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Ginger.. not drinking :( UD: Normal service has returned.
- Thread starter GrahamL
- Start date
GrahamL
Wise Old Thumper
I think perhaps I was worrying about maybe I had done something as I had let them in the garden on Friday.
Fortunately Ginger has drunk ~400ml in her own since 7am so I've stopped syringing. I have absolutely no idea what happened and that worries me more than if I knew why she stopped.
She's really taken to bramble leaves again and is eating a huge amount again now plus her always huge appetite for hay.
Was just about to let them out in the garden but therr are hundreds of little bugs (midges?) in the air and had to remember Ginger isn't vacc'd so have had to keep them indoors.
They both keep sitting at the back door looking longingly outside.
Fortunately Ginger has drunk ~400ml in her own since 7am so I've stopped syringing. I have absolutely no idea what happened and that worries me more than if I knew why she stopped.
She's really taken to bramble leaves again and is eating a huge amount again now plus her always huge appetite for hay.
Was just about to let them out in the garden but therr are hundreds of little bugs (midges?) in the air and had to remember Ginger isn't vacc'd so have had to keep them indoors.
They both keep sitting at the back door looking longingly outside.
Remember Gray, quality over quantity. Badger went outside because he loved it, we have lots of gnats, but it was worth it because he enjoyed it. For me, that was worth the risk (but then we all know what happened to Badger).
But, aside from that, all bunnies with chronic problems will have good days and bad days. The bad days may follow a pattern, or being identifiable (sometimes with hindsight) or they might just appear randomly, and again, hindsight may teach you why.
All you can do is tackle the issues as they arrive. Try not to beat yourself up or cross question yourself. Even if it was something you did, it's only something to learn from, not something to beat yourself up with.
You're doing an awesome job. The communications we have had recently show you exactly how highly I view what you've done with Ginger.
Just enjoy her.
But, aside from that, all bunnies with chronic problems will have good days and bad days. The bad days may follow a pattern, or being identifiable (sometimes with hindsight) or they might just appear randomly, and again, hindsight may teach you why.
All you can do is tackle the issues as they arrive. Try not to beat yourself up or cross question yourself. Even if it was something you did, it's only something to learn from, not something to beat yourself up with.
You're doing an awesome job. The communications we have had recently show you exactly how highly I view what you've done with Ginger.
Just enjoy her.
meadowsweet
Mama Doe
Well said.:wave:Remember Gray, quality over quantity. Badger went outside because he loved it, we have lots of gnats, but it was worth it because he enjoyed it. For me, that was worth the risk (but then we all know what happened to Badger).
But, aside from that, all bunnies with chronic problems will have good days and bad days. The bad days may follow a pattern, or being identifiable (sometimes with hindsight) or they might just appear randomly, and again, hindsight may teach you why.
All you can do is tackle the issues as they arrive. Try not to beat yourself up or cross question yourself. Even if it was something you did, it's only something to learn from, not something to beat yourself up with.
You're doing an awesome job. The communications we have had recently show you exactly how highly I view what you've done with Ginger.
Just enjoy her.
I'm in full agreement with Sky-O about letting your buns go out. It's my bun's great pleasure & the place where he can be what he is -a bunny- by digging the flower bed, making his territorial poop mound & spraying it, & have a good run.
I've a possible explaination for you as to why Ginger stopped drinking now she's started to eat hay & brambles like no tomorrow (high fiber).
We once spoke of how renal failure causes gut slow down by the inability to excrete urea & other wastes. We've also had sudden hot weather recently.
OK because she's leaking water from her kidneys, Ginger has to drink masses. It takes up space in the gut so she's a problem eating enough extra fiber to keep her gut moving & nutrients. She has to extract every last drop of water from her gut to prevent dehydration, so her gut contents are probably a bit thick.
On this knife edge balance she only has to be a few ml short of her fluid needs a day & she slowly dehydrates until the gut contents are so thick they're difficult to push through = even slower gut, & less room for her intake.
I suspect that Ginger was trying to improve her gut function by eating fiber & had to abandon fluids to keep her gut going. I see this very much with Thumper. Interestingly Donnamt noticed that Alvin reduced his fluid intake similarly immediately before a stasis episode. Our bunnies are in a no win situation.
I don't know if it's a bit cooler where you are. Whatever; I think that you've got enough fluids in to soften the gut contents & start everything moving again. :thumb: Ginger has responded by improving her gut motility by eating lots of high fiber. Then she'll be able to eat & drink more. (Hawthorn is a good source of maintance woody fiber, which won't reduce protein absorbtion as much as brambles.)
Does that make any sense?
I've a possible explaination for you as to why Ginger stopped drinking now she's started to eat hay & brambles like no tomorrow (high fiber).
We once spoke of how renal failure causes gut slow down by the inability to excrete urea & other wastes. We've also had sudden hot weather recently.
OK because she's leaking water from her kidneys, Ginger has to drink masses. It takes up space in the gut so she's a problem eating enough extra fiber to keep her gut moving & nutrients. She has to extract every last drop of water from her gut to prevent dehydration, so her gut contents are probably a bit thick.
On this knife edge balance she only has to be a few ml short of her fluid needs a day & she slowly dehydrates until the gut contents are so thick they're difficult to push through = even slower gut, & less room for her intake.
I suspect that Ginger was trying to improve her gut function by eating fiber & had to abandon fluids to keep her gut going. I see this very much with Thumper. Interestingly Donnamt noticed that Alvin reduced his fluid intake similarly immediately before a stasis episode. Our bunnies are in a no win situation.
I don't know if it's a bit cooler where you are. Whatever; I think that you've got enough fluids in to soften the gut contents & start everything moving again. :thumb:
Ginger has responded by improving her gut motility by eating lots of high fiber. Then she'll be able to eat & drink more. (Hawthorn is a good source of maintance woody fiber, which won't reduce protein absorbtion as much as brambles.)Does that make any sense?
dbowes
Warren Scout
Glad she seems to be better, I can sympathise after my first scare with jasper the other day. Jasper doesnt seem to drink a great deal but i always run the tap slighty over their veg and with the mositure already in there i guess they get a lot of their intake from that.
Its difficult to monitor how much they do actually drink when they share a water bowl. Jessica always seems to drink more which concerns me slightly but she eats fine and is always binkying or flopping about showing all the signs of a happy rabbit.
Anyway glad ginger seems ok now
Its difficult to monitor how much they do actually drink when they share a water bowl. Jessica always seems to drink more which concerns me slightly but she eats fine and is always binkying or flopping about showing all the signs of a happy rabbit.
Anyway glad ginger seems ok now
prettylupin
Wise Old Thumper
Oh god let her out Gray don't worry about it. Nino would trip up the step and binky and irritate his arthritis no end but there was nothing he loved more than hopping around the lawn, munching grass and being in the great outdoors. Quality of life over quantity any day
dizzyg
Warren Veteran
I'm in full agreement with Sky-O about letting your buns go out. It's my bun's great pleasure & the place where he can be what he is -a bunny- by digging the flower bed, making his territorial poop mound & spraying it, & have a good run.
I've a possible explaination for you as to why Ginger stopped drinking now she's started to eat hay & brambles like no tomorrow (high fiber).
We once spoke of how renal failure causes gut slow down by the inability to excrete urea & other wastes. We've also had sudden hot weather recently.
OK because she's leaking water from her kidneys, Ginger has to drink masses. It takes up space in the gut so she's a problem eating enough extra fiber to keep her gut moving & nutrients. She has to extract every last drop of water from her gut to prevent dehydration, so her gut contents are probably a bit thick.
On this knife edge balance she only has to be a few ml short of her fluid needs a day & she slowly dehydrates until the gut contents are so thick they're difficult to push through = even slower gut, & less room for her intake.
I suspect that Ginger was trying to improve her gut function by eating fiber & had to abandon fluids to keep her gut going. I see this very much with Thumper. Interestingly Donnamt noticed that Alvin reduced his fluid intake similarly immediately before a stasis episode. Our bunnies are in a no win situation.
I don't know if it's a bit cooler where you are. Whatever; I think that you've got enough fluids in to soften the gut contents & start everything moving again. :thumb:
Does that make any sense?
Thumps! Your posts are always so wise!!:thumb:
Graham - citronella should scare the bugs away, you could get some of those outdoor candles and set them up around the run area? That might give you some piece of mind.
:wave:
GrahamL
Wise Old Thumper
Remember Gray, quality over quantity. Badger went outside because he loved it, we have lots of gnats, but it was worth it because he enjoyed it. For me, that was worth the risk (but then we all know what happened to Badger).
But, aside from that, all bunnies with chronic problems will have good days and bad days. The bad days may follow a pattern, or being identifiable (sometimes with hindsight) or they might just appear randomly, and again, hindsight may teach you why.
All you can do is tackle the issues as they arrive. Try not to beat yourself up or cross question yourself. Even if it was something you did, it's only something to learn from, not something to beat yourself up with.
You're doing an awesome job. The communications we have had recently show you exactly how highly I view what you've done with Ginger.
Just enjoy her.
I think you know how much that post will mean to me.
I'm in full agreement with Sky-O about letting your buns go out. It's my bun's great pleasure & the place where he can be what he is -a bunny- by digging the flower bed, making his territorial poop mound & spraying it, & have a good run.
I've a possible explaination for you as to why Ginger stopped drinking now she's started to eat hay & brambles like no tomorrow (high fiber).
We once spoke of how renal failure causes gut slow down by the inability to excrete urea & other wastes. We've also had sudden hot weather recently.
OK because she's leaking water from her kidneys, Ginger has to drink masses. It takes up space in the gut so she's a problem eating enough extra fiber to keep her gut moving & nutrients. She has to extract every last drop of water from her gut to prevent dehydration, so her gut contents are probably a bit thick.
On this knife edge balance she only has to be a few ml short of her fluid needs a day & she slowly dehydrates until the gut contents are so thick they're difficult to push through = even slower gut, & less room for her intake.
I suspect that Ginger was trying to improve her gut function by eating fiber & had to abandon fluids to keep her gut going. I see this very much with Thumper. Interestingly Donnamt noticed that Alvin reduced his fluid intake similarly immediately before a stasis episode. Our bunnies are in a no win situation.
I don't know if it's a bit cooler where you are. Whatever; I think that you've got enough fluids in to soften the gut contents & start everything moving again. :thumb:
Does that make any sense?
Judy, that makes an amazing amount of sense in my head for once. Been reading a lot (well, what else do you do when you are sat on bunny watch?) about kidney function so it makes more sense than it may have previously, thank you, i will see if we can possibly get some hawthorn in as well
Fortunately, Gingey didnt go into stasis from it this time - im not sure that would have been the case if i hadnt immediately syringed her the fluids - i must have given an awful lot. I genuinely lost count. The sub cut fluids almost certainly did the most of the work i think?
-------
If i get home in time (we're just off out - the microwave blew up :shock
im going to let them out in the garden for a while, supervised of course.Going to try and rather than pen them in, pen off the bits of the garden they arent allowed to get to - i've got rid of the suspected ragwort, roots n all and that whole area will be off limits.
Biscuit was begging again this morning to be let out, he just sat by the back door sniffing the fresh spring air.
I genuinely appreciate the support i've had here. My OH was concerned, but not like me, she just hoped she'd get through it. It's really nice to have like minded people support you.
Bank balance has taken a significant knock again - but needs must. Still in the black...for now :lol:
paintingasunshine.
Warren Scout
get well soon ginger, vibes being sent
I, too, have a bun with impaired kidney function and what you said made sense to me (I think), Thumps. I noticed that Sue drank less after I let her out over the weekend and she nommed loads of brambles.
I was going to give her some brambles when she can't free range as I am at work - as she loved them so much. Is that a bad idea in view of the drink issue?
(Sorry to hijack your thread Gray)
Sending more vibes to the gorgeous Ginger for continued drinking. I hope she and Biccy enjoy their time outside.
I was going to give her some brambles when she can't free range as I am at work - as she loved them so much. Is that a bad idea in view of the drink issue?
(Sorry to hijack your thread Gray
)Sending more vibes to the gorgeous Ginger for continued drinking. I hope she and Biccy enjoy their time outside.
I, too, have a bun with impaired kidney function and what you said made sense to me (I think), Thumps. I noticed that Sue drank less after I let her out over the weekend and she nommed loads of brambles.
I was going to give her some brambles when she can't free range as I am at work - as she loved them so much. Is that a bad idea in view of the drink issue?
(Sorry to hijack your thread Gray
Sending more vibes to the gorgeous Ginger for continued drinking. I hope she and Biccy enjoy their time outside.
:wave: Not necessarily.
fresh brambles contain considerable fluid & some nutrients as well as high woody fiber. They also contain a lot of tannins. Tannins are mildly antiseptic & can help to control the bacterial overgrowth in a bunny gut when it slows down. That's why they were originally used for "scours" = soft/runny caecals =dysbiosis. The problem with tannins is that they bind proteins & iron so if the bunny is losing muscle mass (weight) they can't build it up so easily. I was being mindful of Ginger's weight loss.
I don't know whether tannins increase gut motility in their own right or whether blackthorn leaves have an additional constituent which does this. Blackthorn/sloe leaves are in the top bracket re tannins & I ONLY advise they be used for dysbiosis/stasis which hasn't responded to any other method & for short courses only.
According to Thumper fresh hawthorn has less tannins in it, & is juicier. :lol: I give him a choice by providing both & let him sort himself out cos I can't. :lol:
It's perfectly normal for a bun who eats a lot of green wild plants grass/leaves to get black poops like wildie poops. If the gut is working well they'll be round, a good size, & inside will be all brown fiber.
If bunny is getting dehydrated the poops will be drier & harder & often smaller cos they can't eat so much fiber with gut slow down.
We can help the dehydration problems a lot by giving fresh unwilted high fiber foods & soaking pellets in water so they can only just be picked up.
ETA That helps them by not having to drink so much to keep the gut contents flowing.
I'm waxing pseudo academic. :lol: By far the majority of bunnies seem to know or quickly work out what's good for them when offered their natural wild diet. I think if WE understand what they're trying to do, we can help them more - I hope.
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Thank you lots.
Sue is very underweight sadly. I was amazed at how much of my garden she nommed when she was free ranging. Every time I looked at her she was eating. It is a very overgrown garden with dandelion leaves and loads of brambles and nettles and she found plenty to enjoy. The other seven buns nommed some grass but that was about it.
Am home tomorrow so will let her and Dylan free range again. Both she and Dylan are poorly buns so I am trying to give them as much freedom as I can when it's safe to do so.
I hope Ginger is better today Gray?
Sue is very underweight sadly. I was amazed at how much of my garden she nommed when she was free ranging. Every time I looked at her she was eating. It is a very overgrown garden with dandelion leaves and loads of brambles and nettles and she found plenty to enjoy. The other seven buns nommed some grass but that was about it.
Am home tomorrow so will let her and Dylan free range again. Both she and Dylan are poorly buns so I am trying to give them as much freedom as I can when it's safe to do so.
I hope Ginger is better today Gray?
GrahamL
Wise Old Thumper
Ginger is ignoring pellets. However she has demolished. Huge pile of brambles and is eating hay like its going out of fashion and after the amount of grass she ate this afternoon outside I'm not concerned at all.
Will upload photos tomorrow. Massive space.
She's drunk a LOT of water today too.
Drfinately all moving in the right direction.
Will upload photos tomorrow. Massive space.
She's drunk a LOT of water today too.
Drfinately all moving in the right direction.
Kermit
Wise Old Thumper
Glad she is scoffing and drinking
I missed this thread before, so am happy that i caught up on a nice update.
