Sneezing/coughing but no 'disease'?UPDATED 22/07/11

I need some advice on my house rabbit Dennis.

We took him to the vets as we had noticed his breathing was very fast but shallow. He sneezed and coughed and shook his head a couple of times too. But there was NO discharge from eyes, nose or mouth. He was eating and bright but definitely not as active as usual. Gordon was concerned he had a grass seed stuck up his nose. At the vets he had his temperature taken, ears, eyes checked and scope up the nose! She couldn't find anything but said the scope can only see so far. He had antibiotic and inflammatory injections and Baytril and Metacam to continue with for a week. Vet said maybe a stem of hay has poked his nose or even dust.

Although he's bright and eating, he hasn't run round or flopped out for over a week. No longer convinced it was a foreign body my husband took him back to the vets. Fi my vet was off but the vet he saw was very good. The vet said it's infection, pasturella or something else I can't remember. Said his lungs were clear, there was nothing in his nasal cavity and no tooth root problems evident thank god ( that was my worry) and he's just got a common cold! It's obviously affecting his breathing but he said he's not overly concerned. He's happy he's eating and alert enough. He hasn't lost weight. Told us to continue with the meds, give them a bit longer to work. If not, then there are injections he can try but he'd prefer to continue with Baytril as it doesn't mess up the gut as much.

Two weeks later, we still had him on the meds ( with probiotics) and he was improving. He finally flopped out, which he had not done in ages. But the symptoms still hadn't gone. My vet suggested taking away our rug ( may be the fibres he's allergic to) and I have even changed his hay to dust free stuff instead of bales but it doesn't seem to have made much difference :?.

We are stumped. My vet has allowed him to have one more weeks worth of meds but must be seen again beginning of next week. We have totally run out of ideas...

If it was infection surely the baytril would've cleared it up by now. The baytril definitely helps ( as when hubby missed a couple of days because it was the weekend and the vets had shut he got worse) but it's not 'curing' it.
He obviously can't stay on the baytril much longer.

There is nothing new in the lounge or anything he could be allergic to.

I have a video I managed to take of him sneezing and it shows how violent they are, although he doesn't seem ill as you can see from the video he doesn't stop eating! :lol:

I'll try and and add it now.

Any thoughts would be hugely appreciated. Have no idea where to go from here?!

Baytril is relatively ineffective against things like Pasteurella, yet often vets try it first because it's the only one licensed for use in rabbits.

If it's making a small difference then that implies it is infecton related, just that the Baytril is not effective against his infection, so it can't eradicate it.

I would be looking at different meds if he was mine. There are a variety of other antibiotics available that could be more effective and more beneficial for him. They do come with risks, but all meds do.

Did the vet mention what injectable medicine he would try?

Baytril is relatively ineffective against things like Pasteurella, yet often vets try it first because it's the only one licensed for use in rabbits.

If it's making a small difference then that implies it is infecton related, just that the Baytril is not effective against his infection, so it can't eradicate it.

I would be looking at different meds if he was mine. There are a variety of other antibiotics available that could be more effective and more beneficial for him. They do come with risks, but all meds do.

Did the vet mention what injectable medicine he would try?

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Thanks. We are worried sick about him.

My husband took him that time and he said to me the vet didn't say which ones just there are ' other treatments.' We have to try something else, this isn't working :roll:

Maybe a good place to start, once he is off the Baytril is a Culture and Sensitivity test to find out what he is struggling with.

I would advise a culture and sensitivity test but you will have to wait for a couple of weeks after you have stopped the antibiotics.My rabbit Blue sneezes and coughs all the time,he has an upper respitory tract infection due to him being poorly when having the myxo vaccine,he has no discharge just sneezing fits,I give him a powder called bisolvin to make his secretions runnier and he is also on an antibiotic injection every three days,my buns carry the staphylococcus aureus bacteria which can cause the same symptoms as pasturella

I know I sent you this already but thought I would add it to the thread for the benefit of anyone doing a search in future.

Just wondered if his breathing problems look anything like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uIP_Zff0Us ? Oidhche doesn't sneeze in this one but when she does often it's many sneezes one after the other, with a violent twitch of the head.

I don't suppose Dennis is a rex by any chance? Just noticed your avatar.

Oidhche was a pretty severe case, her breathing was at its worst there. It's not pneumonia (I should really change that) she has an enlarged heart which causes back-up pressure on the lungs which gives the breathing problems. Oidhche often does three sneezes as well, don't know if that's related or not. She is also a house rabbit.

As far as I can find, it's a problem found in rexes quite a lot, because of the awful breeding Diagnosis is through an examination and x-rays, my vet had no experience of it in rabbits so we started treatment to see if it would make a difference. Oidhche's treatment is Furosemide, a diuretic to remove the fluid causing the pressure on the lungs, Enalapril, an ACE inhibitor used for heart failure, and Pimobendan (Vetmedin) also for heart failure. I noticed a massive difference within a few weeks of starting treatment, the Pimobendan giving the biggest improvement. Unfortunately it's not curable and the only treatment is life long medication. We found that cooled chamomile tea helps her breathing slightly, it's a natural sedative and she loves it which helps.

Here is Oidhche's thread if you would like a read http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/sh...d.php?t=281880 and Pearl's, another bun who had the same problem http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/sh...=pearl+donnamt I would certainly bring it up with your vet, as I say some have never heard of it so definitely worth mentioning.

Here is the video I took hun x Thank you so much for all the advice!



http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v490/BunnyBonkers/?action=view&current=P1030198.mp4

Lea-Anne said:

Here is the video I took hun x Thank you so much for all the advice!



http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v490/BunnyBonkers/?action=view&current=P1030198.mp4

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I'm afraid this is very much was Oidhche looked like. The sneezing is exactly the same. I can also see some slight respiratory distress around his tummy where he is putting in more effort to get the air in, along with the continual rocking motion I was talking about. It's harder to see as he's nomming away but it's still there.

I really hope it is not his heart but I would certainly mention it to your vet.

So what medication should I ask for?

I will definitely be printing all this off and mentioning it to my vet. She is a great rabbit savvy vet but even she has admitted she is stumped. She will definitely take me seriously, thankfully and then we can get him on the correct meds.

Thanks again hun, without you PMing me I never would of considered it was anything more than he needed different abx.

Definitely looks cardiac to me too.

Has Bun had a chest Xray ?

I would be thinking along the lines of CCF or maybe a Thymoma

Sadly Rexes are prone to Heart Disease, I have seen it too many times to think it's a coincidence.

jeremy often looks like this but when i got him he supposedly had allergies which turned out to be am untreated respirtary infection. The vet thinks his symptoms are due to scarring on his lungs. Although shes never mentioned to me the possibility of a heart problem. Hes come through three ga's without a problem.

I am sorry to say but it looks remarkably like heart condition to me as well.

I have linked this video I made of the young Rex we had last year who had congenital heart disease. I think the behaviour is very similar to that in your video of Dennis. I can't see clearly in your video if he has a blue tinge to his lips, mouth or tongue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFNcMYM89GQ

from the clip he has some similarities with how matt breathes (chronic respiratory case) with the extra effort to breathe, the movement and the nostrils kind of 'gulp' in air. but to be honest, it does seem to look more than that aswell.

there are alot of different treatments to try with respiratory problems and it can take a while to find something that works and to keep them stable. i don't know if there would be a different way of doing things in your case if the heart maybe affected.

i would say something stronger than baytril definitely. and then usually a long course is needed, usually a few months to start. nebulising is also very good for keeping the nose clear and getting antobiotics to where they are needed. and then an anti-inflammatory such as metacam aswell.

a c+s test aswell can sometimes identify which bacteria are present and what would be best to treat it. although, the bacteria can swap and change alot in some cases aswell so it's a case of trying a certain treatment and changing if it doesn't work and trying something else. also, during the c+s, they can have a look for an foreign bodies in the nose, see if there is any mucus build up or scar tissue damage, check the throat and take xrays etc. just check everything basically.

i can't comment on the possible heart issues as i don't know about that.


he's a lovely rabbit

eta: the vet that said it was pasturella. that is just the general name everyone uses for 'snuffles'. without testing he wouldn't know if there was pasturella present. my vet told me that a third of cases are pasturella, a third bordatella and then a third are a mix of different bacteria's. the c+s would tell which it was.

also, bisc (my other respiratory bun) doesn't get a discharge from the nose and never really has but he does have an upper respiratory infection. he had the dry sneezing fits and he sounds bunged up and snores alot. so it could be an upper infection without discharge aswell.

Hi guys :wave:

Just got back from the vets and was able to show my vet that video I put up on here but also an additional clip taken last night ~ which is a lot worse -it looks like he can't breath but I darn't put it up here as it's major upsetting, even though afterward he starts to munch on hay ?! :shock: At least I had 'evidence' to show her what we have witnessed.

My vet agreed he sounds worse and she is stumped. She has never heard of this in rabbits, but has treated him with a diuretic tonight in the hope we will see improvement.

He is booked in for an X-Ray first thing Friday. She said this will help to know what we are dealing with - tumour, infection or heart problem. Unfortunately it'll only be a lateral view as she said it is too risky to put him out inable to get a side on view.

She took down all the details of Coineanach's informative PM and her vets details in case she wants to contact him at a later date.

Thanks again,

Leanne & Dennis x

Dennis had his X-ray today. No tumour and no enlarged heart found but a tiny bit of fluid on his lungs.

He was so good at sitting still for the arial view they managed to get him to lie on his side ( with a sand bag on him:shock::lol: ) and get another view without knocking him out. They said he had loved some nose rubs and hadn't stopped eating all day :lol: I expected to find him quite stressed when I picked him up but he seemed very relaxed


We found although the injection from Wednesday didn't change his breathing it did seem to lessen how violent his sneezing fits were so my vet has perscribed Frusemide is hoping to see further improvement at his next check up in five days time.

She has never seen this in rabbits before and although she discussed it with another vet she found it hard to describe his symptoms so has asked if we can email her the two videos I have. Hopefully circulating this information will spread the word and save other rabbits.

He's home now and he is full of beans! He's had another injection ( a high dose) for today and it's obviously making a difference! I cannot tell you how relieved I am!