"Tummy bunny" parents please help.

[thumps_]

Roo says thank you for the vibes ... he's eaten them along with everything else in sight :roll: I'm definitely going to try a car ride with him next time he's got bloat symptoms, he was panting and shaking when I first saw him but no symptoms (except being grumpy) when he came back home. He even stole some carrot of Tinks a couple of hours or so later.

I'm delighted that Roo's bloat is better.
Apparently it's the vibration that does it, so you either need a very bumpy road or some folk in the USA use that massager thing for knotted up muscles. :shock::shock::shock: I'd have to scrape my boy off the ceiling if I tried any of that hanky panky on him!!!

 

[giantbunnymummy]

I really empathize with you giantbunnymummy. That 2 buns should get gut issues at the same time with a change from fresh organic to shop bought veg is interesting. Is Jester back to normal now?

I think it may be worth persuing further tests. As Rudy's Mum said earlier, a very small minority of stasis buns have a sharp angle where the small bowel enters the caecum & this can block easily.

The top bunny vet in the North of England is Francis Harcourt -Brown in Harrowgate South Yorkshire.

Thanks for reply

Jester seems fine thanks. He's not had (touch wood) any further tummy problems since before Xmas.

Daisy left some caecals and a big squidgy mass of poo in the tray this morning But loads of normal, round, golden poos too. I gave the buns some carrot yesterday, so I suppose it's that. It now seems that any fresh stuff at all upsets her tummy.

I've been considering asking for a referal to see FHB, but as we don't have a car the transport implications are very difficult - at least a 5 hour round trip on the train and using taxis. Daisy and Jester would hate it

Just don't know what to do for the best :?

ETA: So glad Roo is ok

 

[thumps_]

I understand the problem, & we don't want to tip Daisy into stasis by the stress of the journey.
Was the big sqidgy mass all caecotroph material - or did it have waste poops mixed inside it rather like http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=208430&page=18 post #180?
The photo is poor, but the description reasonable.
May I pm you & perhaps join your thread? - I've lost track of it.

 

[lilbun]

Interesting thread.
Mine normally get loose spring greens from A on an almost daily basis, especially since the grass has been a little thin on the ground this winter, but I recently had to buy the bagged version for the first time because A hasn't had any loose spring greens lately. The very next day, Apricot Le Bunbun went into stasis: his first ever bout of illness in nearly 4 years. He's fine now, but I won't buy bagged greens again xx

 

[thumps_]

It was a trip to the vets today.
Apparently a lot of farm animals have also had GI issues this winter.

My apologies to Jenova. You were right.

It looks like there's been crop spraying.
It's possible that the brands which do NOT give issues have come from abroad where there was no crop spraying.

 

[donnamt]

It was a trip to the vets today.
Apparently a lot of farm animals have also had GI issues this winter.

My apologies to Jenova. You were right.

It looks like there's been crop spraying.
It's possible that the brands which do NOT give issues have come from abroad where there was no crop spraying.

was his dental today hun? i thought it was tomorrow and i was just about to search for his thread to wish him well

hope hes ok xxxx

 

[Bunny Buddy]

I've been considering asking for a referal to see FHB, but as we don't have a car the transport implications are very difficult - at least a 5 hour round trip on the train and using taxis. Daisy and Jester would hate it

Just don't know what to do for the best :?

I don't know how far into Lancashire you are, public transport in North Yorkshire is a joke. If you get to wanting to see FHB and you can get to Skipton easily, I could help you with the rest of it... it would have to be on a Thursday though, most likely.

 

[giantbunnymummy]

I don't know how far into Lancashire you are, public transport in North Yorkshire is a joke. If you get to wanting to see FHB and you can get to Skipton easily, I could help you with the rest of it... it would have to be on a Thursday though, most likely.

Thank you so much :wave: I will let you know if we do decide to see FHB
Hope Roo is all back to normal now


Loads of vibes for Thumper :wave:

 

[bunny mad lisa]

thank you for this thread as i have had several gas attacks with my bunnies over the winter!
out of my 8 bunnies one bunny has had several bouts and 3 bunnies have had 1 bout each . The bunny who had the most bouts used to have them regular but hasn't suffered in 2 years! I have also noticed that they nearly always start in the late afternoon rather than the morning. i always feed veggies at teatime and pellets in morning so didn't think it was them but how long does food take to digest?

i have ben thinking it may be the new grass as the bunnies who have been o.k haven't been out on the grass very much as they are older bunnies who suffer with the cold.

I always buy my veg from T. I buy kale prebagged, cauli, carrots, broccoli and prebagged herbs plus other oddments. In the last week i decided to cut their veg right down incase it was the problem and am only feeding a small amount of carrot, kale and broccoli and more herbs. I always was h all the veggies even if it says it is washed.

 

[thumps_]

Thank you for your post bunny mad lisa.
I'm truly sorry to hear that you are also having a difficult winter with bunny tummy troubles.
Are your bunnies better now, or do they still have problems?

 

[abbymarysmokey]

I shop at A, T and S regularly and haven't had any issues with the bags of whole spring greens...but I do always look for the nicest bag.

The only GI issues I've had within the past year or so have been teeth related, or the bun has arrived poorly.

I personally never feed bags of any chopped/shredded leaves because I think they ferment quickly. I don't have any evidence of this, but I've spent so many years being terrified of the animals getting hold of cut grass (first with horses and then rabbits) that I have a bit of a mental block towards feeding anything pre-chopped

 

[Hunnybunny2007]

I shop at A, T and S regularly and haven't had any issues with the bags of whole spring greens...but I do always look for the nicest bag.

The only GI issues I've had within the past year or so have been teeth related, or the bun has arrived poorly.

I personally never feed bags of any chopped/shredded leaves because I think they ferment quickly. I don't have any evidence of this, but I've spent so many years being terrified of the animals getting hold of cut grass (first with horses and then rabbits) that I have a bit of a mental block towards feeding anything pre-chopped

I think this is where the problem lies, mine are fine on whole veg, but if they have the prepacked chopped one or two of them get upset tums.

 

[thumps_]

Thank you for your suggestions.

I am in agreement with you re. whole veg being preferable to chopped veg. for the same reasons. However there has been a prolonged period down here when whole veg was not obtainable, apart from coarse leaves round cauliflower.
ETA When I had to cut grass in summer, I did so x3daily purely because of my concerns about yeast & fungal issues. (Somewhat neurotic I suspect)

I assumed that it was simply Thumper's dental issues & sluggish caecum, + the many factors, which can contribute to gut hypomotility which were the problem, until I heard of several people experiencing gut issues in their buns for the 1st. time ever, this winter. It was definitely linked to the place of purchase of the veg.

When Thumps refused to eat veg from 2 certain supermarkets, but would eat the same veg from a 3rd. I wondered about the washing of the veg. It also applied to whole veg surrounded by cellophane as soon as it became available.

I put up the thread to try to determine whether this was a local issue or whether it was more widespread.

Many of the affected buns do have dental issues, but their gut is kept well under control, under normal circumstances. Thumper's gut had been perfect for 12 months, with regular dentals, & a high fiber diet based on a wild rabbit diet.

Where symptoms have been described, the issues we have encountered appear to be bacterial/yeast overgrowth in the caecum, causing a sluggish lower bowel +/- gas. That only 1 rabbit may be affected out of several on the same diet, indicates to me that the affected bun has a slight predisposition to gut issues, which may not manifest except under extreem circumstances. Buns with this issue appear to crave fiber, before other symptoms become apparent.

Although we cannot do the research necessary to determine the cause of this, I felt that we could offer some helpful advice to others, on the basis of our own solutions.

ETA I accept that Thumper's keeping has been old fashioned. He has never had commercial treats, but only plants/grass & hay. Freedom to excercise x2 daily + free ranging indoors otherwise, has been similarly important. He has several health issues, which necessitate this approach foor good control,

 

[abbymarysmokey]

thumps_, have you found it to be a local issue? I know the freshness of veg in supermarkets often depends on the distance from distribution centres, etc (e.g. when we only had one Waitrose in the area, the fresh fruit and veg from there was not good at all).

I have 24 rabbits here ranging in age from less than 1 year to more than 12 years old...so quite a good 'test group' for trialling foods...so if anybody has any doubts about the veg from a particular supermarket, I'm happy to try it out on my bunch :wave:

 

[thumps_]

thumps_, have you found it to be a local issue? I know the freshness of veg in supermarkets often depends on the distance from distribution centres, etc (e.g. when we only had one Waitrose in the area, the fresh fruit and veg from there was not good at all).

I have 24 rabbits here ranging in age from less than 1 year to more than 12 years old...so quite a good 'test group' for trialling foods...so if anybody has any doubts about the veg from a particular supermarket, I'm happy to try it out on my bunch :wave:

Thank you for the offer abbeymarysmokey. I really wouldn't wish this on anybun. Members have posted from Cornwall, Southern England, through the Midlands, as far as Lancashire & recently Lincolnshire.
Of the 4 owners with 8 buns I know personally.
1 bun was unaffected.
2 made a rapid complete recovery.
1 has had recurrent severe bloat (unusual severity & frequency)
4 have symptoms of poor caecal function of varying severity, despite the standard dietary measures. They've grumbled on for several months now. None of them have dental issues.

Thumps has had mild symptoms, but they are of concern because his food & especially fluid intake flucuate markedly before his monthly dental. [As soon as his tongue begins to hurt he rests his mouth by hardly eating & tucks in again the next day or so] We are managing well, only needing Zantac for 2 days after a dental.

In view of the 4 buns with severe ongoing symptoms, please I beg you not to take any risk with your own.
"S" is OK in the South. I praised them, & told them about a few issues with veg fed to bunnies from their competitors. I'll have to see whether getting the edge on the market, will spur them into the necessary research.

 

[prettylupin]

Judy is familiar with my buns but for any others interested:
We mostly only shop at W as it is our closest supermarket. On every occasion we have bought bunny veg in T it has caused either extreme dysbiosis (to the point of scours) when unwashed, to mild caecal upset when washed. The products were prepackaged herbs and salad such as watercress etc. However, T's organic carrots with tops which are clearly unwashed before packaging as contain vast amounts of sand/sediment have not caused any problems in the past - they are currently out of season.
Have also used S with no problems. Never shop in A or M.
I can feed W prepackaged herbs and watercress/peatops without any washing at all with no upset but tend to wash anyway out of caution.
I have one bun predisposed to bloat/stasis who otherwise has excellent caecal function and no significant dental problems.
The other bun has a sensitive caecum and is prone to dysbiosis but not the bloat and also has no dental problems. I am in the South West/South East England.
Both buns have a high fibre, pellet free diet.
Hope this helps

 

[abbymarysmokey]

In view of the 4 buns with severe ongoing symptoms, please I beg you not to take any risk with your own.

Not sure what you mean by take a risk with my own? :shock: I just meant if my 24 have no problems with veg from a particular supermarket (I shop at all the main supermarkets anyway), then it's probably the individual rabbit rather than supplier

 

[Hugo's There]

I haven't read the whole thread but just thought I would add that we regularly shop at M and also occassionally shop at T and A for our greens. More recently we have had to use the pre chopped greens as that is all that has been available :roll:

We always have between 35 and 40 buns here and generally don't have any problems with stasis with our buns despite all their health problems. The odd one or two that do get it very infrequently we can ususally put the cause down to something else.

Those that have had regular stasis episodes in the past have always turned out to have an underlying problem

 

[Phoebesmummy9]

I wont buy greens from T or A anymore, both have caused huge problems in my bunnys, esp my little man Phoebe!
I generally find M or Aldi ok if the local fruit/veg shop dont have alot to offer

 

[thumps_]

I haven't read the whole thread but just thought I would add that we regularly shop at M and also occassionally shop at T and A for our greens. More recently we have had to use the pre chopped greens as that is all that has been available :roll:

We always have between 35 and 40 buns here and generally don't have any problems with stasis with our buns despite all their health problems. The odd one or two that do get it very infrequently we can ususally put the cause down to something else.

Those that have had regular stasis episodes in the past have always turned out to have an underlying problem

I would normally agree with you Hugo's There.
Of those which come to mind 3 pairs of buns got symptoms at exactly the same time. The earliest buns fell ill at the beginning of Nov. associated with a brief change to supermaket veg. 1 bun recovered on changing back to non supermarket veg. the other with continued illness has had a full bloodscreen -haematology & for metabolic disorder, return negative. Teeth fine. No other illness has become manifest over the intervening 5 months. Neither bun has had previous gut issues.

Another pair fell ill at the same time in Dec. again when supermarket veg was needed. Coccidia were isolated from the stool & full treatment given, but there has been no improvement in the gut issues. Neither bun has had previous GI issues. No other illness has manifest over the last 3 1/2 months.

Pretty lupin has described her experience above.

ETA Thumper had a complete blood screen at the end of Jan. Completely normal.