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Bunny lost litter training and is thinner

katbun

Young Bun
Hi all, I'm new to the forum but not to rabbits, I've had my 2, Piper (female) and Joey (male) for nearly 8 years now! We've had our ups and downs but generally they've been very healthy. I left them with my parents (in France) when I went to Uni but a few weeks ago we brought them over to live with me in Yorkshire (that was a big journey for them!). They're adjusting to the new environment and the reduced space (they used to free roam in a big room but now they have an x-pen because I'm renting at the moment).

On to the problem - over the last 6 months, my parents were complaining that Joey was losing his litter training. I attributed that to 1) him getting older and 2) them not necessarily reinforcing litter training or removing the smell of urine from were he was weeing. Now that I have a closer eye on him I can see that he's drinking a lot more that he used to and weeing where ever he happens to be. He had some small matts on his bottom from the urine which is very unlike him as he's always been extremely clean. I've cleaned those as much as he'll tolerate so at least there's no moisture or dirt against his skin at all and I check the area multiple types a day. Thankfully no irritation or sore hocks!

He's also lost some weight - throughout his life he's been around 900g - 1kg but now he's 800g and seems thin - this was the most concerning to me. Piper has a huge appetite and we've had problems with her eating his food before (she would get fat). We usually separate them for pellet meals, but in the new house they are still very anxious when apart and Joey doesn't seem to want to eat without his friend. But if she's with him she'll gobble all her food then eat his when he wanders off from it.

In terms of food - they've eaten Versele-Laga Complete Cuni Adult pellets for most of their life but I'm moving them to Selective Naturals due to availability here and they are accepting it (phew!). Unlimited Timothy hay with some herbal forage to encourage them. Handful of veggies daily (kale is the favourite but also cabbage, rocket, spinach, carrot tops, and endives).

I'm trying too get an appointment with a new vet this week (if anyone has a good experience with one in York please let me know - I've just picked one based on reviews) but I've been reading a lot of scary stuff about problems with kidneys/liver/UTIs - what are the points I need to make sure the vet isn't missing? Questions I need to ask? Medications to avoid/encourage? It's hard to trust a new vet especially with a condition I'm not familiar with.

Also, he has chronic (for the past 3 or 4 years) sneezing and clear snot which we've had thoroughly tested over the years by specialists in France - now we just treat the symptoms with steam therapy. I feel like the new vet will blame that and not believe me in the order of events - should I just let them test it anyway? Joey really hates the swab up the nose...

Any suggestions/comments welcome, also recommendations of diet to help him gain some weight? Am I overreacting? He is eating/pooping/moving around and begging for treats, so fairly normal!
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(sorry this is probably longer than it needs to be, I'm thinking about all the things to tell the new vet about)
 
The symptoms you describe fit with *possible* renal problems. EC and arthritis might be involved too.
He definitely needs to be seen by a Vet ASAP, ie within the next 48 hours. I would expect the Vet to carry out a thorough examination and take bloods for a full blood work up and EC testing.

Have a look on here for Rabbit Savvy Vets

 
Thank you, I have an appointment booked for this evening, so he'll be examined soon. I've been suspecting he has a bit of arthritis as he's not as keen to jump around as he used to be. I figured that was just a part of getting older.
 
Do you think I should ask them to shave the remainder of the matts around his bottom to make the area easier to clean?
 
Yes and you’ll also need to be very mindful about flystrike

I'm very aware, they are always indoor bunnies and no flies in the house right now, but this is one of the reasons I'm checking him so often. He's been mostly dry since I cleaned him up though, I think the stream was getting caught on the matts.
 
Went to see the specialist vet this morning who seemed very informed and experienced with rabbits. They took blood for a full panel and EC testing (wow that's expensive!), so we should know more tomorrow... I've never had a bunny have blood drawn - is it normal that he's completely reserved and slightly limping on the leg they took from? He was so upset when I brought them back that the only thing he would take from me was a little bit of banana :(

I also asked for help getting his weight up so the vet gave me some EmerAid to supplement feed with. Has anyone ever used this? I'm going to try it later today when he's less stressed, but he's never been an easy syringe feeder. I was going to mix a little blueberry juice in if he doesn't like the taste
 
Went to see the specialist vet this morning who seemed very informed and experienced with rabbits. They took blood for a full panel and EC testing (wow that's expensive!), so we should know more tomorrow... I've never had a bunny have blood drawn - is it normal that he's completely reserved and slightly limping on the leg they took from? He was so upset when I brought them back that the only thing he would take from me was a little bit of banana :(

I also asked for help getting his weight up so the vet gave me some EmerAid to supplement feed with. Has anyone ever used this? I'm going to try it later today when he's less stressed, but he's never been an easy syringe feeder. I was going to mix a little blueberry juice in if he doesn't like the taste
His leg might feel sore/bruised, if he’s still limping tomorrow call the vet for advice.

I use Emeraid, both the critical care version and the sustain version. I have never had a Rabbit to refuse to accept syringe feeds. Some will lap it up from a dish.
 
This is the sustain version, I've used critical care before when Piper got an ear infection. Joey's pretty resistant to any intervention, he's too smart for his own good I think. Hoping he'll just lick it up 🤞
 
Pretty good news so far - no kidney or liver problems indicated by the blood test🎉
He seems to have a low level infection somewhere, and given the symptoms from the last few days we think it's a bad tooth, so he's going in for a dental and x-rays on Monday. Apparently excessive drinking is a symptom of toothache so that's good to know.

IDK if it's universal in the UK, but this process is a lot different from my previous vets in France. For Piper's past dentals she's only been in for the time of the procedure and waking up properly from the anaesthesia - it was on us to make sure she started eating at home. My new vet here is keeping them in all day (Piper gets to go in as emotional support to Joey). Also it's like 3x the price here. Not to complain about the new vet, he's been extremely reassuring and competent so far!

Also Joey loves the EmerAid sustain, and gets to have Metacam now that the kidneys are in the clear, so he's perked right up! Piper doesn't understand why Joey's getting all these tasty juices though, she wants some!
 
It is ‘best practice’ for a Rabbit to remain an inpatient after a GA until they are eating and pooping. It sounds as though your current Vet is very Rabbit Savvy. I assume that the EC result isn’t back yet? It would be good to know it before the GA as the vet might want to start Bunny on a course of Fenbendazole.
 
He does seem to really know his stuff and see a lot of rabbits, and I'm happy to pay more and go further for this kind of care. I'll admit it is actually quite reassuring to have a vet tell me something I don't know rather than the other way round for once!

The vet thinks the EC result will be back in a week. He thinks it's unlikely to be EC based on the symptoms though, and just ran that as a precaution. Do you know if EC would impact the risk of GA? I can ask him about it on Monday.
 
He does seem to really know his stuff and see a lot of rabbits, and I'm happy to pay more and go further for this kind of care. I'll admit it is actually quite reassuring to have a vet tell me something I don't know rather than the other way round for once!

The vet thinks the EC result will be back in a week. He thinks it's unlikely to be EC based on the symptoms though, and just ran that as a precaution. Do you know if EC would impact the risk of GA? I can ask him about it on Monday.
Not so much impact on the GA, but with EC any other physiological stress can trigger a flare up or exacerbate existing symptoms. A GA obviously puts a physiological stress on a Rabbit.
 
Took them in to the vet this morning so I have the pet at vet nerves today. The vet did another check up and heard a slightly irregular heartbeat, so at the same time as the head x-rays they're doing some body ones too, to check on the heart lungs and kidneys. Joey's already put on some weight though, so that's encouraging.
I really hope this can all be explained by a fixable dental issue and he comes home safe and sound. What will I do at work all day today, when I can't check my rabbit cam!!
 
Good news again! Joey came through his GA like a champ, got quite a few teeth filed that were hurting his tongue and cheeks, poor thing. Also an ulcer that wasn't near any problem teeth, and could have been contributing to the pain. Vet's puzzled about that one as there weren't any splinters in it, but apparently it was already healing so should be alright. Anyone heard of rabbits injuring themselves on apple/willow sticks? Mine love both so he had access to them. I'm always accidentally biting the inside of my mouth, could he have bit himself while chewing in an odd position to avoid pain maybe?

All of the x-rays were clear, even the skull ones were remarkably good for a dwarf bunny apparently. No sign of arthritis although the vet agrees there's something going on with his back legs having a bit of muscle atrophy. We'll see how he does on the painkillers post dental anyway. Also no explanation for this weird heartbeat thing, the heart and lungs looked perfect on the x-rays, and so did the bladder. I'm glad I paid more for the extra scans, there's nothing like peace of mind when it comes to our pets.

I feel like I haven't been breathing since I dropped them off, and the vets had a very busy day with emergencies coming in so they couldn't call to give an update and I had to call twice to find out if he'd come through alright. Not their fault, but I was convinced they were waiting for the vet to be available to give me bad news. Honestly the stress these bunnies put on us probably takes years off our own lives (but I'm sure nose boops adds some too)

Now to explain to my boss why no work has been done today, and to my d&d group why I'll be phoning in from my living room floor:ROFLMAO:
 
The EC results have come back negative on current antibodies but very strong on old ones. The vet says this could be because a) Joey was exposed in the past and its gone b) he has it now and we tested at the wrong time. He says that the current symptoms don't match up with EC so he's not concerned about pursuing this, but we could do a urine test (which may also not be conclusive).

I've heard that most bunnies have been exposed to EC, I'm just wondering whether I should push for more testing on that or not be worried? The vet's been great so far so I'm inclined to trust him, but I want to make sure I'm advocating correctly for Joey.
 
I'm pleased Joey came through his dental so well 😍 what a brave boy. I think its perfectly possible he has hurt himself trying to chew with a sore mouth. Is the excess pee continuing post dental? I know some rabbits drink more when they need a dental (my bun stopped drinking altogether when she needed one though).

The EC thing is debatable. I once went to a lecture on EC & whereas I've forgotten practically everything said I do remember her talking through how difficult it is to get accurate info from EC tests & that the only really useful test info is provided by a negative result. My vets are actually very pro treating with panacur (I'm aware this isn't universal) & I reckon in Joey's situation they'd say treat anyway. So I wouldn't push for further tests but I might revisit the conversation about panacur
 
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