Advice on VERY low calcium diet please

[Griff]

Hi all

So summer has calcium in urine again - only 3 weeks after a bladder flush. We have tried everything. She’s also had X-rays (no stones) and bloods (liver and kidneys all clear).

We are now syringing water - even though she does drink water. And back on metacam for a while. Vet advised to gradually switch / mix up hay (we feed good quality Timothy hay and she eats a lot of it - still low calcium but going to go more grass hay), add some fresh grass into diet over time, stick with some low calcium veg as now (I soak it in water too - low calcium such as romaine, thyme, basil, small broccoli). She has minimal pellets (around 0.75 egg cup a day) but reducing to nil. She has UTI sticks as replacement (couple broken up a day).

Any ideas on what else I can do apart from above - most of which I already do but trying to reduce calcium even lower.


Also she has one treat a day. I can’t find how much calcium is in treats. Again. Natural type brands such as excel nature snacks, fenugreek crunchies or a bit of dried plantain or dandelion. Sometimes the odd piece of apple, dried cranberry, dried banana. I can’t imagine any of these are high calcium (?).

Any advice from others who have bladder sludge bunnies would be appreciated. She clearly has issues with calcium content. 6 bunnies and she’s only one I’ve ever had with this recurring issue, and all eat the same! She’s only 3.5 and she is such a tough cookie.

 

[a reader of books]

Personally I wouldn't focus on getting the calcium content of her diet as low as possible. Bunnies need calcium, and you don't want her to have a deficiency and it affecting her bones and teeth. With my bunny who had bladder sludge, giving lots of leafy greens has helped a lot, and she hasn't had problems since. I think making sure she gets a lots of water inside her will be a better idea than trying to minimise calcium, as that will flush the sludge out. Encouraging movement is a good idea, too, as movement helps keep the sludge from settling down in the bottom of her bladder, and helps her empty her bladder completely.

 

[joey&boo]

I agree with a Reader of Books. This info sheet by Frances Harcourt-Brown is useful
https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits/diet-sheets/diet-sheet-for-rabbits-with-urinary-tract-disease

 

[SarahP]

I wouldn't say that the diet you describe is very low calcium. Although I don't believe a diet for rabbits is actually possible to be very low calcium - all leafy plants (including grass, hay etc) have a fair bit of calcium in them, and that's their natural diet.

Is the water you have hard, soft or somewhere in between? I'm guessing it may be soft, looking at your geographical location. If it is in any way hard, you can filter it, or switch to a very low calcium bottled water like Volvic.

 

[InspectorMorse]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1094919407000679?via=ihub

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/LiquidMg/Liquid_magnesium.htm

http://www.therabbithouse.com/diet/...o even out,consider swapping to bottled water.

 

[Griff]

Ok thanks. So increase greens. She used to have kale and spring greens but o was told to stop kale. Assume spring greens and romaine are ok.
She is very active and runs around binkey and is really fast. She is outdoors and access to large double tiered huge, huge run and a runaround all day and night. I’m not worried about her activity levels. I need to get water up I think!

 

[Griff]

I’ve checked water before and it’s medium. Definitely not a hard water area. Thanks

 

[Griff]

Thank you. This is useful. I did wonder if a small amount of cranberry juice would help…. I’ve not heard of the magnesium before

 

[Shimmer]

Kale is the same family as spring greens, cabbage, etc. If one is causing issues, the others probably will. I had a sludgey bun who couldn't tolerate any brassicas.

As others have said (and from the links to FHB), increasing the bladder throughput is the way forward - so increase fluid intake (by fresh grass & greens whenever possible, plus water in a bowl rather than bottle) and increase bladder emptying by allowing / encouraging more running around, such as scattering food and allowing more space with different activities to keep them interested. Wild rabbits don't eat any dried food and are constantly active and flicking urine around, so it never gets the chance for sludge to build up. Pet rabbits are a lot more sedentary and usually don't have nearly as much space to run as an equivalent wildie, so the urine sits in the bladder for a lot longer. That encourages sludge to build up, which in turn can result in more frequent UTIs.

 

[Shimmer]

In case you've not seen it before, the minimum space requirements are given by the RWAF as 3m x 2m in one block:

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/space-recommendations/

 

[a reader of books]

Ok thanks. So increase greens. She used to have kale and spring greens but o was told to stop kale. Assume spring greens and romaine are ok.
She is very active and runs around binkey and is really fast. She is outdoors and access to large double tiered huge, huge run and a runaround all day and night. I’m not worried about her activity levels. I need to get water up I think!

As far as I know, spring greens are actually higher in calcium than kale. That said, my bunny who had bladder sludge gets kale. I don't really worry about calcium content in veggies for her, as they're mostly water. The UTI sticks your bunny has (mine gets them, too) provide her with way more calcium than any veggie you could give her, because it's all dry, so you get a lot of calcium in only a little bit of food. If you look at this page (Frances-Harcourt Brown again, like the link from j&b. If you click on the photos it gives more information) you'll see that a bunny only has to eat a small amount of pellets to reach the amount of calcium they need, while they'd have to eat quite a lot of high-calcium veggies.

It's great that she's so active!

 

[SarahP]

The darkest green leaves of anything are usually the ones highest in calcium.

 

[Griff]

As far as I know, spring greens are actually higher in calcium than kale. That said, my bunny who had bladder sludge gets kale. I don't really worry about calcium content in veggies for her, as they're mostly water. The UTI sticks your bunny has (mine gets them, too) provide her with way more calcium than any veggie you could give her, because it's all dry, so you get a lot of calcium in only a little bit of food. If you look at this page (Frances-Harcourt Brown again, like the link from j&b. If you click on the photos it gives more information) you'll see that a bunny only has to eat a small amount of pellets to reach the amount of calcium they need, while they'd have to eat quite a lot of high-calcium veggies.

It's great that she's so active!

Yes. I’ve been looking today and her UTI sticks are 0.5% (more than Timothy hay or her veg). I am reducing them too and taking pellets to zero. So basically very little dried food. Think water intake is the key by looks of it. Interesting link - thank you