7 year old rehomed rabbit that's never had hay.

[hopthefrog]

I rehomed a 6ish year old giant continental rabbit a while ago and after sorting her health issues we are still struggling with hay eating. She had never eaten hay before joing us and it's almost like she doesn't realise it's food so will just chuck it out when pellets and other greens are mixed in with it. I am currently trying to get a friend for her from a rescue, but despite telling them that the vet said it's okay (As her poos are quite well and her diet is now on leafy greens rather than sweet things like carrots and raisins which she had before) and trying so many tricks and different hays I still feel like I am clearly trying wrong or not hard enough, but I don't want to starve her into eating it as she's not the healthiest or youngest to go through that. I just feel at a loss of what to do. Is she likely to eat hay if another rabbit is ? Is there a hay that never seems to fail? Any help would be brilliant, or even reassurance . (UK based)

 

[Shimmer]

It sounds like you are doing a brilliant job.
Any dietary changes shoud be done slowly, and leaving her nothing but hay isn't going to be a good option for her if she just won't eat it. Will she eat fresh grass? Otherwise, having a bunny companion may well show her that hay is yummy.

What sort of leafy greens is she on? Hay is a different chewing action to eg softer food or pellets. Will she eat fresh willow or apple twigs with leaves on, for instance? It's moving towards tougher fibre as a transition to hay, and both are readily available at the moment.

Rabbits can be very stubborn, so I commend your patience and determination. She's a lucky bunny.

 

[hopthefrog]

She will eat a like a single bite of grass/plantain etc a week ? But I think she also may not realise it's food and actually edible for her. She has a willow ball that she has no I treat in and honestly despite it being nice for my house she chews nothing. But I will try and find some fresh willow, she has liked damaging bramble bushes. She has a wide range of like celery, cavolo Nero, kale, fennel, some parsley spring greens and similar, I have given her some plantain and things before, but she just looks at me like I am mad . Thankfully the vets were and have been happy with her teeth!!

 

[Cinnabun14]

Aw, this is kind of sad. I'm glad you've feeding her properly, she's very fortunate to have found you.

Now, I don't know much about picky rabbits, but maybe you could try mixing her hay with her favorite greens. Maybe start off with a lot of greens to a little hay, then gradually increase the ratio until she's got a proper amount of hay. I also agree with Shimmer about how another rabbit will show her how to eat hay. Animals are the best teachers for other animals.

 

[tonibun]

I took on a similar Rabbit about 6 months ago. Wouldn't eat hay or grass but begged for food. He was indoors but when it got warmer I put him outside and I am noticing that he is eating hay now. He still expects twice as much food as all the others though. He is 5.5 and the previous owners thought he was female. I had him neutered and asked the Vet to check his teeth and they said his teeth were fine. Not sure I believe that. Good luck with your Bunny.

 

[Omi]

I agree with others, you are doing very well.

Do you have access to wild forage? Plants like Dandelions, Plantain, Herb Robert, Herb Bennet, Lemon Balm and many others. If so, I would try each one separately to begin with to test reaction. Once you find several that she likes, I would try giving a handful of forage and include several wild grasses.

As Shimmer said tree leaves are very beneficial as well. Rabbits can eat Hawthorn, Apple/Pear, Field Maple, Alder, Willow, Ash, Hazel.

How do you give her hay? Rabbits usually like to eat and poop in the same place, so putting hay in her litter tray might be successful.
Another rabbit would also probably help to show her how wonderful hay is.

 

[redmal]

I have just yesterday collected an unneutered 7 year old (estimated) rabbit who had never seen hay. He is the sweetest boy, but seems very fat to me,. The only thing he will eat is PaH nuggets. I have tried dandelion, plantain, fresh grass, and OH has tried clover. It seems like he will smell it and maybe chin it, but it's not for eating. He is passing reasonable poos, though a bit small, but every now and then he squirts out creamy yellow liquid. He seems bright and interested in his new home, investigating his new furniture, etc. but he has no idea of toilet places, which doesn't matter as I can just clean the whole floor each day, but isn't normal, is it?
I scatter hay around for my other rabbit and he gets a small handful of pellets (8) a day by hand. Is it still ok to scatter hay for this one? Is he better with hay in piles around the place as he has no idea of a toilet tray. Should we keep trying different forage, greens etc or concentrate on hay?
He has an appointment with the vet next Thursday for vaccs and checkup.

 

[Omi]

I agree that longer term you should attempt to modify the new bunny's diet. For the moment though I would just keep things more or less the same without too many changes, until after the vet appointment and vaccinations next Thursday. Best to find out first of all whether the vet thinks this is purely a diet issue with a rabbit who has never seen hay (how shocking by the way ), or whether there is a health issue. I would monitor his weight each week.

So for now, I would introduce small quantities of a small amount of foods other than pellets, including hay. Scattering the hay around is fine, although my bet is that he might consider each to be a place to use as a toilet. Although for now, that's not a big issue. I would do this mainly just to get him used to other types of food.

The vet will probably advise how to get him to lose weight and eat a better diet. I think you will probably need to reduce his pellets, so that basically he is hungry, before he will consider other foods to eat. And if he is overweight then a small amount of gradual weight loss won't be a bad thing.

So welcome new little bunny to your lovely new home Have you decided on a name yet?

 

[redmal]

Thank you, Omi, for your helpful reply. His name is Charlie and I think we will keep it, it suits him. We will continue with a few bits of forage and greens though he doesn't seem to know they are food. I think I have seen him eating caecos so hope his excess weight isn't stopping him from doing that. Suppose it's another food, to add to the pellets!

I tried an apple twig with lots of leaves, from our tree, but he still just chinned it and turned away. Still, at least he is coming to see what new thing we've brought him to investigate!

He is a white, red eyed lopeared bun, exactly the sort I thought I didn't want! but there we go, he's irresistible, and I couldn't just leave him there!

 

[Shimmer]

Sometimes it helps if they see other rabbits eating different things, although you would have to judge if that situation would be possible / practical at the moment. You are doing all the right things and it will come eventually. At the moment, he needs to settle in and get used to his new life. It's very early days. Sudden dietary changes are to be avoided, but leaving hay accessible is always a good idea.

Maybe try some bits of herbs or dandelion leaves if you have any - something that smells a bit stronger. No rush, though.

 

[bunny momma]

Sending lots of vibes that Charlie does well with his vet exam and vacs. Once he settles, you may want to try small amounts of different types of grass hay to see if Charlie will eat any of them.

 

[redmal]

Today I am happy! I cleaned Charlies shed and found NOT ONE squirty liquid poo! None at all! I am hoping it was just nerves at moving house!

I have tried/keep trying lemon balm, mint, dandelion, plantain, fresh grass. Come to think of it, I can't remember seeing any grass this morning. I will go and have another look. If there isn't any there I might be even more happy!

Thanks for the does well vibes, bunny momma. All gratefully received.

 

[Omi]

Fresh cut grass is normally irrestible to bunnies Fantastic also that there's no squirty poo this morning.

I was thinking last night while watching my two devouring some apple and hazel sticks. Sticks with leaves might be worth a try to leave in his accommodation. Bunnies will use their teeth to move them to where they want them and in doing that Charlie might find they are also tasty.

 

[redmal]

Well, Charlie is now eating with enthusiasm - instead of just sniffing, chinning and moving away when I give him something, he sniffs, nibbles and (usually) starts chomping. It's lovely to see. He even left his pellets yesterday to eat a bit of cauli floret. But he started with a wet eye on Saturday. I hoped it was a bit of dust or something but it's still there. No discharge as such, just wet fur around his left eye. I took him to the vet today who was really good, so thorough, she checked his teeth with an otoscope and found a small spur on a right molar (though the runny eye is the left one). She said she was reluctant to anaesthetise an elderly, frail rabbit unless essential so said his wet eye could be pasteurella and gave antibiotics and rheumocam for pain, because she said though his mouth looks undamaged, no cuts on his tongue or cheek from the spur, but in case she missed something.

Surprised to find out he has lost 2 grams, now he's 1.6kg, and he was 1.8kg last time. She said it's hard to know what to do if he's just "learning" to eat like a rabbit should, but maybe up the pellets he's still on a little bit and continue with the hay and greens.

I'm taking him back in 3 weeks to check again, but what do you think I should do about the veg I give him. Hay is always there (Timothy and meadow hay from Haybox), is there some veg that will help him put on weight and/or improve his teeth better than other veg?

 

[Omi]

Is he eating hay now? It's really only root vegetables like carrots, which are higher calorie. I personally wouldn't feed him those though as the sugar content might upset his digestion. Some forage is better for teeth, things like Plantain and Blackberry leaves. Also tree leaves are fibrous and so beneficial for teeth.

I would just monitor his weight regularly yourself as he has had quite a bit of adjustment to his diet recently. Didn't you also think he looked overweight? You could increase his pellets or you could maybe substitute some of them for Fibafirst, which is higher in fibre than most pellets and also has more calories. I thought I had the comparison of calories in Fibafirst and Science Selective pellets somewhere, but I'm sorry I can't find it.

 

[redmal]

Yes, I thought he looked a bit chubby, but I was wrong. He still doesn't eat hay when I've been looking, but he happily devoured an ENORMOUS cauliflower leaf this morning, after OH and I gave him his AB's and rheumocam. He took it like a trooper, I was so relieved. I expected him to be in a bit of a state after, but OH placed him on top of his hay pile and he just hopped gently out of the towel we wrapped him up in and started nosing into the hay. He might have eaten a bit, but I never know for sure. He fancied the cauli leaf more, I think!

I keep thinking that I top up his hay pile every morning and he has hay in a rack, which he sometimes sits in, he has hay inside his box (he sits on top of the box most of the day) and he seems to like to sleep inside there rather than his "hutch" which also has hay inside. I see Prince eating hay quite often, but not Charlie. I am worried but I keep thinking he has good poos, round and dry, with some hay bits in them, a clean bum which he cleans himself (!) and he is getting very fond of vegetables, though much fussier than Prince. So he must be eating some hay, the pile is going down slowly so it must be going somewhere?

Thank you for the reply, Omi and for the advice. I don't understand why hay is better for their teeth than forage, but better he eats veg and forage rather than pellets, I suppose.

 

[Shimmer]

Hay / grass has long, abrasive fibres which contribute to wearing a rabbit's teeth down properly. Coarser forage (such as plantain, and leaves & branches from bramble, willow, apple, etc) helps, but doesn't have quite the same sandpaper effect. Rabbits' teeth grow continually, so need to be kept worn down - which is why they are prone to dental issues if they don't have an appropriate diet. Their digestive system is also designed for a predominantly grass diet. Hay is just dried grass which makes for convenient storage for use all year, when grass isn't available.

If you've ever tried chewing a piece of grass, it isn't easy - and you end up with a mass of fibres. We are just not designed to eat it.

 

[redmal]

I see what you mean, Shimmer. As children do, I used to chew grass when thirsty because it brought saliva to my mouth. Country children did that in those days! But the grass never seemed to disappear at all!

 

[redmal]

Charlie was xrayed yesterday due to his reluctance (again) to eat hay. The vet has suspected from the start that he has serious trouble with his teeth and is in pain when he eats. His mouth is a disaster area. The vet phoned us when he was under anaesthetic to ask if we wanted her to euthanise him or to continue to burr what she could, in hope that he would have a few weeks of comfortable life.

We brought him home and he is remarkably happy to be back. He is still a bit sore, I think, though he is now on Rheumocam twice daily. he isn't eating, but they gave us Fibreplex which he has had this morning. I hope he starts to eat some greens, but he's not even trying his pellets now. how long can we expect to wait before his teeth are comfortable? Is there anything we can try to help him eat for the short time he has left?

Did we make the right decision when we chose to give him a few extra weeks? How will we know when he has had enough?

 

[Shimmer]

Dental bunnies cope quite well. There are different things you can try, such as grating or finely chopping veg into thin strips (carrots, apple, turnip, cabbage, lettuce, dandelion leaves, fresh grass, herbs, etc). Think of it as bunny coleslaw.

The powdered recovery food food (eg Critical Care) can be very useful as it is a complete food, or use his usual pellets soaked in warm water so they go into a mush. The consistency can be changed to suit him - so it can be quite thick in a heap if he can manage it, or more liquid to lap up or be syringe or spoon fed. Syringe feeds flow better with a bit of apple or carrot baby food puree mixed in. I reused the jars to make up the next batch.

Check his weight weekly to make sure he's eating enough to maintain his weight, and increase syringe feeds if needed. The aim is to keep him stable and eating - so the 'normal' diet list may need to be widened to include things not normally recommended (such as grated carrot and apple). It's more about quality of life and maintaining gut function - so experiment with what he likes and how he can eat. Shallow bowls or a saucer may be easier to access than a deeper bowl, for instance.

He may need further dentals, but it's impossible to predict the frequency. Gradual weight loss over a few weeks is an indicator that he needs assessing again. I've had rabbits go anything from 6 weeks to 6 months between dentals. I've also had one that was syringe fed for months. How much intervention they and you can deal with is a very individual thing - there are no right or wrong answers at this stage.

When will you know that he's had enough? In my experience, it is fairly obvious when the spark goes and they have no joy in life any more. There's also a risk with every anaesthetic. You can discuss an action plan with your vet, and also ask for a referral to a dental specialist if that's appropriate - you can do a writren referral for advice using current Xrays, etc, or go in person. You also need to look at the impact on your time and finances as it can be quite a stressful time. PTS is always an option if QoL can't be maintained for any reason. He's already a lucky bunny to be cared for so well.