Too many pellets

[a reader of books]

I'm really struggling with getting the right balance for Sophie and Casper's diet. I've figured out the right amount of pellets now that keeps their weight stable (30g for the both of them, though Sophie gets most of it), and they're very happy with all the pellets, but I'm not very happy at all, because they're eating way, way less hay and greens now. 30g for the both of them doesn't even seem like that much considering the bag recommends 25g per kg bunny, but apparently it makes them feel very full. They ate way more in general when their diet was mostly hay and greens. Does anyone have any ideas on how I can keep their weight stable, but can feed them fewer pellets? I know things like readigrass are higher in calories than regular hay, but they don't like it. I've tried oats, too, but it's not enough to keep Sophie's weight on. Would junior pellets be a good idea? There's more calories in them, so I'd have to give them fewer pellets, but I'm not sure if it would actually change anything since they'd still be getting most of their calories from pellets, so they might just feel equally full from those?

 

[a reader of books]

Oh, I forgot to mention, Casper's been leaving caecotrophs around, too, which he always does when he gets too many pellets, so that's not good, either...

 

[Shimmer]

Are they actually underweight or losing weight they don't need to on their current diet?
I would be tempted to just tough it out for a couple of weeks and see how it goes. If they normally eat hay anyway, they should increase their hay intake if they are hungry. Weigh them weekly and keep an eye on their poo outut as well.

 

[joey&boo]

I've had this issue before & to extent I have it with Boo. I wish I knew of a solution. She is a great hay eater so atm she remains skinny but her digestive system seems ok

 

[dollyanna]

I've been feeding whole black sunflower seeds to Odin to help keep his weight on, the shells are soft and have a lot of fibre so balance out the oils in the seeds. They haven't affected his stomach at all, I started with a teaspoon (for a 5.5kg rabbit that should be 6.4kg with the lost muscle) and he's up to about a tablespoon a day now with no adverse affects.

 

[bunny momma]

I think the issue is pellets do not require the same chewing motion as hay and greens, so their teeth may not wear as well.. They also do not add moisture to their digestive tract which can be an issue with a stasis prone bunny lime my Raven.

Young bunny pellets are usually alfalfa based, which can cause more excess cecals. I also hear alfalfa has more calcium.
That being said, I have tried alfalfa in addition to hay to add calories. Make changes slowly.

Excess cecals are messy, yet unless there are a lot of them, or they contain a lot of mucus or are accompanied by bloat, I do not worry. Older bunnies also have issues eating them as they emerge so they may be more visible.

I wish Raven ate more pellets yet he hardly touches them. I give him a few Selective Natural loop treats and a syringe feed daily to keep him from losing weight.

Ultimately it is a balancing act.

I am interested in your results. .

 

[a reader of books]

Thank you for your replies, everyone. I really appreciate them.

Are they actually underweight or losing weight they don't need to on their current diet?
I would be tempted to just tough it out for a couple of weeks and see how it goes. If they normally eat hay anyway, they should increase their hay intake if they are hungry. Weigh them weekly and keep an eye on their poo outut as well.

They're not underweight right now, but the vet said that if they lose any more weight they will be. That's why we switched to pellets, because they weren't eating enough of their Urinary Health sticks and were losing weight. I do weigh them weekly, but their poo doesn't look great, to be honest. But, yeah, I'll see how it goes. Maybe once they get used to it, they'll go back to eating more hay.

I've had this issue before & to extent I have it with Boo. I wish I knew of a solution. She is a great hay eater so atm she remains skinny but her digestive system seems ok

I'm sorry you have a bit of the same issue with Boo and that she's skinny. It's good that she's a great hay eater, at least, and that her digestive system seems to be okay. Casper and Sophie have never been good hay eaters, no matter what I've tried over the years. They just don't seem to find it very appealing. They'd actually started eating more hay recently, but now they're barely eating any.

 

[a reader of books]

I've been feeding whole black sunflower seeds to Odin to help keep his weight on, the shells are soft and have a lot of fibre so balance out the oils in the seeds. They haven't affected his stomach at all, I started with a teaspoon (for a 5.5kg rabbit that should be 6.4kg with the lost muscle) and he's up to about a tablespoon a day now with no adverse affects.

Ooh, that's really interesting. Do you feel like it's helping with Odin's weight? I do have a bag of black sunflower seeds for the birds outside. It's good to know they haven't affected his stomach. I think I'll try one and see how Sophie reacts, since she's the one who needs the most help with her weight. She'll obviously need a lot fewer seeds than Odin does!

I think the issue is pellets do not require the same chewing motion as hay and greens, so their teeth may not wear as well.. They also do not add moisture to their digestive tract which can be an issue with a stasis prone bunny lime my Raven.

Young bunny pellets are usually alfalfa based, which can cause more excess cecals. I also hear alfalfa has more calcium.
That being said, I have tried alfalfa in addition to hay to add calories. Make changes slowly.

Excess cecals are messy, yet unless there are a lot of them, or they contain a lot of mucus or are accompanied by bloat, I do not worry. Older bunnies also have issues eating them as they emerge so they may be more visible.

I wish Raven ate more pellets yet he hardly touches them. I give him a few Selective Natural loop treats and a syringe feed daily to keep him from losing weight.

Ultimately it is a balancing act.

I am interested in your results. .

Ah, you're so right about their teeth. I hadn't even thought of that yet. Both the adult and junior Science Selective pellets are alfalfa based, but the junior ones do have a bit more calcium in them, which does worry me, especially combined with the lack of moisture in the pellets that you mention. It's not great for their bladder health.

That's good to know that you usually don't worry about excess caecotrophs. I never see more than one a day, so it's not many. Casper normally doesn't have trouble reaching them, though. It really only happens when he gets too much dry food.

I'm sorry Raven doesn't eat enough pellets. That would be easier than syringe feeding him daily, I bet... I'm sure he doesn't mind the treats, though!

I've ordered a bag of junior pellets today, and I'm hoping that since they have more protein in them, I'll have to give them fewer pellets so they might not feel so full... I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[joey&boo]

Ooh, that's really interesting. Do you feel like it's helping with Odin's weight? I do have a bag of black sunflower seeds for the birds outside. It's good to know they haven't affected his stomach. I think I'll try one and see how Sophie reacts, since she's the one who needs the most help with her weight. She'll obviously need a lot fewer seeds than Odin does!


Ah, you're so right about their teeth. I hadn't even thought of that yet. Both the adult and junior Science Selective pellets are alfalfa based, but the junior ones do have a bit more calcium in them, which does worry me, especially combined with the lack of moisture in the pellets that you mention. It's not great for their bladder health.

That's good to know that you usually don't worry about excess caecotrophs. I never see more than one a day, so it's not many. Casper normally doesn't have trouble reaching them, though. It really only happens when he gets too much dry food.

I'm sorry Raven doesn't eat enough pellets. That would be easier than syringe feeding him daily, I bet... I'm sure he doesn't mind the treats, though!

I've ordered a bag of junior pellets today, and I'm hoping that since they have more protein in them, I'll have to give them fewer pellets so they might not feel so full... I'll let you know how it goes.

I hope the sunflower seeds &/or the junior pellets do the trick. Please can you update how it goes - if its successful I'll try on boo

 

[a reader of books]

I hope the sunflower seeds &/or the junior pellets do the trick. Please can you update how it goes - if its successful I'll try on boo

Thank you! I'll update!

 

[dollyanna]

Ooh, that's really interesting. Do you feel like it's helping with Odin's weight? I do have a bag of black sunflower seeds for the birds outside. It's good to know they haven't affected his stomach. I think I'll try one and see how Sophie reacts, since she's the one who needs the most help with her weight. She'll obviously need a lot fewer seeds than Odin does!

Difficult to say, until this week I'd have said yes cos his eight has been stable the past few months and that's really the biggest change, this week he's lost 200g (he's currently 5.3kg to put that in perspective, maximum weight has been 6.9kg when fit and young) and I'm hoping it's as a result of his ear issue putting him off eating so well, just hoping we can get it back up for him. I was thinking about your post earlier though, and meant to say one of the reasons I went this route instead of pellets (aside from the fact ours are forage fed and I've read too much about mixing pellets and brassicas which are the bulk of their winter fresh feed) is that pellets have always been too quick to turn his gut. The sunflower seeds have had zero negative effect whatsoever, and he really loves them.

 

[keletkezes]

Also following with interest as Chibbs and Barrie weighed in at just under 2kg yesterday and they should be just over 2kg. No real issues yet but if things don't improve on their usual winter pellet ration (I may have been too stingy recently XD), we may have to look for alternatives too. Chibbs is now 9, we assume Barrie's around the same age.

 

[a reader of books]

Difficult to say, until this week I'd have said yes cos his eight has been stable the past few months and that's really the biggest change, this week he's lost 200g (he's currently 5.3kg to put that in perspective, maximum weight has been 6.9kg when fit and young) and I'm hoping it's as a result of his ear issue putting him off eating so well, just hoping we can get it back up for him. I was thinking about your post earlier though, and meant to say one of the reasons I went this route instead of pellets (aside from the fact ours are forage fed and I've read too much about mixing pellets and brassicas which are the bulk of their winter fresh feed) is that pellets have always been too quick to turn his gut. The sunflower seeds have had zero negative effect whatsoever, and he really loves them.

Ah, that would make sense if his weight loss is because he didn't eat as well because his ear issue was bothering him. I hope he's eating better now his ear mites are gone, and that you can get him to gain his weight back. It sounds like until now the sunflower seeds might have been working well, though? I'll give it a try. I understand why you chose them over pellets for him if his gut can't handle pellets well. I'm glad the sunflower seeds give him no problems at all. I've read bad things about combining pellets and brassicas, too, which is another reason I'm not so pleased with them needing so many pellets now, as they do eat quite a lot of it; it's their favourite type of greens.

Also following with interest as Chibbs and Barrie weighed in at just under 2kg yesterday and they should be just over 2kg. No real issues yet but if things don't improve on their usual winter pellet ration (I may have been too stingy recently XD), we may have to look for alternatives too. Chibbs is now 9, we assume Barrie's around the same age.

Aw, I'm sorry they've both lost a bit of weight. Sound like you might need to be less stingy? I hope that's all it is, and that they'll return to their healthy weights once they get their usual winter pellet ration. I'm finding it a bit difficult to keep these older bunnies at a good weight!

 

[a reader of books]

I've been trying the sunflower seeds these past few days, but Sophie doesn't want them, so I guess that's not going to work!

I did ask the vets about it and they had the idea to mix it up and have pellet days and hay days, so to have a day where they get a lot of pellets, and then the next day they get fewer pellets so they'll eat more hay. So, I'll try that.

Edit: I've switched to junior pellets, too, but so far it hasn't really seemed to make a difference.

 

[joey&boo]

I've been trying the sunflower seeds these past few days, but Sophie doesn't want them, so I guess that's not going to work!

I did ask the vets about it and they had the idea to mix it up and have pellet days and hay days, so to have a day where they get a lot of pellets, and then the next day they get fewer pellets so they'll eat more hay. So, I'll try that.

Edit: I've switched to junior pellets, too, but so far it hasn't really seemed to make a difference.

do you think you'll go with the vets suggestion about hay and pellet days? Boo is nearly at the end of a bag of junior nuggets , I've not seen any impact either. TBH i'm far from methodical ...i couldn't guess how many grams she has daily, eddy would make it impossible to monitor anyway

 

[a reader of books]

do you think you'll go with the vets suggestion about hay and pellet days? Boo is nearly at the end of a bag of junior nuggets , I've not seen any impact either. TBH i'm far from methodical ...i couldn't guess how many grams she has daily, eddy would make it impossible to monitor anyway

Yes, I think so. That way they'll at least eat a decent amount of hay half of the time. That's disappointing that you've not seen a difference with the junior pellets for Boo, either. I guess they're not really more helpful than regular pellets, then, since we've both not noticed a difference... And, yeah, it'd be hard to know exactly how much she gets when she's sharing with Eddy. Sophie needs the most pellets here, but I'm not entirely sure she's getting that. I put a bowl of pellets in front of her a couple of times a day when Casper isn't around so she can eat, so hopefully that helps, but when it comes to their food toys I think they both get an equal amount.

 

[joey&boo]

Yes, I think so. That way they'll at least eat a decent amount of hay half of the time. That's disappointing that you've not seen a difference with the junior pellets for Boo, either. I guess they're not really more helpful than regular pellets, then, since we've both not noticed a difference... And, yeah, it'd be hard to know exactly how much she gets when she's sharing with Eddy. Sophie needs the most pellets here, but I'm not entirely sure she's getting that. I put a bowl of pellets in front of her a couple of times a day when Casper isn't around so she can eat, so hopefully that helps, but when it comes to their food toys I think they both get an equal amount.

aww its nice you've a little system to top up Sophies nuggets when Casper is exploring other areas. I often think Eddy is elsewhere but he appears very quickly at the sound of nugget administration or chewing. I hope the experiment goes well, i guess you'll be able to monitor through their poops what fun

 

[a reader of books]

aww its nice you've a little system to top up Sophies nuggets when Casper is exploring other areas. I often think Eddy is elsewhere but he appears very quickly at the sound of nugget administration or chewing. I hope the experiment goes well, i guess you'll be able to monitor through their poops what fun

They are very good at noticing sounds related to food, aren't they? That's not so convenient when you want to give Boo extra, though. And thank you, I will! Their poops are already better, so it must be working! I've been seeing them eat more hay, too.

 

[dollyanna]

I'm really struggling with getting the right balance for Sophie and Casper's diet. I've figured out the right amount of pellets now that keeps their weight stable (30g for the both of them, though Sophie gets most of it), and they're very happy with all the pellets, but I'm not very happy at all, because they're eating way, way less hay and greens now. 30g for the both of them doesn't even seem like that much considering the bag recommends 25g per kg bunny, but apparently it makes them feel very full. They ate way more in general when their diet was mostly hay and greens. Does anyone have any ideas on how I can keep their weight stable, but can feed them fewer pellets? I know things like readigrass are higher in calories than regular hay, but they don't like it. I've tried oats, too, but it's not enough to keep Sophie's weight on. Would junior pellets be a good idea? There's more calories in them, so I'd have to give them fewer pellets, but I'm not sure if it would actually change anything since they'd still be getting most of their calories from pellets, so they might just feel equally full from those?

Just rereading this and wondering if you've thought of grass pellets? You can get them in different sizes from equestrian supplies, so you could try asking in local horse groups for samples to try (or write to the suppliers), but if they prefer eating pellets they would at least be eating grass, and getting some degree of grinding from the long fibre, even if it's not ideal.
My other thought is if they need to eat more hay but don't like hay hay so much, my guys really enjoy the compressed hay blocks for horses - you can get different flavours, they usually weigh about a kg each. I used to feed a whole one and just let them munch it, but you can also stick a knife in and gently peel off a slice at a time so less gets wasted. It's more like compressed readigrass, less processed than grass pellets. But the flavouring goes throughout so I keep a couple of different flavours and change it about every time I give them another bit to keep it different.

 

[a reader of books]

Just rereading this and wondering if you've thought of grass pellets? You can get them in different sizes from equestrian supplies, so you could try asking in local horse groups for samples to try (or write to the suppliers), but if they prefer eating pellets they would at least be eating grass, and getting some degree of grinding from the long fibre, even if it's not ideal.
My other thought is if they need to eat more hay but don't like hay hay so much, my guys really enjoy the compressed hay blocks for horses - you can get different flavours, they usually weigh about a kg each. I used to feed a whole one and just let them munch it, but you can also stick a knife in and gently peel off a slice at a time so less gets wasted. It's more like compressed readigrass, less processed than grass pellets. But the flavouring goes throughout so I keep a couple of different flavours and change it about every time I give them another bit to keep it different.

Ooh, grass pellets! You know, Tom used to get those when he stopped being able to eat hay. I got rabbit ones, but I guess the grass bits would be longer in horse ones since they're likely bigger... I'll look into those compressed hay blocks for horses. I've gotten some small compressed hay bales and compressed grassy stuff for for them before, but they didn't like them, but they do like the Rosewood hay cookies, so I wonder what they'd think of those. Thank you for the ideas.