Froddo has a severe otitis - need advice

[Froddotherabbit]

Hello all.
Im devastated...Froddo my dwarf lop bunny is diagnosed with a severe otitis.
This started the previous Monday that suddenly he stopped eating. Along with this i noticed an imbalance when he was trying to jump, but not something extreme or making him difficult on moving around.
Next morning there was a blizzard in my area so it was difficult to move him to the savvy rabbit vet. So the next best option was to a vet near my home that is aware of bunny issues, but not an expert.
This vet diagnosis was e cuniculi and gave me medication for this. Panacur for 28 days and enrox antibiotics for 10 days. The next 5 days was no improvement. I was hand feeding him some hay and a few pellets. He didnt eat on his own, only a few fresh vegetables. I informed vet about the situation and she said that i should stop antibiotics as she thought that was the reason that he was not eating. I didnt want to to do it, but i did in. Still the next two days there was no improvement on his appetite. Froddo didn't want to chew anything but a few fresh greens.
When the weather inproved on Tuesday i visited my savvy vet as an emergency. He is since then hospitalized. The savvy vet diagnosis was a severe otittis on both ears, that are full of pus. They immediately started a therapy with antibiotics and pain medication. Now since Tuesday is on force feeding, he is doing some poops but still not eating in his own. Today they are going to do flushing on both ears as they are congested with pus and they have to clean them to make him feel better.
Im very worried about Froddo. Is it normal that he still not eating ? You think he will start soon? Also vet told me that the one ear is so bad that likely they will need to do a surgery. Im completely lost ans stressed. The expenses for this vet are enormous. Im already on 300euros debt and every day is getting bigger. Soon i will not be able to pay all these
And especially if a surgery is mandatory.... Any advice is welcome and please pray for Froddo to recover...
*Sorry for the huge message and my English.
Here a few photos of him from the last night at home

 

[Omi]

Hello, I'm sorry that Froddo has Otitis in both ears. Has Froddo been with your rabbit savvy vet since yesterday then? Antibiotics and pain relief is the correct way to treat this. Do you know whether the vet has done a culture and sensitivity test on the pus, to confirm that Froddo is on the correct antibiotics? I'm not that surprised that he doesn't feel like eating. The condition is probably causing him pain, plus the fact that he is having his ears flushed, which will also be uncomfortable. Hopefully the pain will reduce soon and he will be feeling better and then will want to start eating again. In the meantime supportive, additional feeds are the best thing to keep his digestion working properly. It is also good that he is producing poops.

Try to focus on getting Froddo through this stage and then the vet can assess whether in fact surgery will be necessary. Yes, the vet costs would also be high for this type of treatment in the UK, but he is in the best place and it sounds as though he is getting appropriate treatment.

He is a very handsome bunny and I hope he will improve very soon.

 

[bunny momma]

He is very handsome. Sending vibes antibiotics will soon control his ear infection and he will return to eating.

 

[Froddotherabbit]

*Update*
Talked with the vet earlier. They did the flushing on both ears and Froddo came out from anesthesia fine. They completely removed the pus that was visible from the ears but unfortunately the ear drum from the right ear is raptured. That is causing a lot of pain to Froddo and most likely this is the reason he is not eating normal. They want to monitor the situation for one more day and maybe tomorrow i will be able to take him home and continue giving the medication.
Vet still very strongly suggesting the surgery sometime in the near future as the accoustic canal is very narrow on left ear and will cause the same problem again if left the way it is. Although im not sure if i can afford it.
Hope tomorrow Froddo will be better!

 

[InspectorMorse]

Sadly Lops are very prone to otitis. Unfortunately it is usually very problematic to treat. The gold standard treatment usually involves CT scans, surgery, microscopy from swabs, appropriate antibiotics (sometimes for life) and of great importance is ongoing analgesic cover. All this is obviously going to be costly.

In some cases it might be possible to give a more palliative care approach such as life long antibiotics and pain relief with regular Vet checks to assess disease progression. Once the tympanic membrane has ruptured there is a high risk that the infection will spread into the middle ear. This can cause vestibular symptoms such as head tilt. It won’t be surprising if Froddo is unsteady on his feet and possibly has a head tilt after having his ears canals flushed out given that a tympanic membrane was found to be ruptured. However, there is a chance that these vestibular symptoms will settle over a few days as long as active infection doesnt get into the middle ear

I would discuss your options with your Vet and explain your financial constraints. A more conservative treatment plan.might be possible which won’t be curative but could enable Froddo to remain with you and have a reasonable quality of life for some time. Cost would be much less than treatment aiming for a cure ie all the scans and surgeries. These can run into thousands of pounds.

These links provide some information about otitis externa and media

https://www.vettimes.co.uk/app/uplo...itis-externa-media-and-interna-in-rabbits.pdf

https://www.rvc.ac.uk/clinical-connections/rabbit-ear-disease

https://www.veterinarywebinars.com/...oads/2016/03/Study_Notes_Ear_Nose_Rabbits.pdf

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Otit/otitis.htm

https://yarmouthvetcenter.com/total-ear-canal-ablation.pml

https://www.vvs.vet/rabbit-otitis-externa-case-study/

 

[Pets mum]

Sending lots of vibes for Froddo, and hope he is well enough to come home soon.

 

[Zoobec]

Sending lots of vibes for Froddo :wave:

 

[Froddotherabbit]

Hello!
Froddo is back home from the vet. He is doing surprisingly great! He is very active and his appetite is slowly returning. He is eating some hay, fresh greens and he nibbled a few pellet food. He is also pooping fine!
We had a nice talk with the vet, that explained me that is very important to procceed to the surgery on the ears. She is going to do a Lateral ear resection. She is very experienced and she assured me that will only make good to the rabbit. He is doing very often this surgery and she even showed me some photos from the surgery she had the previous day. Rabbits after this operation they heal easily and will help long term so the infection wont return.
Froddo both ear drums as raptured. He is not listening well for sure, but vet told me that will not be a problem as he is living indoor. Sometime there is some inbalance on his movement, but nothing major. Vet told me that this may go away soon.
I will continue to give meloxicam 0,66ml / 24h for 5 more day. Marbofloxacin antibiotic 1ml / 24h for 10 more days. Hopride gut mobility 1ml /12h for 3 more days.
Vet told me to schedule the surgery in about a month. There is high possibility both ears will need the surgery but not in the same time. The price for this operation is 150euros. Im very relieved as its aprice i can afford.
Hope he will be getting better day by day.
Anyone has any experience with this surgery?

 

[InspectorMorse]

Hello!
Froddo is back home from the vet. He is doing surprisingly great! He is very active and his appetite is slowly returning. He is eating some hay, fresh greens and he nibbled a few pellet food. He is also pooping fine!
We had a nice talk with the vet, that explained me that is very important to procceed to the surgery on the ears. She is going to do a Lateral ear resection. She is very experienced and she assured me that will only make good to the rabbit. He is doing very often this surgery and she even showed me some photos from the surgery she had the previous day. Rabbits after this operation they heal easily and will help long term so the infection wont return.
Froddo both ear drums as raptured. He is not listening well for sure, but vet told me that will not be a problem as he is living indoor. Sometime there is some inbalance on his movement, but nothing major. Vet told me that this may go away soon.
I will continue to give meloxicam 0,66ml / 24h for 5 more day. Marbofloxacin antibiotic 1ml / 24h for 10 more days. Hopride gut mobility 1ml /12h for 3 more days.
Vet told me to schedule the surgery in about a month. There is high possibility both ears will need the surgery but not in the same time. The price for this operation is 150euros. Im very relieved as its aprice i can afford.
Hope he will be getting better day by day.
Anyone has any experience with this surgery?

Pleased to hear that he is doing OK after his ear canal flushing. I hope that he will be feeling more comfortable now. Depending on the weight of Frodo your Vet can prescribe a higher dose of Meloxicam should the current dose not provide adequate analgesic cover. Also, Rabbits metabolise Meloxicam at a much faster rate than other species. Here in the UK many Rabbit Savvy Vets prefer to prescribe 12 hourly dosing, staying within the safe dose range, in order to insure a consistent 24 hour analgesic cover. You might want to discuss this with your Vet.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24471756/

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-health/medical/drug-focus-meloxicam/



Whilst none of my own Rabbits have had any invasive ear surgery I know of a few Rabbits who have had it done. All had both ears done in separate operations

It is essential that the Vet carrying out the procedure is very Rabbit Savvy, it sounds as though your Vet is. It is a very invasive procedure and I expect that your Vet has fully explained the risks v benefits. One risk is damage to facial nerves which will leave permanent facial droop/paralysis. This happened in a couple of the cases I am aware of. Also, if it is a resection that is being done then sometimes it can need to be done a second time. Again this was the case for one of the Rabbits I know.

The choice of antibiotic treatment is best based on the results of MC+S testing of swabs taken from tissue within the ear canals. The pus itself is often sterile and can give false results. Identifying the exact bacteria involved and what antibiotics the bacteria is sensitive to is important. Whilst enrofloxacin is a good broad spectrum antibiotic it is not always the correct choice when treating otitis. Another type of antibiotic is often needed, either alongside enrofloxacin or instead of it.

Given the invasive nature of the surgery good post operative pain relief is really essential. Usually Meloxicam alone is not sufficient even at the highest dose. Additional types of analgesia are, IME, always needed.

To avoid secondary gut stasis prokinetic drugs are likely to be required in the early post operative stage. Probably syringe feeding too. The Rabbit might be unwilling to eat for themselves for 2-3 days, so you will need to be prepared for 24/7 nursing care.

I hope that when Frodo has his surgeries he will do well and that his recovery will be a rapid as possible with no complications. The fact that your Vet sounds to have a lot of experience in doing the surgery on Rabbits is excellent and it will give Frodo the best chance

 

[Omi]

I'm pleased that Froddo is back home and doing well You must be very relieved. I'm glad also that you have had a useful chat with your vet, who sounds excellent by the way. It's good that the price of the operation would be manageable for you and it will mean that your decision can be based on your discussions with your vet and research that you are able to conduct yourself.

It might be helpful to type Lateral Ear Resection into the search box on the top right of this page. In that way you can read about the experiences of other forum members with this operation.

 

[Froddotherabbit]

Thanks for the useful information.
I asked about complications on the surgery and vet told me that she never had one and she is doing this operation very often.
Today is still eating hay and fresh greens. Though he doesnt want his pellet food ( i tried 3 different).
I guess he is ok with hay, fresh greens and some snacks for a few days.

 

[InspectorMorse]

Thanks for the useful information.
I asked about complications on the surgery and vet told me that she never had one and she is doing this operation very often.
Today is still eating hay and fresh greens. Though he doesnt want his pellet food ( i tried 3 different).
I guess he is ok with hay, fresh greens and some snacks for a few days.

It is not at all unusual for a Rabbit with ear pain to only want to eat softer foods. You could try soaking his pellet ration in boiled water to soften them. Although not all Rabbits like this. As long as he is eating hay and some veg I wouldn’t worry too much about the pellets for now. Just keep an eye on his poo output to make sure he has output.

 

[Froddotherabbit]

*Update*
Froddo is still eating hay and fresh greens, not always with the same appetite. It come and goes through the day. But in afternoon he usually eat a lot of hay. He still refuse to even taste pellets. Should i buy another brand? I already have three different. Anyone know a pellet food that most rabbits like?
Its strange because he doesn't seem to be in pain. When he is out of the cage, he roam around he even jumped on a pillow i use it to stop him going behind the tv.
I tried to give force feeding with some luck. Today morning i managed to give him 3ml and yesterday night another 3. But its not easy. I tried while i hold him, but its nearly impossible. And the way i had some luck is when i hold him still in the corner of the cage.

 

[Omi]

Thanks for the update. It sounds as though Froddo is improving. If it were me I would not experiment with a different brand of pellets as I suspect it's the hardness of them rather than the taste. especially as you already have a choice of three. I presume you have tried soaking them and then offering them on a plate?

I have always had the most success with giving meds or syringe-feeding by putting the rabbit facing away from me, on the floor in between my legs whilst kneeling. I have always found it difficult whilst also trying to hold the rabbit.

I don't think I would worry too much about pellets, but you could also weigh Froddo every few days to make sure he is not losing weight.

Sending him loads more vibes.

 

[Shimmer]

Pellets are not essential. It's far more important that a rabbit eats hay / grass. Poo output is usually a good indicator of food intake and easier to monitor.

Have you tred moistening the pellets to make them easier to eat? It's a different chewing action to hay, so hard pellets may be causing more pain on chewing. Supreme Science Selective pellets are not as hard as some other brands, but you would need to allow a changeover period and introduce them slowly.

 

[InspectorMorse]

Thanks for the update. It sounds as though Froddo is improving. If it were me I would not experiment with a different brand of pellets as I suspect it's the hardness of them rather than the taste. especially as you already have a choice of three. I presume you have tried soaking them and then offering them on a plate?

I have always had the most success with giving meds or syringe-feeding by putting the rabbit facing away from me, on the floor in between my legs whilst kneeling. I have always found it difficult whilst also trying to hold the rabbit.

I don't think I would worry too much about pellets, but you could also weigh Froddo every few days to make sure he is not losing weight.

Sending him loads more vibes.

I agree with Omi’s advice. He might only get pain if he tries to crunch on hard food. Rather like it is for us if we have a sensitive tooth. It doesn’t hurt constantly but it sure does if you bite down on hard food.

Keep a check on his poo output too. It might be smaller than normal, but it’s important that he still passes a near normal quantity x

 

[Froddotherabbit]

I tried to soak the pellets but he is not interested at all. Its just strange that he want to chew dandelion roots or apple tree sticks that are really hard.
Today he ate his fresh greens in the morning but till now he has eaten little hay. i hope later today will eat more. There are poops. I change the toilet every day so i can monitor the quantity.
Its just very stressful to be all the time alert so to be sure he is eating the adequate quantity of hay through the day. So if he was eating some pellets i would be more calm.

 

[Froddotherabbit]

I hand fed him 15 oxbow pellets!!!
He didn't want, but when he tried the first, he was getting the rest from my hand!

 

[Shimmer]

Can you pick any fresh grass? Or fresh dandelion leaves? They are easier to eat than hay.

 

[Froddotherabbit]

Not sure where to search for these. For fresh grass all i can think is a product they sell that you water it and grass will grow.