Stasis prone bunnies - any prevention tips?

[martlou]

We had talked about a webcam so yes we might do this, thanks.

Ted's much better this morning, he came looking for his breakfast and ate it all and has been running around and doing his little buzzing noises which we haven't heard for nearly a week.

I forgot to mention yesterday that both the bunnies also have some Profibre for rabbits with their SS, which are described as 'a palatable high fibre pellet to encourage normal digestive function'. We started them on them a few years ago and they both really like them. Maybe we should up the amount for Ted and reduce the amount of his SS? With this and the removal of the fenugreek crunchies and brocolli/cabbage family foods I'm not considering that particularly a dietary change, more an adjustment?

http://www.protexin.com/products/pro-fibre-for-rabbits/32

 

[SarahP]

I'm no expert, but I'd say the ingredients of those Protexin pellets are very similar to SS and other pellets. They just have a bit of prebiotic added to them, which may or may not be beneficial.

 

[Jack's-Jane]

I'm no expert, but I'd say the ingredients of those Protexin pellets are very similar to SS and other pellets. They just have a bit of prebiotic added to them, which may or may not be beneficial.

Agreed

We had talked about a webcam so yes we might do this, thanks.

Ted's much better this morning, he came looking for his breakfast and ate it all and has been running around and doing his little buzzing noises which we haven't heard for nearly a week.

I forgot to mention yesterday that both the bunnies also have some Profibre for rabbits with their SS, which are described as 'a palatable high fibre pellet to encourage normal digestive function'. We started them on them a few years ago and they both really like them. Maybe we should up the amount for Ted and reduce the amount of his SS? With this and the removal of the fenugreek crunchies and brocolli/cabbage family foods I'm not considering that particularly a dietary change, more an adjustment?

http://www.protexin.com/products/pro-fibre-for-rabbits/32

How much SS do you normally feed ? Sorry if you've already said in a previous post

As I have said, personally I would try to keep any pellet feed to an absolute minimum if having a pellet free diet is not something you want to consider for your Rabbits.

 

[martlou]

Agreed



How much SS do you normally feed ? Sorry if you've already said in a previous post

As I have said, personally I would try to keep any pellet feed to an absolute minimum if having a pellet free diet is not something you want to consider for your Rabbits.

I've just put the amount of SS we give into an eggcup and it's just over half full. They get that twice a day though we have given the odd extra pellet throughout the day which we'll stop doing. I don't want to make too many changes to their diet in one go as obviously that's not good for them and (fingers crossed) we'll be on holiday this time next week for a fortnight. If cutting out the fenugreek crunchies and the brocolli doesn't make any difference it is something we can look at next. We have in the past had trouble keeping weight on them and had actually increased the pellet amount slightly, at the vets suggestion. I suppose it's a balancing act!

 

[MightyMax]

I've just put the amount of SS we give into an eggcup and it's just over half full. They get that twice a day though we have given the odd extra pellet throughout the day which we'll stop doing. I don't want to make too many changes to their diet in one go as obviously that's not good for them and (fingers crossed) we'll be on holiday this time next week for a fortnight. If cutting out the fenugreek crunchies and the brocolli doesn't make any difference it is something we can look at next. We have in the past had trouble keeping weight on them and had actually increased the pellet amount slightly, at the vets suggestion. I suppose it's a balancing act!

I certainly think it's worth cutting out the fenugreek crunchies. I have never bought them or fed them, but to hear they are mainly made of corn is quite surprising for a rabbit treat.

If it were me, I would cut out one thing at a time and see if it makes a difference. Otherwise you'll never know what was causing the issue. But there again, that process may be just too slow to help?

 

[martlou]

I certainly think it's worth cutting out the fenugreek crunchies. I have never bought them or fed them, but to hear they are mainly made of corn is quite surprising for a rabbit treat.

If it were me, I would cut out one thing at a time and see if it makes a difference. Otherwise you'll never know what was causing the issue. But there again, that process may be just too slow to help?

We stopped the crunchies immediately (they're broken up to go in the compost bin now, hopefully they won't negatively affect the worms!). I know there's no guarantee but it does seem quite a coincidence that his last stasis episode was the morning after a new bag and we didn't give them for a few weeks, then a week or so ago we reintroduced and he went into stasis again.

I would completely agree it would be more scientific to remove one thing at a time but I'm conscious we (hopefully) go away in a few days so I'd rather they weren't eating things we know might cause a problem whilst we're not here. My gut feel to be honest though is that he's fine with the brocolli. Normally they have a small floret each morning but this morning they had a green bean, half an inch of carrot disc, about an inch or so of celery cut into small pieces and maybe a square inch of red pepper. I haven't read about any problems related to any of these things (apart from not to give too much carrot), does this sound ok?

I ordered some Natural Herb Garden the other day and which has now arrived. It consists of (dried) green oat, parsley, alfalfa, green wheat, nettle, melissa, dandelion, peppermint, meadow hay and camomile so they will get some of that instead of a fenugreek. We've also got some dried raspberry and plantain and they really like that as well.

 

[martlou]

Can't believe what I've just done. Ted had his zantac at 11.30am and was due emiprid at 2.30. Like an idiot I've given him the zantac again I've been so careful with the drugs and now I've overdosed him Have rung the vet to see what to do and just waiting for someone to call back. Next zantac wasn't due until 7.30pm.

 

[MightyMax]

We stopped the crunchies immediately (they're broken up to go in the compost bin now, hopefully they won't negatively affect the worms!). I know there's no guarantee but it does seem quite a coincidence that his last stasis episode was the morning after a new bag and we didn't give them for a few weeks, then a week or so ago we reintroduced and he went into stasis again.

I would completely agree it would be more scientific to remove one thing at a time but I'm conscious we (hopefully) go away in a few days so I'd rather they weren't eating things we know might cause a problem whilst we're not here. My gut feel to be honest though is that he's fine with the brocolli. Normally they have a small floret each morning but this morning they had a green bean, half an inch of carrot disc, about an inch or so of celery cut into small pieces and maybe a square inch of red pepper. I haven't read about any problems related to any of these things (apart from not to give too much carrot), does this sound ok?

I ordered some Natural Herb Garden the other day and which has now arrived. It consists of (dried) green oat, parsley, alfalfa, green wheat, nettle, melissa, dandelion, peppermint, meadow hay and camomile so they will get some of that instead of a fenugreek. We've also got some dried raspberry and plantain and they really like that as well.

Those are very small quantities of veggies, so I am sure they would be OK. How much does he weigh, roughly?

Your dried mix sounds heavenly, and can only be good for his digestion

 

[martlou]

Those are very small quantities of veggies, so I am sure they would be OK. How much does he weigh, roughly?

Your dried mix sounds heavenly, and can only be good for his digestion

He weighs approx 1.8kg give or take a few grams. I've given him some of the dried mix, he's eaten a bit but not that interested. He's like that with the other dried stuff though and will eat a bit, wonder off, go back later and eat a bit more.

I've just sent you a PM about the wrong drug situation, hope you don't mind.

 

[MightyMax]

Can't believe what I've just done. Ted had his zantac at 11.30am and was due emiprid at 2.30. Like an idiot I've given him the zantac again I've been so careful with the drugs and now I've overdosed him Have rung the vet to see what to do and just waiting for someone to call back. Next zantac wasn't due until 7.30pm.

There's not a lot of info available about overdosing Zantac in rabbits, but I think so long as you *don't* give the emeprid, I think you'll be OK. The Zantac also encourages gastric emptying too. That's just my unqualified opinion though ..

https://www.vetstream.com/lapis/Content/Generic/gen00848

Hope the vet is helpful, I know it's a Sunday x

 

[dumblepaws]

I would ask the Vet about having Cisipride as a prokinetic should more treatment be needed.

It has been brought to our attention recently that people are finding it difficult to obtain Cisapride. This statement from RWAF vet Richard Saunders should make the present situation clear

"Your vet can obtain cisapride from abroad, but this requires a certain amount of paperwork and delay, and is done on a "named patient basis" ie only for a specific rabbit, which means that it is difficult to hold it in stock, to start treatment immediately. There is now a UK source, which allows for more rapid ordering and less delay in getting the drug in, and allows vets to stock it for urgent situations. At present this is only available in tablet form, but it can be converted into liquid form by another company. This can be done as required, or vets can hold the liquid in stock for emergencies. Bear in mind that vets are often reluctant to do so as such medications may, if not used frequently, go out of date, and so tablets, which can be given directly to rabbits, or crushed and administered mixed with food or other carrier substances, are often more practical. The suspension may be a good option in chronic cases where rabbits need the drug on a less urgent, longer term basis, and owners are finding it more difficult to give medication in tablet form"

Frances Harcourt-Brown mentioned at the EC Owners Day that she'd used domperidone when cisapride wasn't available

 

[MightyMax]

He weighs approx 1.8kg give or take a few grams. I've given him some of the dried mix, he's eaten a bit but not that interested. He's like that with the other dried stuff though and will eat a bit, wonder off, go back later and eat a bit more.

I've just sent you a PM about the wrong drug situation, hope you don't mind.

Of course I don't mind Will look now .. x

 

[martlou]

Frances Harcourt-Brown mentioned at the EC Owners Day that she'd used domperidone when cisapride wasn't available

Of course I don't mind Will look now .. x

Thanks yes we have had domperidone as well in the past though it came as a tiny tablet we had to cut into 16 pieces and to be honest it was so inaccurate I'm not sure it did anything.

Thanks MM, will reply to your message but yes the vet said don't give the emiprid but to carry on as normal from this evening. We're in a frustrating position to some degree as we've been getting up in the night and I've been working from home for the last few days to give the drugs at the right intervals and the vet I've just spoken to now said it was fine to give the zantac and emiprid together and not the 3 hr interval we've been told. I wish they'd make up their mind because it makes it hard to do the right thing.

 

[MightyMax]

Thanks yes we have had domperidone as well in the past though it came as a tiny tablet we had to cut into 16 pieces and to be honest it was so inaccurate I'm not sure it did anything.

Thanks MM, will reply to your message but yes the vet said don't give the emiprid but to carry on as normal from this evening. We're in a frustrating position to some degree as we've been getting up in the night and I've been working from home for the last few days to give the drugs at the right intervals and the vet I've just spoken to now said it was fine to give the zantac and emiprid together and not the 3 hr interval we've been told. I wish they'd make up their mind because it makes it hard to do the right thing.

Good, I'm pleased to hear the vet agrees with me <phew!>

Will reply to your PM... xx

 

[martlou]

Good, I'm pleased to hear the vet agrees with me <phew!>

Will reply to your PM... xx

Ha yes and thanks, me too!

 

[bunny momma]

I had a stasis bunny and pain from the stais can make the situation worse. Even though some pain meds can make the bunny sleepy and slow the digestion, they may be necessary to reduce/eliminate the pain which will encourage the bunny to eat/drink/move around to allegiate the statis.
You mentined your bunny is on a varied diet. Does your bunny eat too much in one sitting? My stasis bunny had to have her pellets restricted and she also had to be fed twice a day so she did not overeat.
Does your bunny get enought water? Even if they do not look dehydrated, they may need more water because their system will take water from their intestines/digestion for other systems.

 

[martlou]

I had a stasis bunny and pain from the stais can make the situation worse. Even though some pain meds can make the bunny sleepy and slow the digestion, they may be necessary to reduce/eliminate the pain which will encourage the bunny to eat/drink/move around to allegiate the statis.
You mentined your bunny is on a varied diet. Does your bunny eat too much in one sitting? My stasis bunny had to have her pellets restricted and she also had to be fed twice a day so she did not overeat.
Does your bunny get enought water? Even if they do not look dehydrated, they may need more water because their system will take water from their intestines/digestion for other systems.

He's been on two different pain meds, one of them finished 24 hours ago and the other continues until the end of tomorrow. They are good at my surgery in recognising the importance of treating the pain.

He is quite a greedy bunny and normally will eat anything and everything put in front of him however we only feed what I think is a very small amount of veg (certainly compared to a lot of people's descriptions of what their bunnies eat) for example this morning he's had half a green bean, half an inch of carrot (and it was a thin one), an inch of celery cut into small pieces and about a square inch of red pepper. Then he has his 10 SS pellets and a few of the Protexin pellets . We did talk yesterday about spacing the pellets a bit more though in case this could be an issue, and doing 5 when we get up and 5 an hour later before we go to work, then same in the evening, 2 smaller servings of 5. If this still doesn't help, along with the cutting out of the fenugreek crunchies and the brocolli we'll look at Jane's suggestion of reducing the pellets though I am concerned they'll lose weight if we do this as we have had that problem in the past. It's good to know there are options for things we can try though and I'm really very grateful for all the suggestions we've had as we were at a loss.

He has a bowl rather than a bottle of water and it goes down about a centimetre most days, though he has been known to drink more than the full bowl from time to time when it's warmer.

I hate to tempt fate but he's looking like his normal self this morning so fingers crossed he stays that way!

 

[martlou]

Well this is the first day that Ted has been off his meds and he seems right as rain at the moment. Feels like I'm tempting fate though! He's eating at normal and doing some lovely, paler, bigger poos

Martyn his rigged up a webcam as well so we can have a little check on them from time to time when we're on holiday

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Well this is the first day that Ted has been off his meds and he seems right as rain at the moment. Feels like I'm tempting fate though! He's eating at normal and doing some lovely, paler, bigger poos

Martyn his rigged up a webcam as well so we can have a little check on them from time to time when we're on holiday

I hope that he remains well now and that you and Martyn have a lovely holiday xx

 

[MightyMax]

Well this is the first day that Ted has been off his meds and he seems right as rain at the moment. Feels like I'm tempting fate though! He's eating at normal and doing some lovely, paler, bigger poos

Martyn his rigged up a webcam as well so we can have a little check on them from time to time when we're on holiday

I've been thinking of you and Ted all week and hoping for good news!

I really hope you enjoy your holiday, you so deserve it

Will wait to hear all about it on your return :wave: