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Help: Bunny fast breathing

Thank you for the links [emoji4]

He is eating the Tescos own nuggets which we usually just use for a treat as he loves them (only 4-5 nuggets a day) but have started feeding him around 15g per day as he was not eating his other nuggets, Excel. He is probably eating 5g of Excel per day at most.

He was on Allen and Paige growth pellets but we recently weaned him on to Excel as he was getting porky. We only changed him over a month ago (just before he became ill) so thought best to wait until his tummy settles down before changing yet again.

His tummy seems fuller and presume that's the Readigrass which we are mixing with his 'yellow' horse hay which we get fresh from pet shop.

I'm going to order Timothy and Alfafa hay online as can't get it local. Plus probiotic. And think will see how he gets on with that. If he continues to leave his Excel I will try him on another feed...we are wondering if he won't eat Excel now as we were syringe feeding it mixed with banana? Maybe he associates the smell with stress of syringe feeds? It's only been since then that he refuses it.

I read about feeding porridge oats. Again I think will give him a few days before try that or a growth pellet. It has only been a week so don't want to upset his tummy too much. Perhaps the junior Excel would be a better choice to try as he has just moved over to Excel anyway? I don't know if they are similar?

We are ringing vets in morning anyway. His breathing was a bit fast earlier tonight again (around 110 bpm) but it settled down to 52 bpm an hour after his meds so think it could have been pain induced. We gave him 1ml of Loxicom with his antibiotics. Thinking maybe is ears hurt again.

Vet was happy enough to leave seeing him and see how he gets on as his breathing is much improved and we didn't want to stress him with journey to vets so soon. Think his ears need looking at again so will book him again for check up [emoji6]

As always you have been very helpful and have given me some useful reading info. Thank you [emoji175]

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I agree with you about the dietary changes, hopefully as he gets on top of the infection his weight will stabilise . He may well associate the Excel pellets with the syringe feeds. If he is happy to eat the Tesco’s brand then I’d stick with that for now. The crude fibre content in them is the same as that in the Excel Junior, but the Excel Junior does have 3% higher protein content. See how he gets on with the Readigrass and Alfalfa hay, he may not need anything more added.

Re his ears, have you had a feel around the ear bases to see if there are any lumps which could indicate an abscess ? Hopefully not, just something to rule out.
 
I agree with what Jane has put. For the hay, if you are ordering on line, most companies will send samples, so you can see which he likes best. Haybox is the current favourite Timothy hay here.
 
Thanks for your replies [emoji6]

So unfortunately I had to rush Mischief down to vets again this evening. I had to coax him to eat last night so didn't sleep much.

This morning he ate about 20g of pellets plus some veggies/hay so I was really pleased and so left him to sleep today (as he likes to sleep under bed). However he wasn't back out by 3pm ish so encouraged him out and put him in cage to monitor him. His poops were bit small plus left caecals in tray. Wasn't eating at all. Tried feeding him everything and no joy so felt his tum and was swollen. So rang PDSA and took him down.

He has ulcerations in base of his ears poor thing [emoji54] Plus breathing is still a bit fast. His gut was really quiet aswell.

So they have taken swabs of his ears and sent them off. Unfortunately we have to wait 2 weeks for results. They have given him frusol injection for fluid around lungs again when I asked about it (thanks to Jane's advice!), an injection to stimulate the gut and a painkiller injection.

And told us to syringe feed him every 2 hours until he eats on his own and then gradually reduce the amount of feeds. But to feed him every 12 hours at least for next 2-4 days until he is definitely eating well as he has lost a lot of weight

I mentioned penicillin injections and she said it's whether they are practical at moment (I presume with Covid) They also said about us needing to consider that he has quality of life [emoji22]

I'm feeling really down and worried about him as he is just lying in his litter tray not moving. He had his injections 3 hours ago. Could any of them cause this does anyone know? I thought perhaps he had a stronger painkiller? I don't know which one they gave him.

We syringe fed him and he was very sleepy but still alert enough to scrabble on the bed and stress a bit. He ate his syringe feeds with hardly any argument again though. I think he was really hungry!! Such a poppet. His ears probably hurt him too much to chew food.

Wondered if anyone knows if it's normal for bunnies to be like this after painkiller injections please?

It's going to be another long night but needs must. I'm already so so tired so getting Proplus now to keep awake. Hopefully Mr Chief will pick up a bit later...please could everyone send him some positive vibes? Think he needs them tonight xx

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twistedtiggerz69 said:
Thanks for your replies [emoji6]

So unfortunately I had to rush Mischief down to vets again this evening. I had to coax him to eat last night so didn't sleep much.

This morning he ate about 20g of pellets plus some veggies/hay so I was really pleased and so left him to sleep today (as he likes to sleep under bed). However he wasn't back out by 3pm ish so encouraged him out and put him in cage to monitor him. His poops were bit small plus left caecals in tray. Wasn't eating at all. Tried feeding him everything and no joy so felt his tum and was swollen. So rang PDSA and took him down.

He has ulcerations in base of his ears poor thing [emoji54] Plus breathing is still a bit fast. His gut was really quiet aswell.

So they have taken swabs of his ears and sent them off. Unfortunately we have to wait 2 weeks for results. They have given him frusol injection for fluid around lungs again when I asked about it (thanks to Jane's advice!), an injection to stimulate the gut and a painkiller injection.

And told us to syringe feed him every 2 hours until he eats on his own and then gradually reduce the amount of feeds. But to feed him every 12 hours at least for next 2-4 days until he is definitely eating well as he has lost a lot of weight

I mentioned penicillin injections and she said it's whether they are practical at moment (I presume with Covid) They also said about us needing to consider that he has quality of life [emoji22]

I'm feeling really down and worried about him as he is just lying in his litter tray not moving. He had his injections 3 hours ago. Could any of them cause this does anyone know? I thought perhaps he had a stronger painkiller? I don't know which one they gave him.

We syringe fed him and he was very sleepy but still alert enough to scrabble on the bed and stress a bit. He ate his syringe feeds with hardly any argument again though. I think he was really hungry!! Such a poppet. His ears probably hurt him too much to chew food.

Wondered if anyone knows if it's normal for bunnies to be like this after painkiller injections please?

It's going to be another long night but needs must. I'm already so so tired so getting Proplus now to keep awake. Hopefully Mr Chief will pick up a bit later...please could everyone send him some positive vibes? Think he needs them tonight xx

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to read your update about Mischief. Have you got the details of what he was given? Certainly stronger painkillers will cause them to be more drowsy. Sending him lots of vibes.

Sorry I've just re-read your post and you don't know the details :(
 
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First of all - massive massive hugs to you. We don't post to get credit for what we do, but others can tell and we know what efforts we all go to to help our rabbits, and just how stressfull and worrying it can be when they are poorly. For my part, I have to say that you are doing beyond incredible and I absolutely applaud your full on effort and mmore importantly, the invisble and special bond you share with Mischief because you again identified a change in his body language and acted immediately. Whilst you might sit there and say to yourself "well, that's just the normal thing to do", believe me, many many pet owners do not. Hence many many pets suffer and endure poor treatment - something Mischief certainly isn't getting. Many of us all know how challenging it is with bunnies - Jane recently posted that rabbits come with a default setting of 'complicated' - and I am sure you will relate to that. I've been through the grinder with a couple of my bunnies so I know exactly the feeling you have. You have my utmost respect. Mischief would thank you if he could, but know that deep down in his heart, he does know. They feel the love, the care and the support. And whilst they can't vocalise that, they do feel what you give them.
Now, moving onto the injection issue - you mentioned a painkilling injection and Mischief just lying there. This rings familiar to me and from what you describe, it might possibly have been an opiate based injection. Now, I would need the expertese of Jane to help me out here as she knows all there to know about opiate based injections. My bridge bun Henry had one about a year ago and it freaked me out because it completely knocked him out. It wasn't until afterwards that I discovered that it was an opiate based painkiller.
My present bunny Lillian also has had 2 of these injections recently and on both occasions it zonked her right out. It is scary because they just go completely lethargic and lie there. The injections lasted quite some time but they do serve a purpose and whilst scary, are done with the best intent. That said, it would be helpful if the vets tell us when they administer them so that we are then forearmed with the information to understand the behaviour when we then get home. The painkiller will wear off - but it doesn't help you from worrying and stressing about it. Your are NOT alone. I for one, certainly know how you feel, observing this and worrying and not being able to ring the vet. But this is where the forums strength is and hopefully at least you can see the support you have and that based on what you say, we can at least offer some reassurance that Mischief is presenting as far as I know, as being given an opiate based injection. FYI, they can also do an oral one on his gums - that's a very similar result. So I would say based on your observations, that Mischief is sort of dealing with a sort of drug induced high but his pain will be controlled by the injection.
Fluids and food as best you can is what I can offer by way of advice. Critical care via syringe or mashed pellet, treats and water. Fluids will help flush out the painkiller but it's best to let it run it's course. Spend the evening or night with him - be there so he knows he's not alone. He will sense you and smell you and that will give him much comfort and help. His ears will be painful I'm sure and perhaps the vet can prescribe a softer painkiller like metacam or something similar that can at least help him manage the pain until the results come back. There's plenty in the vets armoury to help with gut stimulation and pain management so it's important to keep asking, keep challenging them and pressing for what you believe for Mischief. You are his voice, his advocate and you know him better than anyone.
Sending Mischief loads of vibes and hope he has a comfortable night. And huge hugs for you. It is a journey and it is sometimes bumpy but with support you and Mischief will get there. xx
 
Omi said:
I'm sorry to read your update about Mischief. Have you got the details of what he was given? Certainly stronger painkillers will cause them to be more drowsy. Sending him lots of vibes.

Sorry I've just re-read your post and you don't know the details :(
Click to expand...
Sorry have no idea what they gave him. He is really lethargic, just sitting in his litter tray hardly moving and turning his nose up at food including parsley, his fave.

We just keeping him warm and syringe feeding him food/water in the hope he will improve.

Wishing everyone a happy new year. Sorry news is a bit of a downer [emoji173]

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
 
Craig 1965 said:
First of all - massive massive hugs to you. We don't post to get credit for what we do, but others can tell and we know what efforts we all go to to help our rabbits, and just how stressfull and worrying it can be when they are poorly. For my part, I have to say that you are doing beyond incredible and I absolutely applaud your full on effort and mmore importantly, the invisble and special bond you share with Mischief because you again identified a change in his body language and acted immediately. Whilst you might sit there and say to yourself "well, that's just the normal thing to do", believe me, many many pet owners do not. Hence many many pets suffer and endure poor treatment - something Mischief certainly isn't getting. Many of us all know how challenging it is with bunnies - Jane recently posted that rabbits come with a default setting of 'complicated' - and I am sure you will relate to that. I've been through the grinder with a couple of my bunnies so I know exactly the feeling you have. You have my utmost respect. Mischief would thank you if he could, but know that deep down in his heart, he does know. They feel the love, the care and the support. And whilst they can't vocalise that, they do feel what you give them.
Now, moving onto the injection issue - you mentioned a painkilling injection and Mischief just lying there. This rings familiar to me and from what you describe, it might possibly have been an opiate based injection. Now, I would need the expertese of Jane to help me out here as she knows all there to know about opiate based injections. My bridge bun Henry had one about a year ago and it freaked me out because it completely knocked him out. It wasn't until afterwards that I discovered that it was an opiate based painkiller.
My present bunny Lillian also has had 2 of these injections recently and on both occasions it zonked her right out. It is scary because they just go completely lethargic and lie there. The injections lasted quite some time but they do serve a purpose and whilst scary, are done with the best intent. That said, it would be helpful if the vets tell us when they administer them so that we are then forearmed with the information to understand the behaviour when we then get home. The painkiller will wear off - but it doesn't help you from worrying and stressing about it. Your are NOT alone. I for one, certainly know how you feel, observing this and worrying and not being able to ring the vet. But this is where the forums strength is and hopefully at least you can see the support you have and that based on what you say, we can at least offer some reassurance that Mischief is presenting as far as I know, as being given an opiate based injection. FYI, they can also do an oral one on his gums - that's a very similar result. So I would say based on your observations, that Mischief is sort of dealing with a sort of drug induced high but his pain will be controlled by the injection.
Fluids and food as best you can is what I can offer by way of advice. Critical care via syringe or mashed pellet, treats and water. Fluids will help flush out the painkiller but it's best to let it run it's course. Spend the evening or night with him - be there so he knows he's not alone. He will sense you and smell you and that will give him much comfort and help. His ears will be painful I'm sure and perhaps the vet can prescribe a softer painkiller like metacam or something similar that can at least help him manage the pain until the results come back. There's plenty in the vets armoury to help with gut stimulation and pain management so it's important to keep asking, keep challenging them and pressing for what you believe for Mischief. You are his voice, his advocate and you know him better than anyone.
Sending Mischief loads of vibes and hope he has a comfortable night. And huge hugs for you. It is a journey and it is sometimes bumpy but with support you and Mischief will get there. xx
Click to expand...
All I can say is thank you as you have reassured us that we are doing what we can for him and that he is probably not suffering due to the injection. It is so scary but if I knew it was the opiate then I would understand. I'm on opiods myself and know how morphine zonks you out but as painkillers they do their job. I was worried he was suffering and so am rather relieved tbh.

We have metacam although I'm not sure he is being prescribed enough at 1ml every 12 hours. At least it is better than nothing. I will check with my vets in morning as hopefully the injection will help him through the night.

We will carry on with feeds and water by syringe. He is rather pathetic at moment bless him. He just eats everything without any argument. I just want our feisty powerhouse bunny back!

You have a way with words that gives comfort at a time like this. It really helps so much to be able to chat to like minded bunny 'addicts' who speak with love for these sweet little creatures. I'm so grateful I joined RU and got to speak to some of you. Has helped me so much and therefore helped Mr Chief [emoji178]


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Sending vibes for you. You're doing the absolute best you can and you must be so exhausted.

Re the metacam it does sound like a low dose for his size but it may be more for its anti inflammatory effects rather than pain if he's also been given opioids.

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I'm really sorry to read that Mischief has had a setback 😔 I suspect, as Craig has suggested, that the vet may have given him vetergesic, which is an opiate drug for pain relief. It can really zonk bunnies out which may explain why he's so lethargic. With my bunnies I've found it can take between 24 and 36 hours for them to return to normal, although some bunnies can metabolise it more quickly. I really wish vets would warn people about this drug as the effects can be really alarming if you don't know to expect them!

Sending more vibes for Mischief xx
 
I have only just seen the latest update, I am very sorry that he has had a set back. His poor ears must be very sore. As mentioned by others if the Vet gave Buprenorphine (Vetergesic/Buprecare) as an additional analgesic this can cause marked sedation. In most Rabbits this should resolve in 8-12 hours.

The bacteria involved with ear infections is often pseudomonas aeruginosa

How is he doing now ?
 
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Thank you for the vibes everyone!We are feeling the love trust me [emoji173]

So Mr Chief has woken up a bit and has come out of his litter tray and now lying in his cage. He has nibbled on a small amount of hay and took 45ml of syringe feed and 20ml water last time. He is due another feed soon. He has eaten a little kale but otherwise no other interest in feeding or drinking by himself.

His poops are good size (almost normal now) and his litter tray is very wet but I presume the dieuretic would cause that. I presume it takes a while for the stomach to start moving again and him to show interest in food again. Not sure what to expect really as not done this before. How long does it take for bunnies to want to eat again usually? Could the painkiller injection cause a lack of interest in food aswell? I know morphine does that to me and gives me nausea aswell.

We will keep going on as we are. He is snuggled in bed with us at moment. I don't see his breathing being an issue. We only notice it gets faster when he is due meds (Loxicom and Sulfatrim) so think it may be pain from his ears. When he went to vets last night he was due meds again so I am hoping it was pain and not his lungs causing fast breathing.

Will keep you updated. Much love to all xx

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twistedtiggerz69 said:
Thank you for the vibes everyone!We are feeling the love trust me [emoji173]

So Mr Chief has woken up a bit and has come out of his litter tray and now lying in his cage. He has nibbled on a small amount of hay and took 45ml of syringe feed and 20ml water last time. He is due another feed soon. He has eaten a little kale but otherwise no other interest in feeding or drinking by himself.

His poops are good size (almost normal now) and his litter tray is very wet but I presume the dieuretic would cause that. I presume it takes a while for the stomach to start moving again and him to show interest in food again. Not sure what to expect really as not done this before. How long does it take for bunnies to want to eat again usually? Could the painkiller injection cause a lack of interest in food aswell? I know morphine does that to me and gives me nausea aswell.

We will keep going on as we are. He is snuggled in bed with us at moment. I don't see his breathing being an issue. We only notice it gets faster when he is due meds (Loxicom and Sulfatrim) so think it may be pain from his ears. When he went to vets last night he was due meds again so I am hoping it was pain and not his lungs causing fast breathing.

Will keep you updated. Much love to all xx

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Click to expand...

It sounds as though the fast breathing before meds and at the Vets is due to stress.

Opiates can cause inappetence in some Rabbits

It can take a couple of days of ongoing treatment with gut motility meds and supportive feeds to get the GI tract moving again. Did the Vet give you some Metoclopramide (gut motility med) to continue to administer at home ? This is usually necessary in cases of gut stasis. It is good that his poo output has improved, hopefully this will continue as long as he has enough input x
 
InspectorMorse said:
It sounds as though the fast breathing before meds and at the Vets is due to stress.

Opiates can cause inappetence in some Rabbits

It can take a couple of days of ongoing treatment with gut motility meds and supportive feeds to get the GI tract moving again. Did the Vet give you some Metoclopramide (gut motility med) to continue to administer at home ? This is usually necessary in cases of gut stasis. It is good that his poo output has improved, hopefully this will continue as long as he has enough input x
Click to expand...
Oh yes could be stress. Vet said it was fast but at home it is usually around 52-70bpm now unless meds are due and then goes up to around 110.

No did not give us any Metoclopramide which would have been handy seeing as it is bank holidays and out of hours vets is an hour train ride away! I don't get why they didn't tbh.

We are monitoring him closely though and now decided to take it in turns getting sleep while other one stays near him so can occasionally try him with other food/water but as yet no joy.

Saying that he is now nibbling hay when awake. We are leaving him in his cage surrounded by loads of it to tempt him [emoji23] Otherwise he sneaks under our bed and is difficult to see what he is eating etc. We let him out regularly and he then hops about exploring and chewing toys so much more alert although still sleepy [emoji6]

Hopefully his gut will get better but I'm concerned about his ears. I will read up on the ear condition you mentioned Jane thank you xx

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twistedtiggerz69 said:
Oh yes could be stress. Vet said it was fast but at home it is usually around 52-70bpm now unless meds are due and then goes up to around 110.

No did not give us any Metoclopramide which would have been handy seeing as it is bank holidays and out of hours vets is an hour train ride away! I don't get why they didn't tbh.


We are monitoring him closely though and now decided to take it in turns getting sleep while other one stays near him so can occasionally try him with other food/water but as yet no joy.

Saying that he is now nibbling hay when awake. We are leaving him in his cage surrounded by loads of it to tempt him [emoji23] Otherwise he sneaks under our bed and is difficult to see what he is eating etc. We let him out regularly and he then hops about exploring and chewing toys so much more alert although still sleepy [emoji6]

Hopefully his gut will get better but I'm concerned about his ears. I will read up on the ear condition you mentioned Jane thank you xx

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Click to expand...

If the ear swab does show Pseudomonas then the oral antibiotic he is on should help, it may need a very long course though, several weeks.
 
Just read your latest posts, and sorry that Mischief has had a bit of a setback. Sending a million vibes for your boy, as I've said before, he is very lucky to be in your care xx
 
InspectorMorse said:
If the ear swab does show Pseudomonas then the oral antibiotic he is on should help, it may need a very long course though, several weeks.
Click to expand...
Hopefully he is on the right treatment already then and just have to persevere. I've not really experienced stasis in my bunnies before although knew what to look out for. I think I relaxed a bit and let him sleep too long under our bed as he usually does in the day. We will watch his food intake really closely from now on.

Hopefully he will start to improve his eating/drinking soon. He is eating hay and just noticed him eating his caecals so that's good news.

We haven't received alfafa or probiotics yet as bank holiday so hopefully they will both help with his tummy/keeping weight on when they arrive. He is skin and bone under his fur now. Being a long haired bunny it's a shock when you stroke him as he's really bony now [emoji22]

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Thank you for everyone's lovely posts. You have all been so kind and supportive especially as I am new to RU xx

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