Unhappy with our vet

[bunnyp]

Hi, again

We are becoming very familiar with this forum and grateful for all the friendly faces and supportive words. We are back yet again with a new post re: our vet and the diagnosis for our senior bunny.

In a recent health post a fellow user asked if EC was considered a possibility for my bunny's recent health issues. After spending a day+ googling this and reading through all the forums, I figured it was a VERY viable option and worth a treatment to rule out if anything. I asked our vet for panacur.

The vet emailed me back with "I don't think Bunny has worms, but we can run a fecal test", and I'm starting to realize my so-called rabbit savvy vet is not very rabbit savvy. This sucks because one before this didn't even know how to do a physical exam, I was showing him...

My understanding is EC is found through blood and urine tests, not fecal matter. Also, the fact that my vet is stuck on this being possible cancer - without any testing, never once considered EC, and still wasn't familiar with panacur being the go to solution for EC, a parasite, not worms. It was enough that I asked for Bunny's medical records and we are off to try our luck at another "rabbit savvy" vet on Monday.

This is definitely a bit of a venting post, but also, I'm just looking for some validation. Reading through her records and the diagnosis again, with specific note that says "OP (me) doesn't understand the severity of issues and should be considering euthanasia". This was our first visit with this vet. One urine test and a physical exam was conducted - and then I was offered to put my rabbit to sleep during that same appointment?!?!?!? There was also a note in there about this most likely being Bunny's last year of life - I get that shes older, but again I want her to decide when she is ready to go.

We have been home for 2 days since then and bunny is as lively as ever, cuddling, eating, pooping. There is still pain from the arthritis, but I'm sad that I'm learning more from this forum than I am from this medical professional.

Am I absolutely delusional as I'm being made to feel, or are we just not working with someone that knows what they are doing?! I talked to my family about this, and they all think bunny is doing amazing too. My cousin came over yesterday and was shocked at how well bunny is doing, playful, loafing, if the prognosis was so deadly.

The cherry on top was being asked, via email, 2 days after our visit if Bunny was spayed. She was spayed, at that very clinic. I am flush with feelings right now

 

[Zoobec]

I am glad you are finding the forum so helpful, it is a shame that a lot of vets are not rabbit savvy. It certainly seems like your rabbit is still feeling happy and quality of life is the main thing. I hope you find the new vet is rabbit savvy.

 

[InspectorMorse]

You are definitely doing the right thing by seeking a second opinion from another Vet. Without any diagnostics it’s impossible for a Vet to know that your Rabbit has cancer. Even if it is not EC there are many other possible causes of her symptoms. IMO for the Vet to even raise the subject of Euthanasia at this early stage is inappropriate.
You have probably already done a lot of research, but I am posting the following links in case you haven’t read them

Rabbits and E. cuniculi (Encephalitozoon cuniculi)

Understand the impact of E. cuniculi (Encephalitozoon cuniculi) on rabbits. Expert advice and resources to safeguard your bunny's health.

rabbitwelfare.co.uk

WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGES https://www.vettimes.co.uk/app/uplo...phalitozoon-cuniculi-infection-in-rabbits.pdf

Encephalitozoon cuniculi in pet rabbits: diagnosis and optimal managem | VMRR

Encephalitozoon cuniculi in pet rabbits: diagnosis and optimal management La'Toya V Latney,1 Charles W Bradley,2 Nicole R Wyre1 1Departments of Clinical Studies, 2Departments of Pathobiology, Matthew J Ryan Veterinary Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA, USA Abstract...

www.dovepress.com

I would want the Vet to run a full blood work up, including PCR testing for EC.

Carry out as thorough oral examination as possible in a conscious Rabbit

Repeat urinalysis

Check heart and lungs for any hint of cardiac disease or lower respiratory tract problems

Carry out a thorough abdominal examination

Assess mobility to check for any signs of osteoarthtitis

Examine ears for any sign of otitis

Re check weight to see if more has been lost or if weight is stable.

I would NOT expect the subject of euthanasia to be raised unless it was done by the Rabbit’s care giver themselves.

Good luck with your consultation with the next Vet.

 

[bunny momma]

I am so sorry you are dealing with this. It is bad enough to have a rabbit with symptoms of some problem without also having to deal with a vet that clearly does not respect the wishes of you or your bunny.
My vet is wonderful, yet I am in the same position as you when he is not available in urgent situations.
I hope your bunny's appointment on Monday goes well.

 

[Shimmer]

Many vets just don't have the experience or training to deal with rabbits. Many owners see them as 'replaceable' pets and just don't bother taking them to a vet for anything (which also means that some vets don't see rabbits). It's also relatively expensive to treat rabbits, so PTS may possibly be considered on that basis as a viable option to prevent suffering. I think people on here see things differently and want to do more for their rabbits. A lot of us have had to learn as we go along. A good vet will talk you through the available options and will know their own limitations. Often the answer is to try something generic and see if it works. You may not always get a definitive diagnosis.

If a vet has made a cancer diagnosis, I would definitely want to ask more questions. Euthanasia has only ever been mentioned to me when the animal had proven life-limiting issues.

I hope your new appointment gives you some answers.

 

[bunnyp]

Thank you so much to everyone for the understanding and kind words. It feels really nice to have a safe space on here, I wish we joined sooner!!

I am going to do everything I can to help Bunny live her best life, we are even enjoying sleepovers so I can watch her all night and she uses that time to hop all over me . I wish everyone could experience what wonderful sentient beings they are

I will update my post and add a photo of her happy self later

 

[Barn Yard Bunnies]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I had the same problem with my chinchillas, saw 4 vets in two weeks before we found an exotic vet. You know when they are clueless.

If you need more local vet help you can always ask for recommendations on here. Good luck with the second vet.

 

[bunnyp]

Hi, everyone!

We have a great update! We met the new vet today who said 50% of her practice was rabbits. She is not that concerned about bunny's low weight, we actually think its probably from her avoiding her hay from having some overgrowth in her molars.

She does have arthritis, and her sore hocks are on their way to healing. We don't feel she has EC, just age-related issues and our focus is going to be improving quality of life. She provided a lot of great support around how I can help bunny's sore hocks heal faster, though the real issue they stemmed from has been removed from her living area.

I'm going to offer bunny some critical care to supplement fiber in her diet and help her build strength until her dental surgery next week! There is also a full screening and bloodwork going into that, including radiographs, which is going to give us insight into her internal health. Otw. the vet thinks shes a beautiful and healthy little bun <3

I am also considering calling the original vet clinic to express my concerns around my experience. I don't want other rabbit parents to be experiencing anything like we did.

 

[InspectorMorse]

Hi, everyone!

We have a great update! We met the new vet today who said 50% of her practice was rabbits. She is not that concerned about bunny's low weight, we actually think its probably from her avoiding her hay from having some overgrowth in her molars.

She does have arthritis, and her sore hocks are on their way to healing. We don't feel she has EC, just age-related issues and our focus is going to be improving quality of life. She provided a lot of great support around how I can help bunny's sore hocks heal faster, though the real issue they stemmed from has been removed from her living area.

I'm going to offer bunny some critical care to supplement fiber in her diet and help her build strength until her dental surgery next week! There is also a full screening and bloodwork going into that, including radiographs, which is going to give us insight into her internal health. Otw. the vet thinks shes a beautiful and healthy little bun <3

I am also considering calling the original vet clinic to express my concerns around my experience. I don't want other rabbit parents to be experiencing anything like we did.

Fantastic I hope the Dental procedure will go well.

I would definitely submit a complaint to the first Vet you saw. If they chose to ignore the fact that they need to upskill their knowledge about Rabbits that says more about their arrogance than anything else. I have no problem with a Vet who knows little about Rabbits as long as they are up front about the fact and refer the client on to a better qualified professional colleague. In the UK the Vet Med syllabus still only has a minimal part dedicated to Rabbits. And it falls under the category of ‘Exotics’ so that limited part also has to cover numerous other exotic species. There needs to be a major shake up of the Vet Med syllabus to enable all Vets to receive better training about Rabbits. That would go some way to improving the situation regarding the scarcity of Rabbit Savvy Vets. At the moment it is only if an individual Vet has a specific interest in Rabbits that they take it upon themselves to do further training. They have to fund this themselves too!

Sorry, that epistle was a long winded way of saying I am not ‘Vet bashing’, the majority of Vets are hard working compassionate professionals. But if their initial training is lacking then they are not being given adequate ‘tools’ to carry out their trade.

 

[bunny momma]

I am glad you found a vet that has the knowledge to treat your bunny.
Sending lots of positive vibes that your syringe feed sessions go well and her dental next week will improve her eating and help her maintain an appropriate weight.

 

[joey&boo]

Fab update. I'm so pleased you've an experienced & compassionate vet now. Good to hear the weight loss isn't anything outside of what you'd expect for a bunny needing dentistry & the sore hocks improving. The future certainly looks more positive

 

[Omi]

Really pleased to read your update.

 

[dollyanna]

Just catching up with your thread and wanted to add something. On top of the minimal training the average vet receives, I think there is also still a big element that the majority of rabbit owners do not want to invest in the medical care of their bunnies the way most of us here do. This may be reflected in the abrupt conversation your vet had with you about euthanasia.
I've had some interesting chats with my acupuncture vet recently - not my normal practice - and she often comments on how much care my rabbits gets, and how much their lifestyle is vastly different compared to the average rabbit she sees in practice. My impression, sadly, is that because they majority of rabbits she sees in normal practice are kept very poorly, outdoor hutches, small runs etc, it has in turn given her quite a negative view towards rabbits and probably their owners. It's hard to justify the extra cost of training, and maintaining a passion to learn, when you just hit brick walls with using any of that knowledge in practice because owners see a rabbit as a disposable commodity type of pet more often than an irreplaceable family member.
Obviously this doesn't apply to all vets, and probably varies considerably with geographical location too (we're very much a farming community), but it has made me think about it from a different viewpoint.
On the plus side I think Odin is helping to change that a bit, and showing her what a well kept, healthy rabbit who has all his species specific needs met can really be like.