Spenser's hay crisis - update in Stories and Photos!

[susie bun]

I am concerned to find that Spenser has eaten virtually no hay overnight. He seemed to like P@H Timothy hay, but the piles I put out yesterday have not diminished at all. He gets a sprinkling of readigrass daily, and does eat that. I've cut his pellets back slightly, but am reluctant to do this as it is getting colder and he lives outside. Also, if he gets less pellets but doesn't eat more hay, surely this will make him even more liable to have problems with his teeth. I tried the sample pack from The Hay Experts, and bought a big bag of the oat hay he seemed to favour, but he immediately went off it. He does seem healthy, so I'm wondering if I should just accept his resistance to hay and give him a few more pellets. :?

 

[GrahamL]

I am concerned to find that Spenser has eaten virtually no hay overnight. He seemed to like P@H Timothy hay, but the piles I put out yesterday have not diminished at all. He gets a sprinkling of readigrass daily, and does eat that. I've cut his pellets back slightly, but am reluctant to do this as it is getting colder and he lives outside. Also, if he gets less pellets but doesn't eat more hay, surely this will make him even more liable to have problems with his teeth. I tried the sample pack from The Hay Experts, and bought a big bag of the oat hay he seemed to favour, but he immediately went off it. He does seem healthy, so I'm wondering if I should just accept his resistance to hay and give him a few more pellets. :?

How many pellets does he have a day Susie?

I know you have some problems with your mum thinking he needs more?

 

[KarenM]

Also, if he gets less pellets but doesn't eat more hay, surely this will make him even more liable to have problems with his teeth.

Eating pellets doesn't use the same grinding action on the teeth as chewing hay does though, so eating less pellets wouldn't cause dental problems.

Does he eat much grass? That helps with teeth and I always count it as part of their day's 'hay' consumption when trying to judge if they've eaten enough.

Have you tried him on plain old farm shop hay (assuming you have any nearby). My two are much keener on the long stalky strands from the bale I buy for £5 than the bags of excel, oat hay and whatever else that I spend a fortune on. :roll: :lol:

Sprinkling some dried herbs (or even his pellets) on the hay can encourage foraging and he's more likely to eat some hay while looking for the tastier bits.

 

[susie bun]

How many pellets does he have a day Susie?

I know you have some problems with your mum thinking he needs more?

He gets a small bowl (7cm diametre) half full (maybe a bit more than half) twice a day. Plus a sprinkling (barely covers the bottom of the bowl) about 11pm. The total will not be more than the size of his head, which is what the packet recommends. :?

 

[GrahamL]

Its really difficult isn't it

I went through this with Biscuit, as he was barely eating any hay at all.

The packets suggestions (in my opinion only, to don't take this as gospel) are for bunnies who aren't going to be eating other things, veg, fruit, lots of hay etc.

i had to cut down on pellets *alot* before he would eat any hay at all really. Biscuit has probably half of what Spenser gets a day with a small bowl of veggies also and eats hay so much better.

I'm wondering, if he's simply 'full' and so doesn't want to eat 'boring hay'.

If you see where im coming from?

I'm not trying to tell you what you are doing is wrong, so i really hope you don't take it that way, i just wanted to offer some advice and let you know what I did.

 

[susie bun]

Thanks Karen and Graham. I hadn't thought of dried herbs, but given Spenser's extreme aversion to Excel herbage (as recommended by his [revious owner) he might not be impressed. Anything is worth trying, and perhaps I could mix his readigrass with the hay rather than sprinkling it on top. I don't think I can get farm hay easily, but Spenser was living on a farm temporarily before he came to me ... I wonder which packet hay is most like farm hay? I suspect you're right, Grahma, and that Spenser is too sure of the next tasty nibbles to bother with boring old hay. Need to work on Mum.:roll:

 

[prettylupin]

I agree with Graham above.

The feeding instructions on the packaging are not what is actually in the rabbit's best interests. Pelleted feed was developed for farmed rabbits (fur and meat) so that they they grow and fatten up quickly in their short miserable lives

You also have to remember that it is in the manufacturers interest to give these feeding guidelines as you will then purchase more feed from them if you use it up quickly! It's all about money and not bunny health.

Rabbits ONLY need a tablespoon/egg cup full of pellets ONCE per day unless they are elderly or ill or unable to maintain weight. Fill a bunny up on pellets and they will be too full to eat any hay, not to mention the fact that their teeth will not receive adequate wear and there won't be adequate amounts of large particle fibrous plant material to maintain a good motility - or stretch the bowel walls nicely either - bun is then at risk of dental issues and ileus/stasis and fur blockages as well as an unbalanced caecum from both the poor motility and all the starch/carbohydrates in the pelleted feed. Buns just aren't designed to cope with this amount of carbohydrate from cereal based foods (pellets). They are strict herbivores and really really need lots of lovely fibre in the form of grass/hay.

P@H hay is absolute rubbish - dry and dusty and chopped short. If I offered that to mine they would probably pee on it in disgust! :lol: The best and cheapest solution I can see for you is to find yourself a local farm as suggested with horse quality feed grass hay and get bun some proper locally grown long, green, sweet smelling fresh grass hay. Some garden centres/farm shops will sell this stuff by the bag.
If you have a bit extra to spend then I would try this hay (it's what I use)
http://www.willowwarren.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=trh2 they do a free sample box.

The ONLY way to get a bun with no existing dental issues to eat more hay is to restrict the pellets and offer a really yummy hay. If they are full they simply won't eat hay and will always go for the pellets first as they are like sweeties to buns. My two buns don't have ANY pellets at all and are just fine so don't be afraid of cutting them down (slowly) :wave:

 

[GrahamL]

Thanks Karen and Graham. I hadn't thought of dried herbs, but given Spenser's extreme aversion to Excel herbage (as recommended by his [revious owner) he might not be impressed. Anything is worth trying, and perhaps I could mix his readigrass with the hay rather than sprinkling it on top. I don't think I can get farm hay easily, but Spenser was living on a farm temporarily before he came to me ... I wonder which packet hay is most like farm hay? I suspect you're right, Grahma, and that Spenser is too sure of the next tasty nibbles to bother with boring old hay. Need to work on Mum.:roll:

yeah exactly. a bunny is always going to take pellets over hay, they are so much more nommy! Mixing readigrass with the hay is a great idea, he'll get some hay up that way accidentally almost, like Karen says.

It sounds like Spenser's had some funny appetite issues and it's going to be a case of re-training him almost to his food.

When i first had Biscuit, we gave him unlimited pellets as recommended by 'the bag' and the garden centre pet people (i know i know!) but he had unlimited hay also, but he barely ate it. I know bunnies <=6 months are sometimes told to have unlimited pellets, but i had to stop it after finding RU.

Does he like any herbs in particular? Biscuit loves dandelion, but won't eat the stuff from the 'herbage' hay packs, which i always find odd, yet if i dry some in the house for a while, he'll eat them gobble gobble! It's odd, isn't it? Maybe mix what he does like in with the hay as Karen says, i think it's going to be trial and error with Spenser, bless him.

Just remember in yourself, you're not doing anything wrong and you care about him so much so don't take it personally, he's just being a fussy little begger

 

[Blackberry & Co]

My boys have been offered all sorts of 'posh' hay....they pee on it.

What they like and eat constantly is the bagged hay from The Range :roll: But they are happy with it and eat loads of it (I go around poking little holes in the corners of the bags so that I can sniff it to find the sweetest smelling bags )

 

[susie bun]

Spenser likes dried dandelion (Burns). I could do the mixing thing with that. I know I really have to be wary of giving too many pellets, but I'm concerned that Spenser will lose weight before he gest the idea of eating more hay. I love him so, so much but to be honest I don't think he's the brightest of rabbits. My only consolation is that I know two rabbits who eat even leds hay than Spenser...

 

[GrahamL]

Spenser likes dried dandelion (Burns). I could do the mixing thing with that. I know I really have to be wary of giving too many pellets, but I'm concerned that Spenser will lose weight before he gest the idea of eating more hay. I love him so, so much but to be honest I don't think he's the brightest of rabbits. My only consolation is that I know two rabbits who eat even leds hay than Spenser...

i really feel for you Susie, i REALLY do. I was exactly as you were, worried he's lose weight, but its amazing how quickly they can pick it up from reading on here. I joined in a period when there were about 10 -15 hay threads a week popping up, so i learnt quite quickly.

From what i've read on here, i wonder if it would be posssible to up his readigrass amount (you say he loves this?) and cut the pellets a little, as it has the same chewing effect that eating hay is (after all, hay and grass, same chewing action) then slowly decrease the reagigrass and increase regular hay.

The sample pack from 'Animal Magic Pet Supplies' is no longer available unfortunately, but they do the packs individually for 50p each

http://www.animalmagicpetsupplies.c...n_GB/?ViewAction=View&ObjectID=8496866&Page=2

Western Timothy hay (we discussed this yesterday i think?) is my pairs new favourite and smells GORGEOUS and they devour it. Might be worth trying?

 

[KarenM]

Sound advice from prettylupin (as always ) :thumb:

I would definitely try to reduce his pellets and carry on with your search for a hay that he will eat. Some pet shops sell unbranded bagged hay and this is often much nicer than the branded stuff as they probably buy it by the bale and bag it themselves.

As already mentioned, try to find something with quite long strands, rather than the short chopped up stuff too - the short stuff always looks like the bits that should be thrown away but they decide to bag it and sell it as rabbit food.

If he likes readigrass, then try to mix that in with the hay rather than feed it separately.

Btw, Alfie became a much better hay eater once Bubbles came to live with us - I don't know whether it was because he followed her example or was just worried that he had competition for his food supply and was trying to eat it before she could. :lol::lol:

 

[prettylupin]

Spenser likes dried dandelion (Burns). I could do the mixing thing with that. I know I really have to be wary of giving too many pellets, but I'm concerned that Spenser will lose weight before he gest the idea of eating more hay. I love him so, so much but to be honest I don't think he's the brightest of rabbits. My only consolation is that I know two rabbits who eat even leds hay than Spenser...

This is why you need to do it gently and encourage him to eat the hay and stay with him and watch him, even offer it to him by hand. I've fostered a bun who had never eaten hay before and we used to feed him a blade at a time from his hay rack... find the blades he liked best and did this over and over again. Sometimes if you tickle their face with a piece of hay they will snatch it off you and start eating it. It's often a question of finding a hay that they like to begin with, after this they become far more experimental and try new things.
If he has good hay on offer and does not have bad teeth then he will not starve himself if you don't feed the pellets... you have to be strong, when he gets hungry he will eat the hay. He might just hold out for a while if he knows you give in you see. If you cut the pellets down slowly at the same time as producing lots of lovely fresh hay... he will be fine.

 

[Blackberry & Co]

Spenser likes dried dandelion (Burns). I could do the mixing thing with that. I know I really have to be wary of giving too many pellets, but I'm concerned that Spenser will lose weight before he gest the idea of eating more hay. I love him so, so much but to be honest I don't think he's the brightest of rabbits. My only consolation is that I know two rabbits who eat even leds hay than Spenser...

Is there any long grass you can pick for him to eat? That's just as good as hay.

My boys have grass growing in their gardens, but they rarely eat that (but if I pick it from their gardens for them they'll eat it - they just don't do self service :roll

 

[prettylupin]

Is there any long grass you can pick for him to eat? That's just as good as hay.

My boys have grass growing in their gardens, but they rarely eat that (but if I pick it from their gardens for them they'll eat it - they just don't do self service :roll

Completely agree. But ONLY if he has had grass before. If not, just a few blades to begin with and build up to a handful over a week to let his tum adjust to it. Grass is equally good as Blackberry says.... if my bun is having a bit of a slow tummy day I pick him a big plate of grass (even though they go out daily) and within half an hour his poops come pouring out! :lol:

 

[prettylupin]

Is there any long grass you can pick for him to eat? That's just as good as hay.

My boys have grass growing in their gardens, but they rarely eat that (but if I pick it from their gardens for them they'll eat it - they just don't do self service :roll

Yours too hey! :lol:

 

[susie bun]

Spenser is used to grass, in fact he is probably missing it as he doesn't get out to the run as much now. I assumed that was why he liked the readigrass so much - just off to do some mixing for him while he takes his morning doze.

 

[susie bun]

I have mixed hay, plantain and dandelion and speread the result over the upper hutch floor. Spenser was much interested in the process, especailly as I decided to sort out his bedroom (toilet) at the same time. I left him munching away, doubtless at all the 'nice' bits. I'm going out for a few hours, and am hopeful the 'carpet' of hay will have diminished by the time I get back. I gave him a smaller portion of pellets this morning, somthing made easier by my parents being on holiday at them moment.

 

[Blackberry & Co]

I have mixed hay, plantain and dandelion and speread the result over the upper hutch floor. Spenser was much interested in the process, especailly as I decided to sort out his bedroom (toilet) at the same time. I left him munching away, doubtless at all the 'nice' bits. I'm going out for a few hours, and am hopeful the 'carpet' of hay will have diminished by the time I get back. I gave him a smaller portion of pellets this morning, somthing made easier by my parents being on holiday at them moment.

My mum was the same before she learnt more about rabbits, now she accepts they have their daily ration, and only get a few extra if they're moulting.

I've got mini lunch boxes (the tiny ones) and at the beginning of the week I fill them up with the measured out rations - that way there's no temptation to sneak any extra

 

[GrahamL]

My mum was the same before she learnt more about rabbits, now she accepts they have their daily ration, and only get a few extra if they're moulting.

I've got mini lunch boxes (the tiny ones) and at the beginning of the week I fill them up with the measured out rations - that way there's no temptation to sneak any extra

I love that idea. BUT how do you stop the bunny running after you into the downstairs cupboard and raiding the 'pellet bag' / the apple twigs/leaves bag and the treats box which he has now learnt he can open... :roll: :lol: