Penelope is dead

[Graciee]

She also made a couple of sneezing sounds tho he said iirc when she was struggling to get up, but it all happened within literally a minute I really wish we knew what happened for sure

 

[InspectorMorse]

She also made a couple of sneezing sounds tho he said iirc when she was struggling to get up, but it all happened within literally a minute I really wish we knew what happened for sure

Yeh the not knowing why makes everything so much harder to come to terms with

 

[Graciee]

Yeh the not knowing why makes everything so much harder to come to terms with

It really does I'm sorry you lost Maya in a similar way

 

[Craig 1965]

Graciee - I know how you are feeling about all of this right now. Reading the last few posts, it was an almost identical situation for Leo (with the exception of the huge op he had just undertaken). When Leo passed, his last moments were exactly as you described with Penelope and so I relate very much with this, and your feelings. When I spoke with Leo's vet a couple of days later, without us undertaking a PM, I gave her as detailed an opservation as I could of the situation and she told me that in her opinion, based on observations, that Leo also passed with heart failure which the vet said was almost certainly as a result of pasturella. The feeling was that with all the abx Leo was on, it cleaned his body out but in doing so allowed pasturella (naturally occuring in rabbits) a free shot in his weakened body and having found access to the blood stream, it ended up in his heart. I know this probably isn't any comfort to you, and believe me, 6 weeks to the day later, it is still incredibly painful for me reliving the events and trying to understand why, but hopefully you can at least feel see that others have passed in very similar circumstances. It never gets any easier.
And also, just to highlight the situation with Eriksson the footballer - he has what my father has - often called sudden death syndrome. It is caused by a defective gene (it's hereditory) and it is basically a thickening of the heart muscle through abnormalities. The heart mucsle enlarges and 'strangles' the heart, creating a sudden and usually fatal heart attack from which there is usually little return. The medical term is hypertrophic cardio myopathy. My father had a huge invasive operation 21 ywars ago where they basically 'shaved' the heart muscle, removing the excess. This was the best op at that time but my fathers health is deteriorating now (he's 81) and one option open to him is for them to inject pure alcohol into his veins which is supposed to ease the problem. But my father is now in a very very long queue in the NHS and it's doubtful that he will get any form of operation or process now.
Sending you hugs - I know how hard this all is.
Craig xx

 

[bunny momma]

Yeah, not knowing why a bunny passed can be difficult. I agree with JJ that cardiac arrest,electrical, verses heart attack,vascular, because nothing showed on pm/lab tests.
I suspect my sudden death bunny,Beenie Weenie, passed for the same reason.
Some electrical problems with the heart show no symptoms. Our hearts have nodes where electrical impulses regulate beating. Sometimes nodes are defective and in some conditions the defect is not identified/diagnosed. Thankfully this is not common,
The pm has provided scientific proof that you did not miss any warning signs-something all of us already knew.

I am glad Apricot is coping and your plan to get her a bunny friend is wonderful.

 

[twistedtiggerz69]

I still think about poor Penelope and wonder how you are doing and little Apricot. When you mentioned her on thread about Mr C I felt I needed to ask.

I'm so glad to read on here that she is slowly becoming more herself and that she has found comfort in hooman company. I hope you find a new friend for her soon to mend her broken heart a little and it will of course help mend yours a little too to see them together [emoji175]

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[Graciee]

Graciee - I know how you are feeling about all of this right now. Reading the last few posts, it was an almost identical situation for Leo (with the exception of the huge op he had just undertaken). When Leo passed, his last moments were exactly as you described with Penelope and so I relate very much with this, and your feelings. When I spoke with Leo's vet a couple of days later, without us undertaking a PM, I gave her as detailed an opservation as I could of the situation and she told me that in her opinion, based on observations, that Leo also passed with heart failure which the vet said was almost certainly as a result of pasturella. The feeling was that with all the abx Leo was on, it cleaned his body out but in doing so allowed pasturella (naturally occuring in rabbits) a free shot in his weakened body and having found access to the blood stream, it ended up in his heart. I know this probably isn't any comfort to you, and believe me, 6 weeks to the day later, it is still incredibly painful for me reliving the events and trying to understand why, but hopefully you can at least feel see that others have passed in very similar circumstances. It never gets any easier.
And also, just to highlight the situation with Eriksson the footballer - he has what my father has - often called sudden death syndrome. It is caused by a defective gene (it's hereditory) and it is basically a thickening of the heart muscle through abnormalities. The heart mucsle enlarges and 'strangles' the heart, creating a sudden and usually fatal heart attack from which there is usually little return. The medical term is hypertrophic cardio myopathy. My father had a huge invasive operation 21 ywars ago where they basically 'shaved' the heart muscle, removing the excess. This was the best op at that time but my fathers health is deteriorating now (he's 81) and one option open to him is for them to inject pure alcohol into his veins which is supposed to ease the problem. But my father is now in a very very long queue in the NHS and it's doubtful that he will get any form of operation or process now.
Sending you hugs - I know how hard this all is.
Craig xx

I never saw this before!

It's awful to witness isn't it I'm wondering if Penelope had pasteurella whether it would've shown up on the pm, I know they took samples and swabs of stuff, I might ask my vet if it would've shown that. She didn't have any symptoms but I'm guessing it's possible.. Its so hard to know. I really wish something had come back on the pm, it wouldn't have changed the fact she's gone but I could've at least known what happened and if I'd missed anything or done something wrong, I feel like it's something I must have done but could still be doing.. I have to admit sometimes when Apricot is not with me I go looking for her and half expect her to just be dead I'm wondering if I should get her heart tested tbh.

I'm really sorry about your dad, the NHS waiting times are ridiculous xx

 

[Graciee]

Yeah, not knowing why a bunny passed can be difficult. I agree with JJ that cardiac arrest,electrical, verses heart attack,vascular, because nothing showed on pm/lab tests.
I suspect my sudden death bunny,Beenie Weenie, passed for the same reason.
Some electrical problems with the heart show no symptoms. Our hearts have nodes where electrical impulses regulate beating. Sometimes nodes are defective and in some conditions the defect is not identified/diagnosed. Thankfully this is not common,
The pm has provided scientific proof that you did not miss any warning signs-something all of us already knew.

I am glad Apricot is coping and your plan to get her a bunny friend is wonderful.

Thanks bm, I still feel like I must have missed something honestly, but it's kind of you to say xx

 

[Graciee]

I still think about poor Penelope and wonder how you are doing and little Apricot. When you mentioned her on thread about Mr C I felt I needed to ask.

I'm so glad to read on here that she is slowly becoming more herself and that she has found comfort in hooman company. I hope you find a new friend for her soon to mend her broken heart a little and it will of course help mend yours a little too to see them together [emoji175]

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

Thanks xx

Yea she's doing better, but she's lonely for sure. Hopefully her new friend will be neutered soon and they'll be able to meet

 

[Zigzag]

Oooh you’re getting a friend? How lovely

 

[Graciee]

Oooh you’re getting a friend? How lovely

Yea we will either way, Apricot deserves a friend, she's a really sweet and loving bun

 

[Zigzag]

That’s so lovely. Such a big decision getting another bun, especially as they can be quite a lot of work. Although very rewarding.

Can’t wait to see Apricot’s husband!

 

[Graciee]

That’s so lovely. Such a big decision getting another bun, especially as they can be quite a lot of work. Although very rewarding.

Can’t wait to see Apricot’s husband!

Yea it is and it isn't for us I guess, the alternative would be rehoming Apricot, because I really do think all buns should have a friend if possible, although Apricot does really well with hoomans, and is very happy as a house bun, she's not destructive too which is nice [emoji38] but yea, we'll hopefully get her a friend and get them both outside in the hutch with the big run and runaround tube attachment I will miss her indoors though ngl [emoji38] same, I hope it all works out I mean she's only about 3 years old so hopefully we'll have her for a long time to come

 

[Zigzag]

Hopefully it will work out. I agree that all buns should have a friend if possible. Good that Apricot isn’t too destructive indoors- that can be a nightmare. I imagine that it might be easier if her and her friend/husband are outside, especially with your baby?

We thought about keeping Zigzag on his own for a while, and he was actually quite happy for around 6 months to a year. But then we both just knew he needed a partner. And that partner came in the shape of Winnie!


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[Graciee]

Hopefully it will work out. I agree that all buns should have a friend if possible. Good that Apricot isn’t too destructive indoors- that can be a nightmare. I imagine that it might be easier if her and her friend/husband are outside, especially with your baby?

We thought about keeping Zigzag on his own for a while, and he was actually quite happy for around 6 months to a year. But then we both just knew he needed a partner. And that partner came in the shape of Winnie!


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I mean yea I guess, although the baby is very attached to Apricot, they hang out all the time, so it's probably gunna be a bit weird for them both actually. Apricot is a weird rabbit she likes cuddles too [emoji38] but she used to love living outside too, she's just super chill really [emoji38] there'll be less white bunny fluff about and Atticus and Clementine can go back to living downstairs again.. There's pros and cons [emoji38]

Awh Winnie is the best [emoji7] Zigzag was very lucky to get such a pretty bun it's tough isn't though getting your bun a friend after they've lost a friend, and you have too.. Never easy!

 

[bunny momma]

Graciee
Even IF, and that is a blg if, Penelope had pasturella, it would have shown on pm if it was acute enough to cause death.
What you witnessed is awful to see, yet there is no warning.
Furthermore, she had surgery with two highly trained vets where they monitored her heart and breathing along with much follow-up care by professionals. They saw nothing.

It saddens me that you cannot realize that you did not miss anything because there was nothing to see. You have amazed me with the care you give your bunnies. I sometimes think my tiny Dash and Evan would be alive like Atticus,who has the same condition, if they had you as their human. Then I think of the joy they gave us and how sick they arrived here and realize without me they would not have survived another week.

It is good to hear Apricot is doing well with her humans,especially Evelyn, as an indoor bunny. Sending you all vibes.

 

[Graciee]

Graciee
Even IF, and that is a blg if, Penelope had pasturella, it would have shown on pm if it was acute enough to cause death.
What you witnessed is awful to see, yet there is no warning.
Furthermore, she had surgery with two highly trained vets where they monitored her heart and breathing along with much follow-up care by professionals. They saw nothing.

It saddens me that you cannot realize that you did not miss anything because there was nothing to see. You have amazed me with the care you give your bunnies. I sometimes think my tiny Dash and Evan would be alive like Atticus,who has the same condition, if they had you as their human. Then I think of the joy they gave us and how sick they arrived here and realize without me they would not have survived another week.

It is good to hear Apricot is doing well with her humans,especially Evelyn, as an indoor bunny. Sending you all vibes.

Yea that's probably true actually isn't it, I assume it would've shown up if it was pasturella. I don't really know what they do and don't show, and I've been reluctant to look into it because I don't really want to read about it in an unfiltered way, because it might upset me, so I've not researched it like I normally would've.

It's so hard not to blame yourself I think, I always look at how I can do things better, to improve things going forward, I'm constantly trying to learn from my mistakes so I think it's just natural when something goes terribly wrong that I'm looking at how I could've avoided it happening.

See I don't believe that, if you couldn't keep them going I doubt I could've honestly. You're amazing at bunny care and always remind me how beneficial fluids are [emoji38] they would've had the absolute best chance with you, I know this. Atticus isn't well atm anyway he's losing weight slowly and I'm really struggling currently with him it's a battle I'll lose eventually I think. I just cannot find the right balance for him. It's so hard managing this condition, between the crazy frequent gut stasis episodes, and then just extra daily care required, it's a lot! I just wish I could get him to gain some weight honestly

 

[joey&boo]

Awww, Apricots gonna get a new buddy. Can't wait to hear more

 

[keletkezes]

OK I'm going to come clean: we're 'reserving' Buttons for Apricot I'm currently in Essex so he is a little later being neutered and I have to make two trips to Essex (coming back post-neuter recovery) because it's easier for us to get him neutered and stuff as we have space right now He's such a chilled but active little lad, it seemed like fate Also Matt says we can't keep him because 1.) we've hit our black&white rabbit quota and 2.) he can't reach as high as our rabbits so would miss out on carrot strips, bramble etc. :lol:

 

[joey&boo]

eeekkk ...he's a lovely bun. Really hope it all works out.