Grim's having a dental tomorrow. U/D post 26 More bad news...

[mini lop1]

I hate it when they're not there. I've had a rabbit hutch outside my back door since I was eleven and I'm now twenty four. It's just habit to always check them and I feel wrong without them there.

Anyway they're back now, but with some weird news... Grimlock has two molars missing and they think they've fallen out. I'm a little worried but he's being checked up on wednesday and I'll have lots of questions, but if anyone here knows anything about molars falling out I'd be grateful to hear.

My money didn't come through but they've let me pay on monday even though they have a strict rule about people paying immediately. They know me too well. But they all love Grim, the receptionists all ask after him and the vet I saw when I picked him up was saying how they had the run of a dog kennel while they where there and were having a whale of a time tearing up the place. I am so proud of Samus too, she looked after Grim so well.

He's on baytril for his mouth and eye which is still bad, and he has eye drops too. He doesn't seem to want to eat any pellets but he's had soggy bread with medicine on and a bit of apple cut into tiny pieces so I'm happy with that. They're in the bedroom at the moment but itching to get back out. :lol:

my first mini lop mitzi had dental problems, the first time he had a dental we were told he had numerous missing molar teeth, it couldn't be explained, i often wonder if it was down to me fedding him too many treats, backt then i was only a child and thought i was loving him by giving him treats, although we will never really know where his molars went or how

 

[Jenova]

Thank goodness I didn't cause you further distress!
It's bad enough worrying about our buns without a human like me putting their feet in it!

I'm stuck. Lloyd Ferris has a bun with a molar missing. No idea how, as it was only discovered when his bun needed a dental because the opposing tooth had overgrown.

It sounds a good idea to soften his pellets. I'm wondering how to get some fiber in? I once cut Thumper's hay into 1/4" pieces with scissors, & poured hot water over, leaving them to soak to soften them, then mixed them in with his veg. Well he just managed to separate the hay from the veg & spat it out in a neat pile by his bowl didn't he?!:shock: He goes for dried /fresh leaves
for fiber eg bramble at the mo. I suppose they're a bit like crisps - not much chewing needed!

Grim, eat veg? What do you think he is, a healthy bunny? :lol:

At the moment all I can get down him is soft pellets, bread and tiny pieces of apple... yet he's food obsessed... :roll: I've tried all the hay tricks and he separates them too. I even tied hay around pieces of bread. The whole thing went in and the hay came out. :lol:

I think I'll give bramble a go though, that sounds promising, thanks. And mini lop1, Grim does eat really badly, but I've never been told his molars are in bad condition and I'd assume they'd be rotten before they fell out if it was due to treats. I'm sure you did very well with your first bun, I made all the newbie mistakes with my first bun Lopsie too, but he hardly ever needed to go to the vets. I think a lot of the time it's due to genetics and bad breeding... and bad luck.

 

[thumps_]

I really feel for you. Please don't blame yourself.
I kept Thumps the old fashioned way, grass, bedded on hay to eat, traditional wild plants, but he wanted to eat fallen apple leaves & how! All was compounded in that he wouldn't drink water.
The reason I joined the forum was that I didn't want others to go through the nighmare we'd been through.

I actually got Thumps to eat a reasonable amount of hay last year, but it got very dusty, he started sneezing, & then refused all hay again.
He did really well on lawn grass but then the sewers started flooding the garden, every month. :evil:
He'll eat fresh hawthorn leaves, (strip off all buds flowers & berries) Apple leaves sometimes, apple pruning bark, sloe, & dried bramble but I have to rub the thorns off or they get stuck in his fur, & raspberry.

He loves flat leaved parsley, coriander, dill & fennel leaf, dandelions, (wild chervil is a diuretic & also sends him "high") daisy flowers, rocket.
Yep he's addicted to apple too but I had to stop all sugar & starch because he got dybiosis. We eventually found he has a sluggish lower gut, & all the things he eats improve gut motility. It's actually a wild rabbit diet. They can eat other herbs too, but Thumps sticks with those that help his gut. I didn't know which wild plants helped his gut but hedid.

We knew he had tiny molar spikes from when I 1st. got him, but no one thought they were causing probs. It wasn't until we went to a fantastic exotics vet with stasis that they were burred, & it made such a difference.
He drinks now, so he doesn't get much chalk in his wee.

I've made my mistakes too. He was too ill to be neutered. I'm his companion & he's mine. He goes into stasis if I leave him overnight (accidentally). I hope this will give you a few ideas to work on.
Send a pm if I can help further.

Yes I agree that a lot of these dental problems are due to genetics & breeding.

 

[thumps_]

Hoping all goes well for Grimlock today.

 

[Jenova]

Thank you.
I just did a shift at the RSPCA clinic and one of the vets from the surgery I go to was there... and she asked how he was doing. :lol:
He gets so much love and attention from everyone, but bless him he deserves it. He's been through so much from such a young age and all he's ever been is loving, well behaved and just his happy little self.

He came in to see me tonight. I gave him his baytril on some soggy bread and he scoffed that down and was looking for more. I gave him a small bowl of soggy pellets (I like to see him eat, just in case Samus is stealing his food. She had her fancy hay in the hutch as she doesn't like to come inside.) and he ate all that and then sat up at the back door, patiently waiting for me to let him back out.

I love him so much.

 

[Jenova]

Back from his checkup today and more stupid news.

His right eye, which is the bad one (and also the side where his molars fell out) the eyelid has started to roll in. I can't remember the name of the condition but jeez, could that bunny have anything else wrong with him??

My boyfriend said he's melting and soon he's just going to be a hairless, ear-less, toothless, limbless blob rolling around on the floor sucking in soggy bread... Poor old Grim.

Anyway, I spoke to the vet about operating, but I'm still undecided. How much discomfort does it cause? His tear duct is blocked and gunk builds up in the 'reservoir' I think it's called. He's got a bad infection at the moment and it's a bit ulcerated. The eye has clouded up a little and we think he'll loose some sight in it. So would it be best to spare him an operation, or is it something that would help?

I would do it when he next has a dental as I don't like him going under GA as it is. Oh, and when he was coming round on Friday, Samus decided to hump him and she had to be removed... :roll:

 

[lilbun]

If it's an entropian, it's a pretty straightforward operation, and he should feel a lot more comfortable afterwards.
Your OH sounds about as sympathetic as mine- remind him if life were to deal him a similar fate, it would be up to you to choose a home for him.....xx

 

[thumps_]

I understand what you're saying.
The inturned eyelid is called enotropion in humans.
The eyelashes turn in too, & scratch the highly sensitive cornea, which can then get infected, ulcerate, & turn cloudy. It's very painful when the eyelashes scratch the cornea.

It's a minor op to a human, just removing a bit of skin & fibrous plate. It's difficult to get right, because the thin band of scar tissue which forms when the wound heals, can sometimes contract & cause enotropion again.
Bunnies are so much smaller.

The "reservoir" is probably the tear sac, a sort of bag branching out from the tear duct. It's just under the skin too. If it's infected & become a bag of pus, it'll be painful, & AB's can't get to it. In humans the main problem is not cutting or tying the tear duct if the infection has tied everything down in a mass of fibrous tissue.

I see the proposed surgery as difficult technically because it's on such a small scale, but with substantial benefits in making Grim much more comfortable, & low pain post op, because we do not need to cut muscles or go into bone. I see the main risks as being those of a longer GA. There's a good discussion of aneasthetic techniques on http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=217369. Perhaps this is worth discussing with your vet too?

I'm so sorry to hear of the possibility that Grim may go blind. I know it's difficult for us to imagine, but I truly believe that buns cope with blindness infinitely better than we do. They can see almost all around them, but there is only a small strip of 3 D vision. The rest is almost like when we see "out of the corner of our eye".
They get around largely by remembering where things are (internal mapping). Loss of smell & hearing are far more devastating for a bunny.

To encourage you, Thumper needed a GA every month for the last year.
He also has Marie as his vet.
Also I won't point a finger at you over Grim's diet. It's taken me 4 years to understand that Thumps won't hay because the dust irritates his nose, makes him sneeze, & leaves him a sitting duck for snuffles, as well as being painful to chew. He's been a sensible boy in fact.
No I don't see Grim as being a hairless blob!! He's a darling.

 

[Jenova]

Thanks for the advice. I think it's something I will do when it comes round to his next dental, unless I see it getting worse.

My boyfriend was only joking, but it's very frustrating for both of us as Grim was kind of dumped on us by someone and we were never told of all these problems, probably because she didn't know. :? He's the most expensive pet I've ever owned, he's cost me more money than all my other pets combined. And as it's all stemmed from his teeth, a problem he had before I owned him insurance wouldn't cover any of it. But I wouldn't swap him for the world!