Drooling/Wet chin and chest post dental (spurs)? - U/D Getting better

[~ILoveMyBunny~]

My goodness this wait is agonizing Going mad here waiting
Edit: No one answering the phone :? They must be really short staffed today

 

[~ILoveMyBunny~]

On way to go pick him up but don't know anything yet. Will update later..

 

[MightyMax]

On way to go pick him up but don't know anything yet. Will update later..

Hope you have some good news .. fingers crossed for you xx

 

[~ILoveMyBunny~]

Right.. Going to copy this from the printout:

"Lactate: - 8 mmol/L - moderate hyperfusion
Glucose: - 6.3 mmol/L
Ultrasound: - few faeces present but no obvious gut motility"

The ultrasound apparently showed no gas or blockage, but as mentioned above contained few droppings and he said there was no sign of motility.
I understand the glucose reasonably well but have little understanding of lactate - he did explain it briefly but I can't quite remember what it means? He thinks it's a reaction to the anaesthetic and said he did look at the mouth again and it all looks fine.
He's sent him home tonight with ranitidine, emeprid and critical care every 3hrs and wants to see him again tomorrow morning (booked at 9.50am) and probably wants to repeat the ultrasound and admit for the day again unless he's eating.
I do have to say that actually he's been very good and seems to have been very thorough so maybe I was wrong about him. He seems to have looked after him well.

Pixel himself is actually quite bright and has apparently been quite active. He's resting at the moment but did try to leap from my arms when he realized he was home and seemed very excited to get back to his 'bed' (litter tray)

 

[Omi]

I'm glad that you have him home, but sorry that the tests have indicated a problem, possibly caused by the anaesthetic. Hopefully this will only be temporary and he will soon show signs of improvement. It's good that he seems to be reasonably lively in himself.

Sending vibes for him overnight.

 

[~ILoveMyBunny~]

Thank you so much Omi xx
On looking it up I'm thinking it's been written down wrong - the printout says 'hyperfusion' but he said there wasn't enough blood getting to his organs - surely that would be 'hypofusion'?
At any rate at least we've got an idea what's going on but it doesn't sound like good news to me-?
I just saw Pixel chewing and watched him for a second - he's been chewing at his willow ball. He's taking little bits off and eating them. That must be a good sign? No interest in anything else yet

 

[Omi]

I think actually it should be hypoperfusion.

The fact that Pixel is chewing his willow ball, to me, is typical of a rabbit in stasis. He is craving more fibre. Some rabbits will also chew on cardboard for the same reason. I know it's dark now, but could you easily access any Bramble leaves for him outside? He might be tempted. Either way, the fact that he's attempting to eat something for himself is imo good.

 

[MightyMax]

Right.. Going to copy this from the printout:

"Lactate: - 8 mmol/L - moderate hyperfusion
Glucose: - 6.3 mmol/L
Ultrasound: - few faeces present but no obvious gut motility"

The ultrasound apparently showed no gas or blockage, but as mentioned above contained few droppings and he said there was no sign of motility.
I understand the glucose reasonably well but have little understanding of lactate - he did explain it briefly but I can't quite remember what it means? He thinks it's a reaction to the anaesthetic and said he did look at the mouth again and it all looks fine.
He's sent him home tonight with ranitidine, emeprid and critical care every 3hrs and wants to see him again tomorrow morning (booked at 9.50am) and probably wants to repeat the ultrasound and admit for the day again unless he's eating.
I do have to say that actually he's been very good and seems to have been very thorough so maybe I was wrong about him. He seems to have looked after him well.

Pixel himself is actually quite bright and has apparently been quite active. He's resting at the moment but did try to leap from my arms when he realized he was home and seemed very excited to get back to his 'bed' (litter tray)

I'm going to look on the positive side of all this, and send good healing vibes for Pixel

I hope he will make a full recovery. In my experience, things that are said and diagnosed aren't always what they appear. When I took my rabbit to the vet last night, we discussed exactly this ... Even a specialist rabbit vet was proved wrong in his diagnosis on one occasion!

 

[~ILoveMyBunny~]

I know it's dark now, but could you easily access any Bramble leaves for him outside?

Ahead of you on that I just collected some grass and bramble leaves. I don't like to as a rule in case they've been tampered with (it's a long story) but I think the ones near the house should be okay.
I offered both and he wasn't interested. However I caught him with a piece of grass in his mouth just now so I don't know.
He's being a little pain about it. I keep seeing him chewing but I can't actually see him picking food up. Everytime I look at him he stops and just looks at me. I have to pretend I'm not interested in watching him or he just stares.
At the moment he's spending most of his time cleaning himself (apparently the vets got him very dirty.. according to him) but I do see him keep going back to the willow ball and sniffiing at it/occassionally nibbling at it

Edit: Oh two things I forgot to mention. Apparently he was a pain with the I/V and kept pulling it out so the fluid had to be given subcutaneously.
Also we've just had two very small and mishapen droppings. But it's something

When I took my rabbit to the vet last night, we discussed exactly this ... Even a specialist rabbit vet was proved wrong in his diagnosis on one occasion!

Oh, I hope that means there's been some improvement for your boy?

Update:
Still not eating He occasionally nibbles on the willow ball and also on his grass mat. Yet he's got loads of lovely fresh timothy hay around and he's showing no interest.
I just gave him some critical care and the vet lied. He does not like it :roll: I'm wearing more of it than he's eaten. Also had his first dose of emeprid since being home. Ranitidine is at 6am. Feeding every 2-3hrs. Going to be a long night.
I am getting worried. He's quite lively so the fact that he's still not eating is worrying me. I've seen him chewing a few times but never see if he's actually putting anything in his mouth.
There are a few very small mishapen droppings now but not many. Maybe six or seven?

 

[~ILoveMyBunny~]

We have eating!
Not a huge amount - mostly picking at the moment. Went for the bramble leaves first :thumb: But also had a large stalk of basil (with about five leaves on it).
Only worry is he seems to be having trouble. He wants the food but keeps dropping it again. I'm wondering if it's hurting him? He tried to eat several pieces of hay and they all dropped out again

 

[MightyMax]

We have eating!
Not a huge amount - mostly picking at the moment. Went for the bramble leaves first :thumb: But also had a large stalk of basil (with about five leaves on it).
Only worry is he seems to be having trouble. He wants the food but keeps dropping it again. I'm wondering if it's hurting him? He tried to eat several pieces of hay and they all dropped out again

This sounds horribly familiar .. Can you get a second opinion about the mouth/teeth? Did the vet take an X-ray during the dental?

The vet said there was no soft tissue damage, didn't he?

 

[~ILoveMyBunny~]

This sounds horribly familiar .. Can you get a second opinion about the mouth/teeth? Did the vet take an X-ray during the dental?

The vet said there was no soft tissue damage, didn't he?

No x-rays I'm afraid, no. We're pushing it money wise now but won't let him go without if he needs it.
The vet did say he couldn't see anything wrong, no soft tissue damage or anything but as I say I am still wondering about a second opinion.
Pixel does seem to have stopped drooling now (meant to say that earlier).
Do you mind if I ask why it sounds familiar (if so please forgive me, I understand completely if you don't want to say)?

 

[MightyMax]

No x-rays I'm afraid, no. We're pushing it money wise now but won't let him go without if he needs it.
The vet did say he couldn't see anything wrong, no soft tissue damage or anything but as I say I am still wondering about a second opinion.
Pixel does seem to have stopped drooling now (meant to say that earlier).
Do you mind if I ask why it sounds familiar (if so please forgive me, I understand completely if you don't want to say)?

Well I am sure it won't be the same with Pixel, but my vet did a dental and failed to spot something. A second opinion found the issue and we could then treat it.

Yes I would think if Pixel doesn't pick up on the hay eating and continues to drool, I would seek a second opinion. Now it may just be that the teeth need longer to settle down, but you should make sure the vet tells you everything they found when they did the dental - i.e. if there were any loose teeth, any that weren't going to meet (for grinding) however many dentals you did, or something that might progress to be an issue.

 

[~ILoveMyBunny~]

Ah, I didn't know that. I assumed if there was a problem/concern they'd tell you Funny enough I did question them quite a lot on the first dental but didn't this time. I was told by the receptionist that she thought everything had gone okay and without any problems but she may not have known. All I know is that it was the bottom molars, the spurs were growing towards the tongue but not yet touching and that both the vet who did it and the nurse we saw afterwards commented that they were 'bad but not as bad as last time'. I assume this means there are notes kept on it as they wouldn't have known otherwise.
Would it be too nosey of me to ask what it was causing the problem in the case of your bun? As you say it might not be the same but it could be helpful to have an idea of the potential possibilities. That now said I don't want to ask you anything you're not comfortable with so please don't feel you have to, I understand completely if you don't want to say

For the moment I'm going to see how he goes overnight, obviously keep the appointment in the morning. But depending on how he's doing I may well call Windlesham tomorrow and see if Gill could be available or not. Though that in itself is a bit of a risk as the stress of a trip to yet another vet could stop him eating again. Such a difficult balancing act with rabbits
I'm also worried if he has an x-ray that the sedation could send him back down again.
Oh it's always so difficult to know what's right

Update:
It's looking like the eating's slowing down again. I can't see anything else having been touched for about an hour now and he may be very slightly damp around the mouth although it's hard to tell. It just looks like a small amount of the fur is/has been damp. He's resting at the moment so I don't want to wake him up to feel it just yet.
There are however a good (considering) number of droppings and though they're small they're looking a little closer to normal.
I'm getting a feeling that tomorrow may not be so simple

Update 2:
I'm hoping I was getting ahead of myself there as I've just seen him eating quite happily. Walking through again a few minutes later he was eating a small amount of hay and didn't seem to be dropping it this time.
He's definitely favouring the willow wood and to a lesser extent the grass mat. Could they somehow be soothing for him? I know willow wood can be a mild painkiller but he does seem to be very interested in it.
It could also be noteworthy that he's had that willow ball for a good week and a half to two weeks now and barely touched it at all (vs everyone else who destroyed them very quickly), so it's unusual for him to be so interested in it

 

[MightyMax]

Ah, I didn't know that. I assumed if there was a problem/concern they'd tell you Funny enough I did question them quite a lot on the first dental but didn't this time. I was told by the receptionist that she thought everything had gone okay and without any problems but she may not have known. All I know is that it was the bottom molars, the spurs were growing towards the tongue but not yet touching and that both the vet who did it and the nurse we saw afterwards commented that they were 'bad but not as bad as last time'. I assume this means there are notes kept on it as they wouldn't have known otherwise.
Would it be too nosey of me to ask what it was causing the problem in the case of your bun? As you say it might not be the same but it could be helpful to have an idea of the potential possibilities. That now said I don't want to ask you anything you're not comfortable with so please don't feel you have to, I understand completely if you don't want to say

For the moment I'm going to see how he goes overnight, obviously keep the appointment in the morning. But depending on how he's doing I may well call Windlesham tomorrow and see if Gill could be available or not. Though that in itself is a bit of a risk as the stress of a trip to yet another vet could stop him eating again. Such a difficult balancing act with rabbits
I'm also worried if he has an x-ray that the sedation could send him back down again.
Oh it's always so difficult to know what's right

Update:
It's looking like the eating's slowing down again. I can't see anything else having been touched for about an hour now and he may be very slightly damp around the mouth although it's hard to tell. It just looks like a small amount of the fur is/has been damp. He's resting at the moment so I don't want to wake him up to feel it just yet.
There are however a good (considering) number of droppings and though they're small they're looking a little closer to normal.
I'm getting a feeling that tomorrow may not be so simple

Update 2:
I'm hoping I was getting ahead of myself there as I've just seen him eating quite happily. Walking through again a few minutes later he was eating a small amount of hay and didn't seem to be dropping it this time.
He's definitely favouring the willow wood and to a lesser extent the grass mat. Could they somehow be soothing for him? I know willow wood can be a mild painkiller but he does seem to be very interested in it.
It could also be noteworthy that he's had that willow ball for a good week and a half to two weeks now and barely touched it at all (vs everyone else who destroyed them very quickly), so it's unusual for him to be so interested in it

I'm heartened to see this latest update on your bun Sometimes I think they really do know what's good for them, but occasionally chewing on something they don't usually can mean pain. Has the vet given you Metacam to give him, to rule out pain?

Regards my bun, I shall try and let you know in due course. I have a PM from you, thanks so much for that, and I am hoping to get to reply later today. I have another epic visit to the specialist later


I would get a second opinion from Gill, though I realise money isn't endless. She may be a vet you wish to swap over to, or at least go to straight away if your regular vet isn't working at the time

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Ah, I didn't know that. I assumed if there was a problem/concern they'd tell you Funny enough I did question them quite a lot on the first dental but didn't this time. I was told by the receptionist that she thought everything had gone okay and without any problems but she may not have known. All I know is that it was the bottom molars, the spurs were growing towards the tongue but not yet touching and that both the vet who did it and the nurse we saw afterwards commented that they were 'bad but not as bad as last time'. I assume this means there are notes kept on it as they wouldn't have known otherwise.
Would it be too nosey of me to ask what it was causing the problem in the case of your bun? As you say it might not be the same but it could be helpful to have an idea of the potential possibilities. That now said I don't want to ask you anything you're not comfortable with so please don't feel you have to, I understand completely if you don't want to say

For the moment I'm going to see how he goes overnight, obviously keep the appointment in the morning. But depending on how he's doing I may well call Windlesham tomorrow and see if Gill could be available or not. Though that in itself is a bit of a risk as the stress of a trip to yet another vet could stop him eating again. Such a difficult balancing act with rabbits
I'm also worried if he has an x-ray that the sedation could send him back down again.
Oh it's always so difficult to know what's right

Update:
It's looking like the eating's slowing down again. I can't see anything else having been touched for about an hour now and he may be very slightly damp around the mouth although it's hard to tell. It just looks like a small amount of the fur is/has been damp. He's resting at the moment so I don't want to wake him up to feel it just yet.
There are however a good (considering) number of droppings and though they're small they're looking a little closer to normal.
I'm getting a feeling that tomorrow may not be so simple

Update 2:
I'm hoping I was getting ahead of myself there as I've just seen him eating quite happily. Walking through again a few minutes later he was eating a small amount of hay and didn't seem to be dropping it this time.
He's definitely favouring the willow wood and to a lesser extent the grass mat. Could they somehow be soothing for him? I know willow wood can be a mild painkiller but he does seem to be very interested in it.
It could also be noteworthy that he's had that willow ball for a good week and a half to two weeks now and barely touched it at all (vs everyone else who destroyed them very quickly), so it's unusual for him to be so interested in it

sorry not to have replied to your latest pm, i hope that you were able to discuss the issue my last message mentioned and that the vet is certain that neither are an issue x

 

[~ILoveMyBunny~]

I'm heartened to see this latest update on your bun Sometimes I think they really do know what's good for them, but occasionally chewing on something they don't usually can mean pain. Has the vet given you Metacam to give him, to rule out pain?

Regards my bun, I shall try and let you know in due course. I have a PM from you, thanks so much for that, and I am hoping to get to reply later today. I have another epic visit to the specialist later


I would get a second opinion from Gill, though I realise money isn't endless. She may be a vet you wish to swap over to, or at least go to straight away if your regular vet isn't working at the time

Thank you MightyMax Yes, he's been given metacam to take home but I was told not to give him any today (eh, yesterday.. losing track) as he's already had a dose at the vet. He's been on metacam since the dental and before any trouble showed up, though I've yet to give him a dose myself (not complaining!)
I hope your visit goes well and your little boy recovers soon. Please don't wory about replying, you have more important things to deal with

sorry not to have replied to your latest pm, i hope that you were able to discuss the issue my last message mentioned and that the vet is certain that neither are an issue x

Thank you Jane Yes, to a degree but not in as much detail as I'd like. The vet seems certain neither are issues, but I'm not. I'm still strongly considering getting a second opinion but will see how Pixel goes.
Of course the ideal would be to be able to talk to the vet who performed it but obviously that's not an option. I must tell her she's not allowed to go away again!


I just had a very long fight to try to get him to take the critical care (he had the ranitidine first, surprisingly with no problem) but he will not take the critical care. He crawls up my shoulder to get away from the syringe
Maybe I could get him to take a little with help but there's no one to help me at the moment.
I did instead try mashing some science selective in warm water (even threw a basil leaf in for flavour as he seems into it at the moment - took it out before putting in the syringe ) and he seemed a lot more agreeable to that. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to like even the large feeding syringe so it was very, very watery and probably not of much benefit. But that was the best I could do.
There are a nicer number of droppings now - small but heading in the right direction. And so far I haven't seen him drop food again. He's not eating huge amounts but he is eating often. He's quite bouncy and normal looking otherwise.
I did just catch what may have briefly been tooth grinding though..

Sorry for any typo's/mistakes. The lack of sleep is catching up now :lol: Didn't sleep at all monday night (worrying), only a couple of hours at best tuesday night and now staying up tonight.
I guess I should be used to it by now :roll:

 

[nickybunny1]

I am glad to hear there has been small improvements but if you still feel he needs to see the vet I would defo go to the specialist who is further away. I had to travel 90 mins to my specialist and I feel it worth the risk for better care. You are doing an amazing job and being a great rabbit nurse mum. Sending vibes for Pixel.

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Thank you MightyMax Yes, he's been given metacam to take home but I was told not to give him any today (eh, yesterday.. losing track) as he's already had a dose at the vet. He's been on metacam since the dental and before any trouble showed up, though I've yet to give him a dose myself (not complaining!)
I hope your visit goes well and your little boy recovers soon. Please don't wory about replying, you have more important things to deal with



Thank you Jane Yes, to a degree but not in as much detail as I'd like. The vet seems certain neither are issues, but I'm not. I'm still strongly considering getting a second opinion but will see how Pixel goes.
Of course the ideal would be to be able to talk to the vet who performed it but obviously that's not an option. I must tell her she's not allowed to go away again!


I just had a very long fight to try to get him to take the critical care (he had the ranitidine first, surprisingly with no problem) but he will not take the critical care. He crawls up my shoulder to get away from the syringe
Maybe I could get him to take a little with help but there's no one to help me at the moment.
I did instead try mashing some science selective in warm water (even threw a basil leaf in for flavour as he seems into it at the moment - took it out before putting in the syringe ) and he seemed a lot more agreeable to that. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to like even the large feeding syringe so it was very, very watery and probably not of much benefit. But that was the best I could do.
There are a nicer number of droppings now - small but heading in the right direction. And so far I haven't seen him drop food again. He's not eating huge amounts but he is eating often. He's quite bouncy and normal looking otherwise.
I did just catch what may have briefly been tooth grinding though..

Sorry for any typo's/mistakes. The lack of sleep is catching up now :lol: Didn't sleep at all monday night (worrying), only a couple of hours at best tuesday night and now staying up tonight.
I guess I should be used to it by now :roll:

With regards to making a syringe feed with his usual SS pellets, are you soaking the pellets in boiling water and then mashing them up once they have become really soft ? You can add a bit of veg baby food to it and if you have a food processor give it a whisk up in that.

You can also make the hole at the end of a 1ml syringe bigger by poking a prong of a fork up it. The tip of the syringe will snap cleanly off and you can then wiggle the prong of the fork about in the hole to expand it further.

I hope that Pixel's condition improves throughout the day xx

 

[Omi]

Sending lots more vibes for Pixel.

Reading through your updates overnight, I think I would feel quite positive. To me it seems as though he is going in the right direction. He is eating, albeit small amounts, and his droppings are looking more normal and there are more of them. He's also stopped picking up and dropping food. My rabbits have always hated Critical Care (well anything really via syringe) and I don't have much success with that. If he likes the softened pellets with Basil more, I would stick with that. I think the fact that he's eating the willow ball and the grass mat are an indication that he's seeking fibre, rather than anything else. Also the fact that he seems lively is also a good indication of how he feels. I don't suppose you know where you could lay your hands on the thin end branches of Weeping Willow? I've a feeling he might enjoy that.

Sending you lots of hugs. I'm quite sure you are exhausted. I hope today's vet visit goes well. I think you will need to see how he is later to decide whether you need to go to Windlesham. If you are that close, you might prefer to change over completely to her as she has such a good reputation, but whether to take Pixel today or not is really in my view up to how he is.