Bonding Pip to her new friend

[Mervinius]

He has not had much time with Pip and after many months of living alone it may just take more time for him to get used to living with another bunny.
Why is Pip not running away if he is on his side kicking her? Is she cornered?
Sending more vibes?

They were in the middle of the space, so both in the open. I didn't notice what Pip was doing as I was more focused on him. But she was either fighting back or just sitting. I think its more likely she was fighting back to be honest. She's not a timid bun. Thanks feeling confused this morning and like I'm out of my depth.

 

[Zoobec]

I think it’s good that they were settled both before and after the incident. I agree I don’t think it sounds like an actual fight more of a scuffle and the fact they were fine before and after is great. That might be the last scuffle they have.

 

[joey&boo]

I hope as Zoobec says, that scuffle sorted some stuff out. For bonding its probably an achievement ...but I know it doesn't feel that way

So as I understand it rabbits need to achieve 2 things to bond 1) trust 2) establishment of hierarchy. I am just musing here (hope its ok to do that on your thread) but do you reckon they need to trust first? From the countless bonding videos I've watched recently (I'm defo not very British in my approach to bonding, far too hands on) I'm really curious about why buns dont appear to fight in really small places. I'm wondering how Pip & Bumble would be in a really small space, like in a hay filled washing basket with your hand to direct & smoosh. That said, I still haven't worked out why they dont scarper from the basket

Don't be scared to ask the rescue for more advice - this is their area of expertise

From my video watching the UK seem very hands off compared to others

 

[Mervinius]

I hope as Zoobec says, that scuffle sorted some stuff out. For bonding its probably an achievement ...but I know it doesn't feel that way

So as I understand it rabbits need to achieve 2 things to bond 1) trust 2) establishment of hierarchy. I am just musing here (hope its ok to do that on your thread) but do you reckon they need to trust first? From the countless bonding videos I've watched recently (I'm defo not very British in my approach to bonding, far too hands on) I'm really curious about why buns dont appear to fight in really small places. I'm wondering how Pip & Bumble would be in a really small space, like in a hay filled washing basket with your hand to direct & smoosh. That said, I still haven't worked out why they dont scarper from the basket

Don't be scared to ask the rescue for more advice - this is their area of expertise

From my video watching the UK seem very hands off compared to others

Hi Both. Just got in from work and had a bit of an awkward day at work, so going to take a break from bonding tonight. Feeling very on edge and don't think it would be a good idea.

Yeah hopefully the scuffle was just that and it just looked worse to my human eyes. They both have been fine since. I'm just nervous that I'm going to ruin this whole process with my lack of experience.

Yeah I'm not sure which comes first but trust would make sense. I would say he 100% doesn't trust Pip. He's very trusting of us, unless we try to stroke him. He runs away though rather than being aggressive towards us. We got advised by the rescue to use a larger space. We did try their first meet in a small space and he was very very angry and constantly tried to fight. I wouldn't want to try that again. But I have seen others suggesting smaller space for bonding. Nethies are so full of energy, they don't do much sitting still, so maybe small spaces don't work for them as well?
I have messaged the rescue to see what they think but haven't had a reply yet. We are taking him for his first vet visit next week for a general MOT. I think he might have to lose a little weight, he seems way chunkier than Pip.

 

[joey&boo]

Hi Both. Just got in from work and had a bit of an awkward day at work, so going to take a break from bonding tonight. Feeling very on edge and don't think it would be a good idea.

Yeah hopefully the scuffle was just that and it just looked worse to my human eyes. They both have been fine since. I'm just nervous that I'm going to ruin this whole process with my lack of experience.

Yeah I'm not sure which comes first but trust would make sense. I would say he 100% doesn't trust Pip. He's very trusting of us, unless we try to stroke him. He runs away though rather than being aggressive towards us. We got advised by the rescue to use a larger space. We did try their first meet in a small space and he was very very angry and constantly tried to fight. I wouldn't want to try that again. But I have seen others suggesting smaller space for bonding. Nethies are so full of energy, they don't do much sitting still, so maybe small spaces don't work for them as well?
I have messaged the rescue to see what they think but haven't had a reply yet. We are taking him for his first vet visit next week for a general MOT. I think he might have to lose a little weight, he seems way chunkier than Pip.

Yeah I expect you're right, Nethies are a whole different kettle of fish. I imagine they'd far from fill a basket. I'd defo have some time off.

ha Ha - my little fatball is at the vets for his vaccs on wed. Really interested to get different vet opinion on his weight. He feels amazingly solid & I'm not sure to believe his protests its all muscle. Chinook looks bigger but weighs less

 

[Mervinius]

Yeah I expect you're right, Nethies are a whole different kettle of fish. I imagine they'd far from fill a basket. I'd defo have some time off.

ha Ha - my little fatball is at the vets for his vaccs on wed. Really interested to get different vet opinion on his weight. He feels amazingly solid & I'm not sure to believe his protests its all muscle. Chinook looks bigger but weighs less

Yeah they definitely wouldn't fill a basket, maybe a shoe box .

Awww Pip is having her Vac Wed too. How weird. Good luck with Eddy's weight. My partner tried to tell me Bumble is all muscle and fluff but I don't think that's true. He has a podgy tummy. Lol

 

[Zoobec]

Hi Both. Just got in from work and had a bit of an awkward day at work, so going to take a break from bonding tonight. Feeling very on edge and don't think it would be a good idea.

Yeah hopefully the scuffle was just that and it just looked worse to my human eyes. They both have been fine since. I'm just nervous that I'm going to ruin this whole process with my lack of experience.

Yeah I'm not sure which comes first but trust would make sense. I would say he 100% doesn't trust Pip. He's very trusting of us, unless we try to stroke him. He runs away though rather than being aggressive towards us. We got advised by the rescue to use a larger space. We did try their first meet in a small space and he was very very angry and constantly tried to fight. I wouldn't want to try that again. But I have seen others suggesting smaller space for bonding. Nethies are so full of energy, they don't do much sitting still, so maybe small spaces don't work for them as well?
I have messaged the rescue to see what they think but haven't had a reply yet. We are taking him for his first vet visit next week for a general MOT. I think he might have to lose a little weight, he seems way chunkier than Pip.

I think a day off is a good idea if you’ve had a tough day. I wouldn’t worry about lack of experience, I’m sure you are doing fine. The last bond I did when I had to grab the dustpan and put it between them, Frosty, the smaller of the two, the boy, had asked for a groom from Fern, his bigger new girl. The answer was definitely no to the groom and a scuffle ensued but that was the end of it and they never had a cross word between them after that. I think he just needed to know his place!

 

[Mervinius]

I think a day off is a good idea if you’ve had a tough day. I wouldn’t worry about lack of experience, I’m sure you are doing fine. The last bond I did when I had to grab the dustpan and put it between them, Frosty, the smaller of the two, the boy, had asked for a groom from Fern, his bigger new girl. The answer was definitely no to the groom and a scuffle ensued but that was the end of it and they never had a cross word between them after that. I think he just needed to know his place!

That's good to know. I know they were looking face to face just before the scuffle happened. So there was obviously some sort of body language I missed before the scuffle.
There's been no obvious asking for grooming yet. More looking at each other at the same level like a Mexican stand off. Lol then he goes for a nip, so they definitely haven't sorted out who's boss yet.
I'm sure they are just working things out like you say. Before this happened when they were both being good. They both had a short snooze about 1.5ft apart in a sitting up pose. Their noses stopped twitching so they were def resting but ready for action if needed. I sat there switching my eyes between them like watching a tennis match. Nothing happened though. So they must trust each other a little bit for that to happen.

 

[Mervinius]

I've just swapped litter trays and neither of them seem bothered. Both hopped in and carried on eating hay. No thumping etc

Then I gave Bumble one of Pip's blankets. Everyone I've given him before he's straight away chewed holes in it. So I stopped doing it worrying he was eating fabric. Tonight he started doing binkies on it and now he's sat cleaning himself on it. She has done a pee pee on it, so it 100% smells of her and she's been sat on it loads. He has given it a couple of nibbles after digging it, but it's more normal behaviour than anger at it being in his space. This has given me some hope that he does indeed like her. Not sure what doing binkies on a blanket that smells of Pip means. But it must be positive.
I'll remove it when we go to he'd so he can eat it whilst we are sleeping.
Just edited to add a picture. Sorry it's **** but look he's flopped on her orange blanket.

 

[bunny momma]

Bumble's lighter colored tummy is standing out in his photo and it does look like he just ate. He looks very relaxed on Pip's blanket!
You are doing fine with the bonding. I am sorry you had a rough day at work and agree it is best to take the night off to relax.
Sending vibes for you all.

 

[Mervinius]

Yeah where he stretches up into meerkat mode you can see his cute little tummy too. He was either flopped or sat on that blanket until we went to bed. Which has given me hope to carry on.
He does look rather stuffed doesn't he. Lol, in reality he'd only eaten some hay and 4 pellets.
I'm off to work now, but with have a bunny date when I get home.

 

[Pets mum]

I think that can only be a positive sign if he's sleeping on her blanket, paws crossed for date night

 

[Mervinius]

Well it didn't go well. Pip was just constantly hopping around trying to escape the space. She knows her room is just the other side. Because she was pacing and jumping lots it made Bumble reactive. So we gave up after 45mins because I couldn't get her to sit still or stop pacing like a rabid beast. Really disappointed and she's been getting worse at this behaviour. It wouldnt be such an issue if he wasn't so reactive. They had a couple of scuffles becuase she literally levitated into his personal space so he got spooked.
Not really sure what to do now. Has anyone had a bunny that acts like this in the bonding pen. She isn't interested in him much. She's not trying to get away becuase she's scared of him or anything. She just wants to be in her own space. Imagine a lion pacing and jumping along thr edge of a zoo pen. That's what Pip does.

The only other neutral space we have is a teeny bathroom that we have a bad mould problem that we are struggling to shift. So wouldn't want to put either of them in there.

My other option is to trial a bonding area in the lounge which is her territory. I know this isn't normal, but I feel like she is just super focused on leaving the bonding pen and not paying any attention to him. So maybe if she's more settled she will focus on him? Also she should be less jumpy and hopefully this would calm Bumble down.

They have both been living on the lounge together for weeks with him in a pen to one side. She spends alot of time sat next to the pen eating and sleeping. She has does a few pee pees along the edge of his pen. But other than that she hasn't been territorial that I'm aware of.

I dint want to risk ruining things by trying it, but I just wonder if becayse she's free reign we might have to try things a bit differently

 

[bunny momma]

Pip knows she will get her way and you will let her out if she fusses enough.
J&B mentioned putting her bunnies in each other's area. I hope you can find a way to make this work.

 

[tonibun]

I agree with Jane when she said she would need them to be together now, no wire between. I think he needs to chase Pip a little - I know you don't want to do that but I feel it's their way of settling things. The Rescue have also advised a bigger space so I would take a chance. I think Pip has had enough time now to adjust to having a new friend there.

 

[Mervinius]

Pip knows she will get her way and you will let her out if she fusses enough.
J&B mentioned putting her bunnies in each other's area. I hope you can find a way to make this work.

Yeah she does. She's always been in charge of us.

The rescue has agreed it's worth a try. So going to try it later. I'm thinking a pen in the lounge with a new blanket and me at the ready.
It will be in the middle of the room rather than in her castle corner. It will obviously still smell of her but hopefully she won't want to straight away defend it.

I've put his grass house in her castle corner this morning to see how she reacts. She hopped straight in and is sniffing it all over.
He also has a section of her castle which is is thoroughly investigating.
They have had littery tray swaps and blankets. But wanted to give a real test to see what they'd do with a stinky bun thing in their space.

 

[Mervinius]

I agree with Jane when she said she would need them to be together now, no wire between. I think he needs to chase Pip a little - I know you don't want to do that but I feel it's their way of settling things. The Rescue have also advised a bigger space so I would take a chance. I think Pip has had enough time now to adjust to having a new friend there.

Oh we haven't had a wire between in the bonding sessions. Only in their living space. Sorry if I've not explained it very well.
I dont mind chasing, just didn't like the lungey bite monster at her face.
I'll give it a go later and see what happens fingers crossed

 

[joey&boo]

You thinking of trying things in the lounge? Sorry if i read that wrong. When I've bonded bunnies they've usually started in a neutral space but in most cases I've got bored / not felt the vibe & moved bonding to the lounge. I'm honestly tempted to do it with my 2 at some point.

My first 2 rabbit bonds were love at first sight. So going forward a decade I moved the trio (Boo still minorly lungey) to the lounge after a week,
later bonded Rudey to Mouse in the lounge. quad bonding was in the lounge mainly & calmer there. Eddy & Boo started in kitchen, then to hall then to lounge. I had a bloody great big fence dividing up lounge in prep for quad bonding though

My first bad bond was Ralph & Kitty. I remember them being introduced in the back yard & them tornado-ing in clouds of fur. Can not remember a thing else...so annoying. I know there was barely any resources about bonding back then ....in some ways that helped

I know what you mean about being more comfortable if it was fur pulling from bums. Eddy tends to have a grumpy face & juts his head forward ...its like he does the chasing off thing but with his head.

 

[Mervinius]

You thinking of trying things in the lounge? Sorry if i read that wrong. When I've bonded bunnies they've usually started in a neutral space but in most cases I've got bored / not felt the vibe & moved bonding to the lounge. I'm honestly tempted to do it with my 2 at some point.

My first 2 rabbit bonds were love at first sight. So going forward a decade I moved the trio (Boo still minorly lungey) to the lounge after a week,
later bonded Rudey to Mouse in the lounge. quad bonding was in the lounge mainly & calmer there. Eddy & Boo started in kitchen, then to hall then to lounge. I had a bloody great big fence dividing up lounge in prep for quad bonding though

My first bad bond was Ralph & Kitty. I remember them being introduced in the back yard & them tornado-ing in clouds of fur. Can not remember a thing else...so annoying. I know there was barely any resources about bonding back then ....in some ways that helped

I know what you mean about being more comfortable if it was fur pulling from bums. Eddy tends to have a grumpy face & juts his head forward ...its like he does the chasing off thing but with his head.

Yeah thinking of trying a date in the lounge which is her main living space. She hasn't been aggressive to him at all in the lounge we only had 1 thump weeks ago. She spends most of her time sat next to his pen and their bowls are either side of his pen, so they eat together as well.
I'm hoping she will be calmer and therefore he won't want to react/lunge at her movements.

I'm nervous because for all I know she's going to decide she doesn't like him being in her space, but so far we've seen no signs of that. But obviously it might be different when they don't have a barrier.
We just feel the neutral kitchen space wasn't working. She just wanted out all the time and was bouncing off the walls. So she wasn't being her normal self and wasn't engaging with him. Was more interested in jumping on us and then launching herself out of the area. She was curious in the first few dates sniffing him, then she just pretty much ignored him and focused on escape. Lol.

Eddy does sound similar to Bumble. Bumble freezes when he sees her move. Sometimes he just sits there head forward. Other times he then lunges. So we have been trying to distract him when he freezes and stop Pip for jumping towards him. But she is surprisingly determined and spritely for an old bun

 

[Mervinius]

I've chickened out tonight. Still not feeling in the right mood and feeling generally overwhelmed. Will try and get in the right head space for tomorrow. Feel like I'm letting the buns down but in reality I can see they are more than happy just as they are munching away on a big pile of hay.