kattymieoww
Warren Veteran
Great news,she's looking well.
-
Forum/Server Upgrade If you are reading this you have made it to the upgraded forum. Posts made on the old forum after 26th October 2023 have not been transfered. Everything else should be here. If you find any issues please let us know.
The Plumpkin Thread - Spay Tuesday 12th
- Thread starter Beapig
- Start date
Scrappy's Little Helper
Mama Doe
Aww I'm so pleased with how well she's doing. I often think about her and wonder how she's getting on. You've done an amazing job for her. She's such a lovely bunny she really deserves this wonderful new life you've been able to give her. xx
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm sorry to say that Plumpkin is unwell - grinding her teeth and off her food again. We'll be back to the vet with her asap.
It's feeling really hard to stay positive with her up and down like this. I've already spent close to £400 on her for vet bills, which is totally my responsibility having rescued her and I am bearing it, but the uncertainty of whether her quality of life will ever improve is draining.
I suspect another spur has grown and is causing her mouth pain. I'm anticipating another £100 dental operation. Please send good vibes to her. I feel really hopeless and ignorant, not knowing whether or not she's getting the right diet to keep her teeth in check. I don't feel very reassured by my vets, who haven't given me any advice on diet or aftercare at all beyond giving her medication. It almost makes me feel like her needs haven't been taken seriously because she's 'just a rabbit' or something?
P.s. thanks so much to Zoobec for sending me Readigrass in the post. I coated it in mushed banana to try and encourage her to eat it, but she just licked off the banana and left the grass :roll: My other two have already enjoyed a small portion so it won't go to waste, thanks so much for kimdly sending it to me <3
It's feeling really hard to stay positive with her up and down like this. I've already spent close to £400 on her for vet bills, which is totally my responsibility having rescued her and I am bearing it, but the uncertainty of whether her quality of life will ever improve is draining.
I suspect another spur has grown and is causing her mouth pain. I'm anticipating another £100 dental operation. Please send good vibes to her. I feel really hopeless and ignorant, not knowing whether or not she's getting the right diet to keep her teeth in check. I don't feel very reassured by my vets, who haven't given me any advice on diet or aftercare at all beyond giving her medication. It almost makes me feel like her needs haven't been taken seriously because she's 'just a rabbit' or something?
P.s. thanks so much to Zoobec for sending me Readigrass in the post. I coated it in mushed banana to try and encourage her to eat it, but she just licked off the banana and left the grass :roll: My other two have already enjoyed a small portion so it won't go to waste, thanks so much for kimdly sending it to me <3
Craig 1965
Warren Veteran
I'm saddened to read of this update with Plumpkin. I hope that the vet can identify the problem and take corrective action. Sending millions of vibes for the beautiful Plumpkin and hope that any procedure goes well for her.
MightyMax
Banned
So sorry to hear this
I wish your vet could do conscious dentals, which would be very quick, no recovery time and only the cost of a consult. But maybe you don't feel that would be appropriate anyway.
You are far from hopeless and ignorant. You are giving her the best diet possible. If a rabbit doesn't eat hay/grass then it's very very likely that they can't and nothing you've done has contributed to the teeth issue. The teeth problem always comes first ...
My lovely vet wrote this blog:
http://www.twickenhamvets.com/rabbit-dental-problems-part-1-malocclusion-cheek-teeth/
You have been left with a legacy from someone who didn't really care for her properly and you are picking p the pieces. There's no shame to you and she's very lucky to have you caring so deeply for her little soul x
nickybunny1
Mama Doe
Sorry to hear this update on your beautiful Plumps and hope she can be made comfortable again. If you do not feel happy with your vet go to a different rabbit savy vet. Check out the vet reccommendations on Francis Harcourt Brown website who is a top rabbit (now retired) or post in rabbit chat asking for a vet reccommendation to where you are. I'm sure u know all this already. You are doing so much for her and have saved her already. Sending vibes for u both xx
Last edited:
CometLucy195
Alpha Buck
I’m sorry to read that Plumps is struggling again, sending you and her lots of vibes. You were, and Still are, amazing to have taken her on. She’s much better off with you and no-one could be doing more. Hugs xx
joey&boo
Wise Old Thumper
I wish I knew how to support you better with Plumpkin. I do get the impression that many rabbit care givers do find their feet in managing re-occurring dental issues & it becomes less daunting in time. Big apologies if you've said but did Plumpkin have x rays when she had her dentals? I think these would be really useful in getting a better prognosis for Plumpkin. As I understand it in some dental conditions where there are tooth root problems , teeth can eventually stop growing. This isn't necessarily as horrendous as it sounds. Frances Harcourt-Brown (above mentioned retired specialist) did a few lectures for bunny owners & a lot of it was diet & dentistry). I'll try & find my notes again. Quite a few RU members were there - I'm hoping they can chip in. I'm sure Frances said that some dental buns live their lives feeding off the food we normally restrict (nuggets,grated pear & carrots) & whilst its not ideal it IS ok in these circumstances. Plumpkin gets forage & fibrafirst which I view as positive. I honestly feel as though grass & hay will never be viable options for her. More types of forage would probably be the best way forward. If you were to get just one lot of xrays you could ask your vet to run these past a specialist if he is not confident reading them himself
Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
With regards to her last Dental, please can you remind me if skull radiographs were taken ? If so what were the findings regarding her tooth roots and the general 'bone health' of her jaw ?
MightyMax
Banned
Yes I do agree with this
And if the teeth have indeed stopped growing, then so long as you can keep the gut in good order (with fibre) then tooth wear doesn't become an issue. I've found using a food processor to grind down food so as to be eaten works well - yes, even with grass and forage!I also agree that a set of X-rays (which you may well have already done) would be a good idea for the vet, and also for a second opinion if necessary. Sorry if you've already done all this
Thank you so much everyone for your support, advice and kind words. As a summarised response to what everyone has said:
We have not had her mouth x-rayed - this was never something brought up or suggested by the three different vets she has seen at all, which seems really bad given how many of you think this should be a given (and it makes sense to me completely)
As mentioned above, over the course of two operations and a multitude of checkups, we have seen three different vets.
The first vet we ever saw with her, a younger guy, thought that her mouth wasn't bad at all and told me we could wait up to a month for a dental because she had just been vaccinated. I ended up taking her back only a few days later because I knew he was wrong - then I saw our regular vet who we usually see for Ham & Bea and our cat - he could see immediately that her mouth was in poor shape and her jaw was disfigured. This is something he worriedly stated without any x-rays - just from looking at her mouth and her jaw from the outside. He then told us that we needed a next day emergency operation, but that it probably wouldn't be him doing it.
The operation was done by the young vet, who quickly changed his tune, describing her mouth as a 'car crash' - he removed two teeth. Then she was on metacam and meds to stimulate her gut. I saw yet another vet for her checkup, who had an attitude with me because of her poor condition - I soon set her straight and told her I had rescued her only weeks previously from awful conditions. It seemed really bad to me that this information had not been passed on, despite having told the other two vets about her backstory in a lot of detail.
3 weeks ish later and I took her back because she seemed to be going downhill again. This time she was operated on by the young female vet, who said she filed down another sharp spur jabbing into her tongue, but that she didn't know if this had grown back since or was never filed by the young male vet in the first place. Which once again does NOT fill me with confidence, because I feel like this information should be logged along the way.
I think about another 3-4 weeks have gone by and she's looking frail again. I'm going to call up first thing on Monday, and ask specifically for the more experienced vet if possible. Out of the three, he fills me with the most confidence. Should I ask him for an x-ray - does it need to be done while she is unconscious?
I don't mind spending the money to make her better at all, but I do WISH that I felt more faith in the vets who are seeing to her. Not once have I been given any advice on diet or aftercare in general. I do feel like because she's 'just a rabbit', they're not as thorough as they would be with a dog or a cat. Maybe I'm just being very cynical, but it does seem that way. Hard to feel positive about it all at this point
We have not had her mouth x-rayed - this was never something brought up or suggested by the three different vets she has seen at all, which seems really bad given how many of you think this should be a given (and it makes sense to me completely)
As mentioned above, over the course of two operations and a multitude of checkups, we have seen three different vets.
The first vet we ever saw with her, a younger guy, thought that her mouth wasn't bad at all and told me we could wait up to a month for a dental because she had just been vaccinated. I ended up taking her back only a few days later because I knew he was wrong - then I saw our regular vet who we usually see for Ham & Bea and our cat - he could see immediately that her mouth was in poor shape and her jaw was disfigured. This is something he worriedly stated without any x-rays - just from looking at her mouth and her jaw from the outside. He then told us that we needed a next day emergency operation, but that it probably wouldn't be him doing it.
The operation was done by the young vet, who quickly changed his tune, describing her mouth as a 'car crash' - he removed two teeth. Then she was on metacam and meds to stimulate her gut. I saw yet another vet for her checkup, who had an attitude with me because of her poor condition - I soon set her straight and told her I had rescued her only weeks previously from awful conditions. It seemed really bad to me that this information had not been passed on, despite having told the other two vets about her backstory in a lot of detail.
3 weeks ish later and I took her back because she seemed to be going downhill again. This time she was operated on by the young female vet, who said she filed down another sharp spur jabbing into her tongue, but that she didn't know if this had grown back since or was never filed by the young male vet in the first place. Which once again does NOT fill me with confidence, because I feel like this information should be logged along the way.
I think about another 3-4 weeks have gone by and she's looking frail again. I'm going to call up first thing on Monday, and ask specifically for the more experienced vet if possible. Out of the three, he fills me with the most confidence. Should I ask him for an x-ray - does it need to be done while she is unconscious?
I don't mind spending the money to make her better at all, but I do WISH that I felt more faith in the vets who are seeing to her. Not once have I been given any advice on diet or aftercare in general. I do feel like because she's 'just a rabbit', they're not as thorough as they would be with a dog or a cat. Maybe I'm just being very cynical, but it does seem that way. Hard to feel positive about it all at this point
Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
Thank you so much everyone for your support, advice and kind words. As a summarised response to what everyone has said:
We have not had her mouth x-rayed - this was never something brought up or suggested by the three different vets she has seen at all, which seems really bad given how many of you think this should be a given (and it makes sense to me completely)
As mentioned above, over the course of two operations and a multitude of checkups, we have seen three different vets.
The first vet we ever saw with her, a younger guy, thought that her mouth wasn't bad at all and told me we could wait up to a month for a dental because she had just been vaccinated. I ended up taking her back only a few days later because I knew he was wrong - then I saw our regular vet who we usually see for Ham & Bea and our cat - he could see immediately that her mouth was in poor shape and her jaw was disfigured. This is something he worriedly stated without any x-rays - just from looking at her mouth and her jaw from the outside. He then told us that we needed a next day emergency operation, but that it probably wouldn't be him doing it.
The operation was done by the young vet, who quickly changed his tune, describing her mouth as a 'car crash' - he removed two teeth. Then she was on metacam and meds to stimulate her gut. I saw yet another vet for her checkup, who had an attitude with me because of her poor condition - I soon set her straight and told her I had rescued her only weeks previously from awful conditions. It seemed really bad to me that this information had not been passed on, despite having told the other two vets about her backstory in a lot of detail.
3 weeks ish later and I took her back because she seemed to be going downhill again. This time she was operated on by the young female vet, who said she filed down another sharp spur jabbing into her tongue, but that she didn't know if this had grown back since or was never filed by the young male vet in the first place. Which once again does NOT fill me with confidence, because I feel like this information should be logged along the way.
I think about another 3-4 weeks have gone by and she's looking frail again. I'm going to call up first thing on Monday, and ask specifically for the more experienced vet if possible. Out of the three, he fills me with the most confidence. Should I ask him for an x-ray - does it need to be done while she is unconscious?
I don't mind spending the money to make her better at all, but I do WISH that I felt more faith in the vets who are seeing to her. Not once have I been given any advice on diet or aftercare in general. I do feel like because she's 'just a rabbit', they're not as thorough as they would be with a dog or a cat. Maybe I'm just being very cynical, but it does seem that way. Hard to feel positive about it all at this point
Skull radiographs have to be done under GA. Given what you have said about your doubts about the Vets you are currently consulting have you considered going elsewhere or requesting that your current Vets refer Plumpkin to a Specialist.
As her teeth sound to be in a real mess I would not be surprised if Xrays revealed some issues with tooth roots. Is her jaw line lumpy to feel ?
Has Plumpkin been on antibiotics at all ?
You may have already seen these links, but I'll post them again just incase :
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/685f/6295965e01a2b2bf90b744f9c068d43bfae8.pdf
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Differential/Rabbit_dentistry.pdf
https://www.vetstream.com/treat/lapis/freeform/dental-malocclusion-overgrowth
Finally, this image shows what sort of problems can be identified from skull xrays
MightyMax
Banned
Thank you so much everyone for your support, advice and kind words. As a summarised response to what everyone has said:
We have not had her mouth x-rayed - this was never something brought up or suggested by the three different vets she has seen at all, which seems really bad given how many of you think this should be a given (and it makes sense to me completely)
As mentioned above, over the course of two operations and a multitude of checkups, we have seen three different vets.
The first vet we ever saw with her, a younger guy, thought that her mouth wasn't bad at all and told me we could wait up to a month for a dental because she had just been vaccinated. I ended up taking her back only a few days later because I knew he was wrong - then I saw our regular vet who we usually see for Ham & Bea and our cat - he could see immediately that her mouth was in poor shape and her jaw was disfigured. This is something he worriedly stated without any x-rays - just from looking at her mouth and her jaw from the outside. He then told us that we needed a next day emergency operation, but that it probably wouldn't be him doing it.
The operation was done by the young vet, who quickly changed his tune, describing her mouth as a 'car crash' - he removed two teeth. Then she was on metacam and meds to stimulate her gut. I saw yet another vet for her checkup, who had an attitude with me because of her poor condition - I soon set her straight and told her I had rescued her only weeks previously from awful conditions. It seemed really bad to me that this information had not been passed on, despite having told the other two vets about her backstory in a lot of detail.
3 weeks ish later and I took her back because she seemed to be going downhill again. This time she was operated on by the young female vet, who said she filed down another sharp spur jabbing into her tongue, but that she didn't know if this had grown back since or was never filed by the young male vet in the first place. Which once again does NOT fill me with confidence, because I feel like this information should be logged along the way.
I think about another 3-4 weeks have gone by and she's looking frail again. I'm going to call up first thing on Monday, and ask specifically for the more experienced vet if possible. Out of the three, he fills me with the most confidence. Should I ask him for an x-ray - does it need to be done while she is unconscious?
I don't mind spending the money to make her better at all, but I do WISH that I felt more faith in the vets who are seeing to her. Not once have I been given any advice on diet or aftercare in general. I do feel like because she's 'just a rabbit', they're not as thorough as they would be with a dog or a cat. Maybe I'm just being very cynical, but it does seem that way. Hard to feel positive about it all at this point
I am sorry that in addition to all her problems, you've had an ongoing saga with vets. They should support you, but in fairness to them, they can only go on what is evident to them at the time. I have had three different vets say three different things concerning the same rabbit so it happens probably more than we think.
I tend to find a vet I can trust and stick with that one. I would ask the the experienced vet and if at all possible, just stick to the one vet and make notes of what he says and what he does.
I am surprised that an X-ray wasn't done before the operation on her jaw - have you asked and been told that no X-ray was ever done of her skull? Sadly she would need sedating for skull radiographs. This doesn't mean a full blown GA, but there will be a bit of recovery time. Let your experienced vet decide if it's worth putting her through this at this point.
I don't know whether consulting another vet is an option for you - maybe choices are limited? I have travelled 2/3 hours (6 hour round trip) when needs be to see a specialist. Not something to be undertaken lightly and may not be possible for you, but it certainly can solve a few issues all at once.
Good luck xx
I'll have to look and see if there are any rabbit specialists in my area. Unfortunately trying another practice isn't a viable option for me unless absolutely necessary - I haven't learnt to drive yet, and whilst it is something I'm saving up for and want to achieve by the end of the year, it isn't going to happen overnight My current practice is within 10 - 15 minutes walking distance.
Whenever I call up to book an appointment I'm never even told by the receptionist who I'm going to see - I guess it depends who is there on the day. It's a very small practice, so usually there will only be one vet and one receptionist in at a time. If it's a matter of urgency (which it always has been with Plumpkin) I can't really wait to see my preferred vet if you see what I mean.
If x-rays were taken, it isn't something I've been informed of. So I'm going to assume not.
Jack's Jane, she has been on antibiotics straight after her first operation, but not since then. I'll have to give her jaw a feel and see if it's lumpy. Such a worry indeed
My current practice is within 10 - 15 minutes walking distance.Whenever I call up to book an appointment I'm never even told by the receptionist who I'm going to see - I guess it depends who is there on the day. It's a very small practice, so usually there will only be one vet and one receptionist in at a time. If it's a matter of urgency (which it always has been with Plumpkin) I can't really wait to see my preferred vet if you see what I mean.
If x-rays were taken, it isn't something I've been informed of. So I'm going to assume not.
Jack's Jane, she has been on antibiotics straight after her first operation, but not since then. I'll have to give her jaw a feel and see if it's lumpy. Such a worry indeed
I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but I think I might bring up spaying Plumpkin when I take her to the vet tomorrow. I've moved her the closest she's ever been to Ham & Bea this evening because she just seemed so depressed, and honestly this is the most active and alive I've ever seen her
Rabbits are of course social creatures, and Beatrice & Hamilton's moods both inproved so much after they were bonded - Beatrice went from being timid to outgoing and Ham from frustrated to really relaxed.
Hamilton also learnt that hay was edible from Beatrice, so whilst being with other bunnies may not be a miracle cure for Plumpkin, it could encourage her to have a better appetite.
What does everyone think?
Rabbits are of course social creatures, and Beatrice & Hamilton's moods both inproved so much after they were bonded - Beatrice went from being timid to outgoing and Ham from frustrated to really relaxed.
Hamilton also learnt that hay was edible from Beatrice, so whilst being with other bunnies may not be a miracle cure for Plumpkin, it could encourage her to have a better appetite.
What does everyone think?
