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Help: Bunny fast breathing

I really don't want to take him to vets unless they could help him tonight. The nearest out of hours vet is miles away :( It would mean an hour train ride plus 20 min taxi either end aswell. I don't mind doing that for him but I don't think he would cope with the stress of it.

He is eating hay and pooping now although poos are small and shrunken. He is refusing to drink with bottle or water so we gave him a watered down feed of 20 mls slowly to keep his gut moving and keep him hydrated plus a little water aswell.

We are going to give him same again with his meds in an hour and then leave him for the night until early in morning so he can rest. I don't think he will do well if we don't syringe feed him something. He is acting very lethargic now.

Just wondering if 2ml Loxicom wiuld be beneficial to him tonight or just too dangerous on his stomach/kidneys as he is so frail. Just want him to be comfortable. I'm not sure if he will make it through the night if I'm honest.

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I am really really sorry to read the series of updates about Mischief. I am not sure what to really suggest at this point. On one hand, he has been through a lot recently and he may be just exhausted from the vetinary intervention plus the after effects of the possible opiate pain relief. But on the other hand, Jane's post recently I think highlights the concern that she and we all share and Jane is very rarely wrong on these matters.
I sense your gut feeling is to get vetinary intervention and you are placing Mischiefs needs as primary and given the way he is presenting, and the concerns you have, I think you do need to follow your instincts and seek urgent vetinary assistance and intervention. I am sorry I cannot offer you better advice but I hope that you can see a vet as soon as possible and get Mischief stabilised.
Hugs to you
Craig xx
 
I really don't want to take him to vets unless they could help him tonight. The nearest out of hours vet is miles away :( It would mean an hour train ride plus 20 min taxi either end aswell. I don't mind doing that for him but I don't think he would cope with the stress of it.

He is eating hay and pooping now although poos are small and shrunken. He is refusing to drink with bottle or water so we gave him a watered down feed of 20 mls slowly to keep his gut moving and keep him hydrated plus a little water aswell.

We are going to give him same again with his meds in an hour and then leave him for the night until early in morning so he can rest. I don't think he will do well if we don't syringe feed him something. He is acting very lethargic now.

Just wondering if 2ml Loxicom wiuld be beneficial to him tonight or just too dangerous on his stomach/kidneys as he is so frail. Just want him to be comfortable. I'm not sure if he will make it through the night if I'm honest.

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It does sound as though he is very poorly now. If he is eating a little for himself then personally I would not syringe feed him. If his stomach is not emptying into his intestines then syringe feeds will just create more gas build up and he’ll bloat up more.

I am obviously just giving an unqualified opinion, but I would give the 2mls of Loxicom if that is what the PDSA Vet had previously prescribed.

If he feels unusually cold to touch, especially his ears, then that is a sign that he really does need more treatment than can be given at home. Is a Taxi Cab an option to get to the Vet ? You know you can PM me about arrangements for that. If you do decide not to take him then I would just give him his meds, leave his food close by and provide him with a heat pad of some sort if you have one.

I so hope he can pull through x
 
Can't believe the change around! We were just discussing whether to put him through the journey to the vets as Mischuef had been lying with us unresponsive to everything we did and refusing any food plus breathing seemed very faint.

Then suddenly he jumped up and ran to litter tray and did loads of healthy poops! Then he frantically started eating herbs then munching hay in huge mouthfuls. We just sat there gobsmacked!! Then he hopped about the room for a bit and chewed a few toys and stuff.

Not sure if was the syringe feed or infacol maybe? But he just got a lease of life. We can't believe it. We really thought we were losing him!!

He has started to settle down now. Still eating hay but looking very tired. So I guess we will leave vets for tonight unless things change. This is such an emotional roller coaster ride!!

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It does sound as though he is very poorly now. If he is eating a little for himself then personally I would not syringe feed him. If his stomach is not emptying into his intestines then syringe feeds will just create more gas build up and he’ll bloat up more.

I am obviously just giving an unqualified opinion, but I would give the 2mls of Loxicom if that is what the PDSA Vet had previously prescribed.

If he feels unusually cold to touch, especially his ears, then that is a sign that he really does need more treatment than can be given at home. Is a Taxi Cab an option to get to the Vet ? You know you can PM me about arrangements for that. If you do decide not to take him then I would just give him his meds, leave his food close by and provide him with a heat pad of some sort if you have one.

I so hope he can pull through x
Thank you we will obviously bear that in mind. We have not ruled vets out but for now we are going to monitor him.

His ears are warm and he is actively eating hay at moment. He as eaten quite a lot now actually. But he refuses any nuggets, other greens except herbs and will not drink water at all. Not from bowl or bottle. We may just have to syringe feed him that.

I think we will give him 2 mls of Loxicom just so he has a peaceful night and maybe even helps with his pain enough to drink by himself.

And he only did a binky just now!! It's totally unreal. I am gobsmacked!!!



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Oh something I forgot entirely! PDSA said they noticed spikes on his teeth! But when the other exotic vets did the X-ray the vet apparently filed cheek teeth down. Could spikes grow enough to cause him an issue in just a week?
It would explain the sudden loss of appetite and everything but just seems so soon. Unless the vet didn't do a great job of filing them down?

Really finding this all so difficult. It will be so frustrating if it's his teeth after we asked to have them filed down.

Really not sure how to move forward from here now! [emoji53] He is definitely off of most of his food except hay which he is eating pretty often.

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welcome to the roller coaster emotional trip of 'world of bunnies'. As I said previously, Jane once posted that rabbits have a natural default setting of 'complicated'. And you are in the front seat right now.
I'm sitting here frantically following this thread and you're putting me through the wringer here so I know how your emotions must be right now with this.
You continue to show amazing vigilance with Mischief - you are keeping one step ahead with him and that gives you an amazing advantage and you are able to quickly intercept and take appropriate action at critical junctions. Mischief is very very lucky to have you there as his guardian angel.
It's only my opinion on his behaviour in the previous post but I would suggest that the effects of the probable opiate pain relief have worn off and what you are witnessing is Mischief now returning to his usual self as the effects of the drug subside. The pain meds are effective - if this is indeed the result of that, and it could be that Mischief has metabolised the meds and his systems are now resetting back to normal. But this is just my unprofessional assessment based on how you say he is presenting.
You also have an advantage because you are keen to observe his body language and doing all you can to aid us on the forum - especially Jane, with observations on his ears etc. If Mischief is presenting as comfortable - as in how he is sitting - is he shuffling about, being restless? Does he respond when you apprach him to have strokes?
Giving him Hay, parsley and mint isn't necessarily a bad thing for tonight - hay will be good for his digestive system, parsley is full of vitamins and mint does have medicinal qualities which Mischief instictively knows. But he also knows you are there supporting him. Fluids I would still be concerned about - the hay should make him thirsty so I would offer him syringe water but perhaps not force it. From what you posted previously it would seem that Mischief reacts when he gets stressed and speaking from someone who has a bunny who does react when stressed, I would advocate a gently gently approach - he trusts you to be his support but that can quickly be lost if you then create an ambience of mistrust. You could wet the parsley - give it a gentle soak under the tap so that it retains some moisture and from that Mischief will then at least be getting some fluid - albeit from small quantities on the surface of herbs.
Spend as much time as possible tonight with him - I know that is going to be a late one, but that will make Mischief comfortable and relaxed that you are there with him. If he remains stable, then you have done all you can for the time being, get yourself some sleep and assess the situation in the morning. I appreciate it's saturday but if you do need to contact the vets, then you have a clean day to do it, not a bank holiday day, but as it's a weekend then there would be additional rates for that.
I am pleased that the update was much more positive, but be mindful that rabbits hide illness very well and you take nothing for granted. Take the change in him as a positive, embrace that and continue being as thoroughly vigilant as you are and Mischief will have the very best chance possible of recovery.
Craig xx
 
Craig's right, it's certainly a rollercoaster with bunnies! I'm really pleased he's perked up again. It sounds like his gut had slowed down but he's feeling better now that he's passed some poo.

It's good that he's eating hay and herbs. The combination will be good for his digestive system so I wouldn't be too worried that he's not interested in other foods like pellets. He should also be getting hydration from the fresh herbs.

It's hard to know whether his teeth are causing him problems again. Personally, my inclination is that pain from his ear infections is the more likely culprit. I remember that pain from ear abscesses caused one of my previous buns to go into stasis.
 
How's Mischief doing this morning, I really hope he had a good night, and you too of course, hope you got some sleep xx
 
Hi everyone

Sorry for late post back. I'm afraid due to my own health issues we are struggling today as it's taking its toll on me. We overslept this morning due to no sleep for 2 days plus very very little sleep for the last month. Everything is a lot slower as I can't move too easily so please bear with us [emoji6]

So this morning Mischief seems good actually. He has eaten a fair amount of hay and a handful of herbs we left in cage. We put him in his extra large cage last night so he was near food/water all night.

We can't tell if he drank water as my partner had already taken bottle out and re-filled it so can't check level. He seems full of life and running about interested in toys though and very pleased to see us and he ate some herbs and a little hay for breakfast.

Unfortunately when rang vets this morning they were close to finishing their surgery for the day and we could not get him booked in. Rang out of hours and they would charge us £185 just to see him!! Plus cost again for the long trips. So we asked for a call back to review situation.

Vet said to keep syringe feeding him gently every 4-6 hours to keep gut moving as he is eating less than usual and to also offer him water. And to keep to 1ml of Loxicom as our original vet told us this. But that from sounds of it we could leave vet visit until tomorrow with the view that we bring him down if anything changes.

He has had 20mls of syringe feed (Excel and banana) which he was happy to eat and 5 ml water. He kept spitting water out after first 2mls though. I presume he would drink it if he was thirsty. He had 2 mls Loxicom and antibiotics. We gave him 2mls Loxicom before spoke to out of hours vets as gave him 2mls last night and he had eaten well through the night and seemed brighter. He was very feisty and got in a pickle after that and had to give up syringe feeding him any more. He is definitely a lot stronger today! [emoji23][emoji23]

We are much happier with things today. Yesterday he was so weak and he seemed like he was giving up. I don't know if I read that wrong or maybe he was just exhausted like us. However we have all had a good nights rest so must be a good thing for Mischief.

Alfafa and probiotics have not arrived. Phil is going to local pet store to buy a huge sack of alfafa and some junior Excel. We thinking we need to get protein in him as much as poss and can't wait any longer. Thought maybe he will eat the junior Excel from the bowl if kittens like it. Perhaps it's more appealing? Well it's worth a try plus if not it has a higher protein content if we syringe feed it

He is under bed having his daily sleep. Will update you again later. Thank you for posts this morning [emoji4][emoji173]



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I am glad that he seems to be doing better today, but sorry to hear that you continue to struggle with poor health yourself. I can sure empathise with that.

I hope his Lordship will eat the Excel Junior for himself, that would take a lot of the stress from all of you.

As for the Out of hours Vet consultation fee.....:shock::shock:
 
I am glad that he seems to be doing better today, but sorry to hear that you continue to struggle with poor health yourself. I can sure empathise with that.

I hope his Lordship will eat the Excel Junior for himself, that would take a lot of the stress from all of you.

As for the Out of hours Vet consultation fee.....:shock::shock:
Yes we even tried porridge oats yesterday in the end but not a sausage. He could just be getting fed up though!

We have decided to syringe feed him every 4-6 hours depending on how he seems/what he took last syringe feed/whether he eats for himself at all. We left it 12 hours before and he went downhill again. So we need to presume he is not eating enough on his own.

We do wonder if it is mouth or teeth related. Perhaps where he bit the many syringes yesterday perhaps? But he is eating hay still and a little herbs/spring greens. It could still be his ears though as they are very sore and inflamed still. Think the main thing is to keep him energised and food in his tummy until get to vets and have him checked over. We need vet to check his tummy aswell and make sure he is getting enough food/fluids or he may need IV treatment.

Yes we were shocked aswell! At £30 + £8 Sunday extra charge we feel he can wait until tomorrow instead. Would rather spend money on getting him better not just extortionate vet consulation charges!! xx

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Yes we even tried porridge oats yesterday in the end but not a sausage. He could just be getting fed up though!

We have decided to syringe feed him every 4-6 hours depending on how he seems/what he took last syringe feed/whether he eats for himself at all. We left it 12 hours before and he went downhill again. So we need to presume he is not eating enough on his own.

We do wonder if it is mouth or teeth related. Perhaps where he bit the many syringes yesterday perhaps? But he is eating hay still and a little herbs/spring greens. It could still be his ears though as they are very sore and inflamed still. Think the main thing is to keep him energised and food in his tummy until get to vets and have him checked over. We need vet to check his tummy aswell and make sure he is getting enough food/fluids or he may need IV treatment.

Yes we were shocked aswell! At £30 + £8 Sunday extra charge we feel he can wait until tomorrow instead. Would rather spend money on getting him better not just extortionate vet consulation charges!! xx

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The only time Inspector Morse stopped eating hard food was when his chronic ear disease was really painful. He continued to eat hay in preference to anything else x
 
Also forgot to say he has loads of normal poos in his litter tray this morning!!

And he is eating again. Maybe the stress of yesterday was making him withdraw from food. He could probably sense our worry.

At one point he was lying with us looking so frail I started to get upset. It's hard to hide it when you think you are losing them.

But next minute he will hopping about and eating. As they can't talk to us we have to second guess them. He was probably just relaxed enjoying his cuddles and I totally misread the signs due to my own heightened anxiety. I would rather that than him deteriorating rapidly and we miss the signs until it's too late!

By the way he is under the bed snoring away at the moment! Away with the fairies. Love him so much! [emoji23] [emoji178]

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The only time Inspector Morse stopped eating hard food was when his chronic ear disease was really painful. He continued to eat hay in preference to anything else x
Oh just like Mr Chief then! He does love his food so it is so weird him refusing stuff he normally loves. He is unlike any other bunny I've known. He will stand on my lap with feet on my chest and wrestle me to try and get his treats. He is normally a machine!! [emoji23][emoji23]

We are taking a step right back today and not trying to coax him to eat. We thought maybe the pressure and stress was getting to him yesterday so we are psyching him out. We are also using your mirror idea to see under the bed [emoji23] [emoji173]

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Thank you for the update abd I am really sorry to hear that you are struggling due to your own health issues. Sometimes we place so much effort into other things that we neglect for a moment, our own well-being. However, it also shows the selflessness that you have towards your own needs by putting Mischiefs first. Bravo. But you must take some time to yourself and make yourself better.
Glad to read that mischief has perked up and seems to be turning a corner. All positive signs. I think your hunch about his teeth may be spot on - they can create a multitude of related issues.
As for your vet quote for consultation - I’ve just had to throw a bucket of ice cold water over myself at that. You could probably get a personal appointment with Noel Fitzpatrick for that sort of coin. But don’t tell Jane - she’d be jealous. Hanging back til tomorrow when Mischief is presenting as comfortable today is good practice.
Sending you massive hugs and hope you feel better soon and topping up the vibes for mischief. Xx
 
Also forgot to say he has loads of normal poos in his litter tray this morning!!

And he is eating again. Maybe the stress of yesterday was making him withdraw from food. He could probably sense our worry.

At one point he was lying with us looking so frail I started to get upset. It's hard to hide it when you think you are losing them.

But next minute he will hopping about and eating. As they can't talk to us we have to second guess them. He was probably just relaxed enjoying his cuddles and I totally misread the signs due to my own heightened anxiety. I would rather that than him deteriorating rapidly and we miss the signs until it's too late!

By the way he is under the bed snoring away at the moment! Away with the fairies. Love him so much! [emoji23] [emoji178]

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:love: :love:
 
welcome to the roller coaster emotional trip of 'world of bunnies'. As I said previously, Jane once posted that rabbits have a natural default setting of 'complicated'. And you are in the front seat right now.
I'm sitting here frantically following this thread and you're putting me through the wringer here so I know how your emotions must be right now with this.
You continue to show amazing vigilance with Mischief - you are keeping one step ahead with him and that gives you an amazing advantage and you are able to quickly intercept and take appropriate action at critical junctions. Mischief is very very lucky to have you there as his guardian angel.
It's only my opinion on his behaviour in the previous post but I would suggest that the effects of the probable opiate pain relief have worn off and what you are witnessing is Mischief now returning to his usual self as the effects of the drug subside. The pain meds are effective - if this is indeed the result of that, and it could be that Mischief has metabolised the meds and his systems are now resetting back to normal. But this is just my unprofessional assessment based on how you say he is presenting.
You also have an advantage because you are keen to observe his body language and doing all you can to aid us on the forum - especially Jane, with observations on his ears etc. If Mischief is presenting as comfortable - as in how he is sitting - is he shuffling about, being restless? Does he respond when you apprach him to have strokes?
Giving him Hay, parsley and mint isn't necessarily a bad thing for tonight - hay will be good for his digestive system, parsley is full of vitamins and mint does have medicinal qualities which Mischief instictively knows. But he also knows you are there supporting him. Fluids I would still be concerned about - the hay should make him thirsty so I would offer him syringe water but perhaps not force it. From what you posted previously it would seem that Mischief reacts when he gets stressed and speaking from someone who has a bunny who does react when stressed, I would advocate a gently gently approach - he trusts you to be his support but that can quickly be lost if you then create an ambience of mistrust. You could wet the parsley - give it a gentle soak under the tap so that it retains some moisture and from that Mischief will then at least be getting some fluid - albeit from small quantities on the surface of herbs.
Spend as much time as possible tonight with him - I know that is going to be a late one, but that will make Mischief comfortable and relaxed that you are there with him. If he remains stable, then you have done all you can for the time being, get yourself some sleep and assess the situation in the morning. I appreciate it's saturday but if you do need to contact the vets, then you have a clean day to do it, not a bank holiday day, but as it's a weekend then there would be additional rates for that.
I am pleased that the update was much more positive, but be mindful that rabbits hide illness very well and you take nothing for granted. Take the change in him as a positive, embrace that and continue being as thoroughly vigilant as you are and Mischief will have the very best chance possible of recovery.
Craig xx
Sorry I did not reply to this lovely message last night. I was so shattered. I tried to but couldn't concentrate.

Yes you are so right. We are constantly trying to understand what they are saying to us. And being bunnies they try to hide their illness which makes it much harder. Do you act on the side of caution and syringe feed them every 2 hours/rush them to vets/panic if they suddenly go quiet?? And then it ends up they are just trying to get some zzzzs and you keep hassling and force feeding them and they want to be left alones!!...

But we know they need food every few hours to survive so it has to be done. Until we know how to treat him and make him well again we have to keep him hydrated and fed so he is strong enough to get treatment when it can be sorted out.

I am not a vet so I can't check his vitals. But it's better to syringe feed him regularly than he have G.I. stasis. He went downhill very rapidly when we left him for a while. Much as we do not want to stress him out he is very thin now. If you can imagine a baby rabbit with no fat or muscle on him but a giant size. Then that is Mischief. He has no fat reserve now. And the vets said he has lost a lot of weight since his last visit just a week ago. He has lost around 0.4 kg in just over a week!!

I love that you called me a guardian angel. And I do feel like that. Yesterday I was telling him he had to fight. I was telling him we would help him but he had to work with us. I was crying as it is so upsetting to see him looking like a tiny frail thing when he is usually so strong and fast and feisty by nature. I was also talking to him and stroking him. Maybe he could feel the love? I don't know. But he must know we love him. I'm sure he knows we are trying to help him.

But he was lying there so quiet. We could hardly hear him breathe. And he did not react to any noise. And treats. We even tried him with a tiny bit of biscuit to see if he would react. He just sniffed it and turned his head away. He used to try and steal a whole packet of biscuits and try and hide under the bed!! We thought we were losing him.

But then he just jumped up and ran to his litter tray to poop. Then started frantically eating like there was no tomorrow. Maybe he understood what I was saying? It's not the first time I have felt he totally got what I was saying.

We have a special connection. I can ask him to do something and he just does it. We have a trick where I regularly ask him to take his treat off the bed so I can move position as I struggle to move sometimes, being as I'm a little disabled. I just say 'take it' and he jumps off the bed with treat in his mouth. My partner Phil just laughs and looks in wonder at it.

It's as if we just know what the other one is thinking. It's so hard to explain but it's an amazing experience. He is very intelligent and astute. He seems to understand you and he makes it very clear what he is thinking. You are in no doubt when he tells you something.

I do think you are right about the opiate painkiller. He did wake up eventually but was more sluggish all yesterday I also think he was very weak from lack of food and needs us to keep his syringe feeding regularly until he eats properly for himself. I think we just left it too long on Thursday.

It's all looking much better now. I just gave him a grape and 3 junior Excel pellets. We have left him under the bed surrounded by hay (alfafa, readigrass, timothy hay mixed with dry pumpkin and usual good quality long yellow hay), junior Excel and wet veggies.

We have a strategically-placed mirror so we can see him while sitting on bed chilling out ourselves and he is constantly munching on something good. As it is all healthy protein rich foods I can only see that as brilliant news!

I do believe he could feel our stress being that he is so sensitive anyway. Phil did hassle him a little even though I tried to explain he was getting grumpy. He even growled at Phil and pounced at him. Phil was adamant he was playing as he was pouncing like a puppy and caused a bit of a tiff between us! [emoji23][emoji23]

We will try offering him water. He has never been a big drinker though. He sometimes only drinks 20-30 mls in a day. But we always rinse veg under tap so presume he gets enough fluid that way.

To be honest, as he is now eating hay, grapes and a few pellets now we have given him 2mls of Loxicom last night and this morning I think it is probably his ears hurting. And the stress yesterday did not help matters.

I don't feel happy dropping Loxicom back down to 1ml twice a day if he is not eating. I'm thinking of trying to reduce it down slowly and see if he manages to eat. Say down to 1.7mls and if he still eats try down to 1.5 mls? See if can bring it down a bit at least. Bearing in mind Loxicom will help with inflammation as well as acting as a pain relief. I presume it's similar to Ibuprofen?

The inflammation in base of his ears could be putting pressure on his head and jaw aswell and so cause more pain plus there is the soreness from ulcers and actual nerve pain. I suffer from nerve pain in my face and get excrutiating pain in my ears/teeth aswell. I certainly don't want to eat then either!! There is nothing worse than face/ear/teeth pain imo. So finding the right level of painkiller is definitely key to his survival without jepardising his stomach/kidneys. Do you think my idea of dropping the dose slowly would be a wise move?

As he is looking so bright now (he has jumped on the bed for some attention and started nibbling my paperwork!! ) I'm starting to think a phonecall to vets in morning would be best move...see what they say. If he is eating again maybe discuss painkiller levels and just wait for the results from ear swabs. If they want to see him we can still take him tomorrow then.

Thank you for your helpful, inspiring words last night. Sometimes it helps so much just to hear you are doing the right thing by your bunny and re-evaluate once you have had rest yourself [emoji3]




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So pleased to read your latest updates, but sorry that you are struggling health wise. Mischief does sound as though he is doing better, eating hay and pooping have got to be good signs. He is in very safe hands with you, but look after yourself too xx
 
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