Help Needed - For at home physio hind legs

[AlexandDukey]

Hi everyone, and hi to your bunnies!

My gorgeous lion head Dukey has been having a tough time over the last couple of months. He is a very loving and strong bunny who turned 8yrs old this Feb time.

He has recently recovered from a strain ecconiculi that affected his left hip in awful ways. After countless vet trips, mite treatments and a full dose of panacure within a week after treatment was complete he was able to run and hop around again. I couldn’t believe it,it was an utter miracle!

About two weeks go on, and we notice he is becoming slightly wobbly on his left side again. We have doing short physio sessions to avoid stress and to mostly help keep the strength in his legs. The reason I want to join your society is to make sure that I understand how to gently continue with the effective physio at home.

Duke is very tolerable, he doesn’t bite and loves affection. So, this makes it much easier to keep on top of the physio myself. Plus he gets very upset going to the vets. He used to live in his outdoor double hutch before getting ill (my poor little man) with regular plays in his garden run. Now he lives inside his indoor hutch and is free to roam around our office whenever we are at home.

Please tell me if you have ever had any similar experiences or if you have any tips that could support his recovery. We would be so grateful to receive your help.

 

[Shimmer]

EC can reccur. If he's starting to show symptoms again, he may need another 28 day course of Panacur to reduce the level of the parasite in his system. He should also have had an anti-inflammatory, such as Metacam - that reduces the damage dome by the parasite and so reduces the visible symptoms. At 8yo, he may also be a bit arthritic - so Metacam would help with that as well. I would have a word with your vet.

I would try to make sure that he has as much opportunity as possible to move around - which would mean not shutting him in a hutch and giving him 24hr access to as much space as is practical. That is the natural way to maintain his mobility. Puppy panels can be used to section off part of a room, or to protect furniture & wires from bunny attack.

The spores of the EC parasite are excreted in urine, so it's important that anything that may come into contact with urine is able to be regularly disinfected (eg bleach, steam, Virkon S on a weekly basis). That would include anywhere that he has floor access to (so carpets, etc).

 

[InspectorMorse]

Panacur does not cure EC, it just reduces the number of spores circulating in the bloodstream. Clinical symptoms of EC occur if any circulating spores erupt into cells of various parts of the body, usually within the CNS, the Kidneys and the lenses of the eyes. So even after a full 28 day course of Panacur flare ups of clinical symptoms can occur. Often at times when the immune system is under stress for some reason.

Have you consulted the Vet again about the recurrence of symptoms ? This needs to be done. As well as Panacur treatment of EC should include a non steroidal anti inflammatory eg Metacam. It is the inflammation caused when EC spores erupt that results in the clinical symptoms. So it’s important to try to reduce the inflammation to minimise permanent cellular damage.

I am assuming that the Vet ruled out the possibility of the hind leg problems being related to a spinal issue ? This is obviously essential before embarking on any form of physiotherapy.

 

[AlexandDukey]

EC can reccur. If he's starting to show symptoms again, he may need another 28 day course of Panacur to reduce the level of the parasite in his system. He should also have had an anti-inflammatory, such as Metacam - that reduces the damage dome by the parasite and so reduces the visible symptoms. At 8yo, he may also be a bit arthritic - so Metacam would help with that as well. I would have a word with your vet.

I would try to make sure that he has as much opportunity as possible to move around - which would mean not shutting him in a hutch and giving him 24hr access to as much space as is practical. That is the natural way to maintain his mobility. Puppy panels can be used to section off part of a room, or to protect furniture & wires from bunny attack.

The spores of the EC parasite are excreted in urine, so it's important that anything that may come into contact with urine is able to be regularly disinfected (eg bleach, steam, Virkon S on a weekly basis). That would include anywhere that he has floor access to (so carpets, etc).

I will get him some more panacur and we will begin another dose. In your experience is it harmful to give a rabbit another course of panacur treatment? He finished the treatment just over two weeks ago.
Can metacam and panacur be taken during the same time? I’m not sure if this is true, however my vet advised us to make sure the metacam is no longer in his system before beginning the panacur treatment.

That is a very good idea. I will make sure he has plenty of around the clock exercise and access to space.

Yes I always remove any soiled puppy pads, bedding straight away. I have been bleaching the hutch with spray every day, then I wipe and then I spray over with pet safe disinfectant and will wipe away all residue from the hutch before laying down his fresh bedding down. (Puppy pads, shavings, and hay)
I will look into pet safe disinfectant for the carpet cleaning.
Thank you so much!

 

[AlexandDukey]

Panacur does not cure EC, it just reduces the number of spores circulating in the bloodstream. Clinical symptoms of EC occur if any circulating spores erupt into cells of various parts of the body, usually within the CNS, the Kidneys and the lenses of the eyes. So even after a full 28 day course of Panacur flare ups of clinical symptoms can occur. Often at times when the immune system is under stress for some reason.

Have you consulted the Vet again about the recurrence of symptoms ? This needs to be done. As well as Panacur treatment of EC should include a non steroidal anti inflammatory eg Metacam. It is the inflammation caused when EC spores erupt that results in the clinical symptoms. So it’s important to try to reduce the inflammation to minimise permanent cellular damage.

I am assuming that the Vet ruled out the possibility of the hind leg problems being related to a spinal issue ? This is obviously essential before embarking on any form of physiotherapy.

That is so interesting thank you. I’ve learnt a lot here, it was certainly time for me to gage a deeper understanding of EC. I worry that I have brought home the EC from the donkey sanctuary when I volunteered at back in April. I blitzed every piece of clothing, scrubbed my nails, before going anywhere near Duke. But I won’t be going back to work there as I would never want to put him in any harm.

I will be repurchasing the panacur treatment as through this difficult time the panacur is the main part that got Duke back to feeling himself. At one point, when this first started to escalate he was unable to stand at his food bowl so we made adjustments by stacking the bowls on top of one another. Now he can finally stand up for however long he likes and is back to eating at a normal height from his favourite Peter rabbit bowl.

He is hopping around and eating well (he’s always had a great appetite) I’m just becoming very worried seeing the wobbles to the left when he is now moving around.
I’ve been supporting his waist whilst he moves around, I found this physio technique from researching the web.
About a month ago on our third visit to the vet (this time we saw the exotic specialist) I thought It may be arthritis too, even though the vet ruled that diagnosis out straight away because she diagnosed based on his stance and how he was almost twisting to the side. She was definite it was the left hip that was being affected by EC.

 

[Shimmer]

Whatever disinfectant you use needs to be able to kill EC spores, and have sufficient contact time to enable it to work. Most general disinfectants won't do this. Virkon S can be used on fabrics (eg in a washing machine) and carpets - do the usual patch test first. Or use a steam cleaner.

Metacam and Panacur are given daily for 28 days for a standard course of EC treatment. I've had a rabbit on it for nearly a year when she had extreme recurring EC symptoms (ie head fixed round to her shoulder, hind leg weakness). She eventually made a really good recovery with hardly any permanent physical effects.

If my vet gave me the advice yours has, I would be looking for a rabbt savvy vet. There is plenty of literature on the usual treatment of EC. Metacam is often given alongside other treatments, so I really don't understand why you were told this. The only reason you normally have to give a gap is when you are switching to corticosteroids from Metacam, which isn't what's happening here.

 

[AlexandDukey]

Hi Shimmer,

I’ve just ordered a tub of Virkon S tablets. The reviews from many pet owners are so positive and amazing.
I had been using an anti bacterial spray so maybe this was not strong enough.
I’ll start researching how I can safely disinfect the office carpet.
I might buy a rug for when he likes to hide so then I can easily wash that with the Virkon S.

Okay well that’s reassuring to hear now that we know we don’t have to hang around waiting for a treatment gap as time is so precious and that would be unnecessary.
I’m going to make arrangements for the metacam and the panacur I can pick up today.
I’m really happy to hear your bun managed to recover from their illness.

Yes I think I may have to find a vet through the link on the page.
I agree, this is completely new to me and I did not realise they can be taken together. I really appreciate your time to take me through everything that is going to help my pukey boy.

 

[InspectorMorse]

I will get him some more panacur and we will begin another dose. In your experience is it harmful to give a rabbit another course of panacur treatment? He finished the treatment just over two weeks ago.
Can metacam and panacur be taken during the same time? I’m not sure if this is true, however my vet advised us to make sure the metacam is no longer in his system before beginning the panacur treatment.

That is a very good idea. I will make sure he has plenty of around the clock exercise and access to space.

Yes I always remove any soiled puppy pads, bedding straight away. I have been bleaching the hutch with spray every day, then I wipe and then I spray over with pet safe disinfectant and will wipe away all residue from the hutch before laying down his fresh bedding down. (Puppy pads, shavings, and hay)
I will look into pet safe disinfectant for the carpet cleaning.
Thank you so much!

You can use a steam cleaner for carpeted areas. Steam kills EC spores

It’s highly unlikely you brought the EC in from the Donkey Sanctuary. EC is often transmitted from Dam to kits whilst the kits are still in the womb. The EC parasite is excreted BEFORE any clinical symptoms present. But before being excreted the parasite will leave spores in the bloodstream. It’s not the parasite that causes clinical symptoms, it’s the EC spores if the immune system of the affected Rabbit is unable to keep the infection controlled. Some Rabbits can be infected by the EC parasite and never show any clinical symptoms for their whole life

This link gives detailed information about EC

https://www.vettimes.co.uk/app/uploads/wp-post-to-pdf-enhanced-cache/1/treatment-of-encephalitozoon-cuniculi-infection-in-rabbits.pdf

 

[Shimmer]

There are lots of threads on here about EC treatment and care, if you do a search (button on top right). Here are some other relevant papers & links as well:

Encephalitozoon Cuniculi

Our advice to help you care for your pets at home and in between visits to your practice.

www.mulberryvets.co.uk

Rabbits and E. cuniculi (Encephalitozoon cuniculi)

Understand the impact of E. cuniculi (Encephalitozoon cuniculi) on rabbits. Expert advice and resources to safeguard your bunny's health.

rabbitwelfare.co.uk

Encephalitozoon cuniculi in rabbits

Encephalitozoon cuniculi is a small pathogen that is spread in urine and mainly affects the nervous system (brain and spinal cord) and kidneys. The disease is very common in the pet rabbit population and can be carried by other animals including wild rabbits.

www.rvc.ac.uk

https://www.vettimes.co.uk/app/uploads/wp-post-to-pdf-enhanced-cache/1/treatment-of-encephalitozoon-cuniculi-infection-in-rabbits.pdf

Encephalitozoon cuniculi in pet rabbits: diagnosis and optimal managem | VMRR

Encephalitozoon cuniculi in pet rabbits: diagnosis and optimal management La'Toya V Latney,1 Charles W Bradley,2 Nicole R Wyre1 1Departments of Clinical Studies, 2Departments of Pathobiology, Matthew J Ryan Veterinary Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA, USA Abstract...

www.dovepress.com

Notes:
CNS = Central Nervous System
Fenbendazole = active ingredient in Panacur
Anti-inflammatory: NSAIDs such as Metacam are effective at reducing the CNS damage caused by the parasite, without the side effects that Corticosteroids can have.

 

[Orenoko]

I had a bunny with hind leg weakness, and doing things like encouraging them to put their front legs on a small step and then stretch forward for a treat, for example, was one of the physio exercises we used.

 

[AlexandDukey]

I had a bunny with hind leg weakness, and doing things like encouraging them to put their front legs on a small step and then stretch forward for a treat, for example, was one of the physio exercises we used.

Thanks so much, we’ll give this a try!

 

[AlexandDukey]

Hey guys!
Thanks for your great advice.
We started the Panacur yesterday and we’ve had some bunny zoomies this morning. My Virkon S tablets have arrived now. I’ve not long prepared a solution and have wiped this all over Duke’s accommodation.
(I also purchased a carpet steamer and have steamed the area twice)
I can see this solution can be very toxic so I want to get my facts straight for safety reasons. Is it safe to leave this to work for 30 minutes, and next rinse out very well before adding new bedding? Or do I need to also spray pet safe disinfectant over the top once everywhere has been rinsed off?

 

[InspectorMorse]

Hey guys!
Thanks for your great advice.
We started the Panacur yesterday and we’ve had some bunny zoomies this morning. My Virkon S tablets have arrived now. I’ve not long prepared a solution and have wiped this all over Duke’s accommodation.
(I also purchased a carpet steamer and have steamed the area twice)
I can see this solution can be very toxic so I want to get my facts straight for safety reasons. Is it safe to leave this to work for 30 minutes, and next rinse out very well before adding new bedding? Or do I need to also spray pet safe disinfectant over the top once everywhere has been rinsed off?

As long as you rinse well and allow the surfaces to 100% dry before putting new bedding down you do not need to apply a second disinfectant.

 

[Shimmer]

Virkon is better than any of the standard disinfectants. We used to use it in the microbiology lab and I have some at home.
You definitely don't need to use 2 types of disinfectant on the same item. I would awaysrinse off whatever you use after the recommended contact time.

Virkon can be made up and kept for up to a week eg in a spray bottle. It will degrade to a strong bleach if left for too long. Pretty much all other disinfectants need to be made up for each use (ie daily or when it is contaminated in use).

 

[AlexandDukey]

Hello all,

Hope you’re well!

Duke has been doing great up until last Thursday evening when we noticed he was becoming off balanced and found difficultly in hopping. During the start of that week and previous week he had been reintroduced into his garden for 1-2 hours each day. I fear that he maybe caught more of the EC from being on the grass as this would be a familiar patch of grass due to us having a small garden.
He has not been outside for a couple of days again now and luckily since yesterday evening he’s hopping around and seems much happier. Which is great news !

Is there a pet safe disinfectant to use on the grass? We also have a small dog that has a big craving for chomping on grass because he likes to copy Duke with most things :’)

 

[Orenoko]

Hello all,

Hope you’re well!

Duke has been doing great up until last Thursday evening when we noticed he was becoming off balanced and found difficultly in hopping. During the start of that week and previous week he had been reintroduced into his garden for 1-2 hours each day. I fear that he maybe caught more of the EC from being on the grass as this would be a familiar patch of grass due to us having a small garden.
He has not been outside for a couple of days again now and luckily since yesterday evening he’s hopping around and seems much happier. Which is great news !

Is there a pet safe disinfectant to use on the grass? We also have a small dog that has a big craving for chomping on grass because he likes to copy Duke with most things :’)

I'm not sure about disinfectant which can be used outside but it is normal for EC recovery to be up and down so what you describe may not necessarily be unusual. Hope Duke continues to recover.

 

[AlexandDukey]

I'm not sure about disinfectant which can be used outside but it is normal for EC recovery to be up and down so what you describe may not necessarily be unusual. Hope Duke continues to recover.

Thank you for your message.

Will he be safe to play outside or can EC spread via the grass?

 

[InspectorMorse]

Thank you for your message.

Will he be safe to play outside or can EC spread via the grass?

It is spread by spores shed in urine. Spores remain viable outside of the host for some time. So it’s best not to allow a Rabbit with clinically symptomatic EC onto grass

 

[Shimmer]

It is spread by spores shed in urine. Spores remain viable outside of the host for some time. So it’s best not to allow a Rabbit with clinically symptomatic EC onto grass

By 'some time' - that means many months. Grass can't be suitably disinfected, either.

 

[AlexandDukey]

It is spread by spores shed in urine. Spores remain viable outside of the host for some time. So it’s best not to allow a Rabbit with clinically symptomatic EC onto grass

Thank you, your advice is most appreciated.