weeks (Loxicom 0.8ml twice daily, and Calpol 0.7ml twice daily, as well as emeprid three times a day.)

Currently, we're adding Fibreplex, Biolapis and Pro+Prebiotic pellets to his critical care at feeds, and he is taking most of it and pooping fine, he does put up a bit of a struggle during feeds but we manage to calm him down.

This morning he did not want anything to eat, but then did randomly take some dried nettles out of my hand and eat them all. But then nothing else, not even treats.

He is drooling a bit still, same as before, and every now and then he will chatter his teeth (but not the happy chatter), almost like he is chewing something in his mouth. He will do this whilst in a relaxed position (loaf or splooted out). He even flopped just now! So confusing.

I am currently waiting on a call from the vets as I would like Earl to be on antibiotics. Does anyone have any opinions on this? If it's soft tissue damage in his cheeks, and they can't see any other issues, surely antibiotics couldn't hurt for his cheeks to recover. I feel the drooling is to coat his mouth so he can't feel his sore cheeks.

Any advice is needed please, we're on 1 week of hardly any sleep now, and 2 days of round the clock feeds.

<3
 
Take a read of this thread, could the same thing have happened. A foreign body bedded in his tongue/cheeks ?


The most relevant post on the thread is this one

Well, it's been an intense time hence no updates, we kept her going over 4 days of closures over new year with fluids, gut meds, pain meds and syringe feeds. She seemed to gradually improve, taking 260ml of feed 4 times a day and she was comfortably out of stasis, but her inclination to eat by herself deteriorated to nothing. The last 2 days before they reopened there was a distinct change in her, she starting getting really aggressive towards the syringe at the end of feeds wanting to bite at it and then spending hours vigourously overgrooming her bib. I offered her thick twigs after each meal and she destroyed with her incisors as if she were a beaver, but none of it stayed in her mouth. I thought maybe after 2 weeks of not chewing her teeth had grown too much and she was now struggling to eat as a result, hence wanting to chew but not being able to grind it.
Got her back in for a dental on Thursday, earliest they could do (they only opened on Wednesday and were inundated), and I fully expected her to just have her teeth ground, wake up, maybe syringe to get her going and she'd be good.
When they went in her teeth were fine, but she had new sores on the roof of her mouth and new abrasions on the other side of her tongue too, with her tongue still being very swollen. In cleaning the bits of food from her morning syringe feed from the back of her mouth, my vet went to move a small particle - and I mean tiny, as it looked like recovery food - but it didn't move. He switched to finer forceps and went again - only to pull out an INCH of very fine wire from inside her tongue!!

So the poor girl must have had it right inside her tongue the whole time, but it's slowly worked it's way out enough to be seen. Even if we'd x-rayed the first time it is unlikely to have shown up well enough, let alone had a chance of finding it right inside her tongue. It's very flexible but incredibly sharp, so there was just no way without slicing her tongue repeatedly to try and find it.
The wire had caused her tongue to swell, causing the laceration with normal teeth. As she improved with swallowing it must have just started pushing through, enough to then start irritating the roof of her mouth.

Since then, she had a rough night that night and was clearly in pain again, struggling to swallow the syringe feeds but then by midday the next day she just started eating, and hasn't looked back. It's slow progress - she's still got the abrasions to heal, and an infection in the tongue - but she is steadily nibbling away, initially soft leafy stuff but today she took a fibrestick and a loop treat, though they are still clearly quite uncomfortable to consume.

We're still giving some syringe feeds to keep her gut happy until her volume increases enough, and she's got over a kg of weight to gain back, but she's on the mend.

As to how the wire got there - who knows. It doesn't fit anything in her environment, but it could simply have been in their forage or hay. It's been damned bad luck, and damned good luck that it was found how it was.
 
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Take a read of this thread, could the same thing have happened. A foreign body bedded in his tongue/cheeks ?


The most relevant post on the thread is this one
Just up for a syringe feed! Thank you for this! An interesting point - I do think Earl’s started immediately after his first molar spur trim however, as in the day he got back from the vets, so I feel it’s more like they maybe missed the teeth that our newest vet has smoothed down now? Worth considering for sure though, thank you! Touch wood his drooling has calmed considerably today.
 
Just up for a syringe feed! Thank you for this! An interesting point - I do think Earl’s started immediately after his first molar spur trim however, as in the day he got back from the vets, so I feel it’s more like they maybe missed the teeth that our newest vet has smoothed down now? Worth considering for sure though, thank you! Touch wood his drooling has calmed considerably today.

It probably is the case that the spurs caused some soft tissue damage. The dental itself could have made his mouth a bit sore too. I really hope he’s on the mend now 😀
 
It probably is the case that the spurs caused some soft tissue damage. The dental itself could have made his mouth a bit sore too. I really hope he’s on the mend now 😀
Thanks so much. I hope so! He shows sporadic interest in dandelions and the only veg he seems to fancy is the top of broccoli, a vegetable our buns don’t usually have. It makes me a bit anxious that he’s still not eating by himself, nearly 4 full days of critical care. At this point I’m so tied I feel like he’ll never eat by himself again and it can be quite demotivating to not see a huge change. I’m trying to stay positive though and push through :(
 
Thanks so much. I hope so! He shows sporadic interest in dandelions and the only veg he seems to fancy is the top of broccoli, a vegetable our buns don’t usually have. It makes me a bit anxious that he’s still not eating by himself, nearly 4 full days of critical care. At this point I’m so tied I feel like he’ll never eat by himself again and it can be quite demotivating to not see a huge change. I’m trying to stay positive though and push through :(


Is he still on regular analgesia ?

What is his poo and wee output like ?

Is he drinking ?
 
Thanks so much. I hope so! He shows sporadic interest in dandelions and the only veg he seems to fancy is the top of broccoli, a vegetable our buns don’t usually have. It makes me a bit anxious that he’s still not eating by himself, nearly 4 full days of critical care. At this point I’m so tied I feel like he’ll never eat by himself again and it can be quite demotivating to not see a huge change. I’m trying to stay positive though and push through :(
He is on Loxicom twice a day, 0.8ml, and Calpol, three times a day, 0.7ml. He is pooping quite nicely, solid and round. Very hay like in colour but only due to critical care. He is not drinking by himself but we are syringing BioLapis three times a day, and plain water as well as it being in the critical care so I hope that’s enough. Our vet said he wasn’t dehydrated.
 
With reference to his blood test, do you know the details of in what way the WBCs were ‘altered’ ?
they think it was because they put him on a Panacur course when he first seemed poorly? He's off the Panacur now. He has begun eating pellets and veggies now!! But not hay yet - although I did think I saw him eat a strand yesterday, but not counting that properly just yet!

Our other bunny Polly has some liver issues (there was a growth there last year), which she had removed (she is such a strong bunny!), and has been on antibiotics since. But she seemed a bit down the other day, so we took her in, and our vet could feel a rock hard something around her liver. We have upped her antibiotics (Baytril), and added some pain relief too. She seems fine on and off, but at points a bit slower. Does anyone have any experience with Milk Thistle? I am willing to try anything and everything if it means she can be more comfortable and her cheeky self for longer! x
 
they think it was because they put him on a Panacur course when he first seemed poorly? He's off the Panacur now. He has begun eating pellets and veggies now!! But not hay yet - although I did think I saw him eat a strand yesterday, but not counting that properly just yet!

Our other bunny Polly has some liver issues (there was a growth there last year), which she had removed (she is such a strong bunny!), and has been on antibiotics since. But she seemed a bit down the other day, so we took her in, and our vet could feel a rock hard something around her liver. We have upped her antibiotics (Baytril), and added some pain relief too. She seems fine on and off, but at points a bit slower. Does anyone have any experience with Milk Thistle? I am willing to try anything and everything if it means she can be more comfortable and her cheeky self for longer! x

Yes, I have used Milk Thistle in both Tincture and Forage form.

Has Polly had her liver enzymes rechecked ?
 
Yes, I have used Milk Thistle in both Tincture and Forage form.

Has Polly had her liver enzymes rechecked ?
She hasn't :( she had a mass in her liver due to Yersiniosis (would you believe!?) one could be removed, but one was attached so they could not remove it. So incredibly rare, the rabbit specialist we went to in Swindon were shocked and so were we. But she has been totally herself for the last 7 months, on Baytril. We haven't run bloods since she was last poorly as she has been so normal. I'm a little nervous to do it to be honest?

Can I get this?


It says for cats and dogs though? Also, would you be aware of an interaction with Baytril/Enrofloxacin.

Thank you!
 
She hasn't :( she had a mass in her liver due to Yersiniosis (would you believe!?) one could be removed, but one was attached so they could not remove it. So incredibly rare, the rabbit specialist we went to in Swindon were shocked and so were we. But she has been totally herself for the last 7 months, on Baytril. We haven't run bloods since she was last poorly as she has been so normal. I'm a little nervous to do it to be honest?

Can I get this?


It says for cats and dogs though? Also, would you be aware of an interaction with Baytril/Enrofloxacin.

Thank you!

I haven’t used that specific one. I’d want to know the exact ingredients in it. I have used Milk Thistle for rabbits who were also on Enroflaxacin ( on Veterinary advice).
 
Okay, thank you! good to know. Do you recall which one you used? Was it a liquid? Thank you!



 


Oh thank you so much! I have bought this now. Dosage wise, Polly is 2.8kg, sorry but do you remember how much you'd give?

Thank you!
 
Oh thank you so much! I have bought this now. Dosage wise, Polly is 2.8kg, sorry but do you remember how much you'd give?

Thank you!

I cant remember the amount I gave.These days I feed Milk Thistle forage a few times a week as part of my Rabbits’ normal diet.

I would speak with the Vet treating your Rabbit before you give any complimentary preparations 😀 My Vet advised me on how much to give, but it was quite a few years ago hence me not being able to remember now.
 
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