Snoopy has an ear infection/ really bad update :(

[a reader of books]

Gosh, that sounds like a tough decision... I don't have any advice, but I want to send Snoopy lots more vibes. It's good that they at least, surprisingly, didn't see any tooth spurs.

 

[Scrappy's Little Helper]

Thanks very much for the vibes, reader.

It's difficult because my usual approach is to want to go in full throttle with treatment and try out every option on the table.

But I think with an elderly rabbit like Snoopy I have to ask would I be doing this for his benefit or for mine? Is it fair to put him through invasive and stressful procedures that he'll struggle to cope with just because it would make me feel better that I've given him the highest level of treatment possible?

 

[a reader of books]

Thanks very much for the vibes, reader.

It's difficult because my usual approach is to want to go in full throttle with treatment and try out every option on the table.

But I think with an elderly rabbit like Snoopy I have to ask would I be doing this for his benefit or for mine? Is it fair to put him through invasive and stressful procedures that he'll struggle to cope with just because it would make me feel better that I've given him the highest level of treatment possible?

Yeah, that's a hard decision to make... Is he otherwise healthy and doing well? I think that would influence my decision, as if he's an elderly bunny who is already coping with a lot I might lean to no, while if he's otherwise completele fine and not really showing his age I might lean more toward yes. That's just me, though.

 

[joey&boo]

Oh scrappy - I'm sorry it wasn't an easier consult & has left you in a quandary about what to do. Historically I've been terrible at making decisions re: bunny health matters - so many times I've asked if s/he were your rabbit, what would you do? Luckily they've always shared their opinion. Not that I wouldn't like to be more confident deciding for myself.

If there were infection deep in his ear canals is surgery the only thing that could help or can antibiotics potentially resolve it?

 

[Omi]

What a horrid decision to have to make I think if it were me it would depend a lot on how healthy the rabbit was otherwise. What I mean is whether his quality of life apart from the head tilt/possibility of ear infection is good. Are they planning to investigate his teeth further?

I think if it were me I might be tempted to try to get a CT scan done locally if it's possible. My reasoning would be that it could just show that there is no problem with his ear and so the head tilt could be EC. I always prefer to make decisions with as much information as possible and whilst I'm pretty sure I would opt for no surgery in a 9 year old rabbit, I would also like to know what's going on. I guess it would necessitate a GA, so a better examination of his teeth could perhaps also be arranged at the same time.

It's really not an easy decision though.

 

[Pets mum]

Sorry it was a difficult appointment today Scrappy, having to make such decisions is never easy either. Hope you can find the best way forward for Snoopy, sending him more vibes xxx

 

[Scrappy's Little Helper]

Thanks so much for your thoughts everyone. It's really helping me to look at things with a clearer head.


J&B, I'm not sure if surgery is the only viable option for a deep ear infection. The vet did mention rabbits being on long term antibiotics which has kept the infection at bay. But I don't know if that specifically refere to deep infections as it was so hard to catch everything.

I've emailed the specialist setting out my dilemma. I'm hoping we can discuss it in more detail in a less stressful environment. I really hope it will be possible to have the scans done locally. My gut instinct is the same as Omi's in that I feel they need to know exactly what's going on. Plus I feel we need to make absolutely sure there is no issue with the back teeth. That's why my immediate reaction to the vet was to go straight for scans. Then I spent all afternoon doubting myself.

The strange thing is that when my local vet examined him, he could clearly see pus in the left ear. Today both ears were pretty clear. I don't know if that means the baytril worked to some extent (it was only a five day course). Or I might be giving myself false hope that antibiotics alone will magically resolve it. It could well turn out to be EC after all!

I know the decision will ultimately be mine but I'm hoping the specialist will be able to guide me in the right direction.

 

[joey&boo]

I think your plan to talk more with the specialist & CT scan locally if possible is a good one. In case it is EC you could ask if worth doing panacur treatment anyway?
Baytril gets a bad press & always seems to have an "inferior" status. I appreciate that will be born out of peoples experiences & is a consequence of the prescribing cascade but surely it must do the trick from time to time.

I hope you have a good & productive talk. I've spoken to our vet many times in the car park following consults & a few times on the phone & the phone conversations (home to office) have been way better.

Vibes for Snoopy

 

[bunny momma]

The location/extent of infection/inflammation may be good to know, and they can check teeth and possibly swab ear when sedated for ct.
i had head tilt/ear infections-middle/inner-with multiple bunnies over the years with mixed results using abx only.
Two had recurrences that required stronger abx-one lost her battle. Two others,one had baytril, another had a different abx, did not have recurrence. Though it took a few days before any results seen and weeks of abx.
If treating medically ,I would want weeks of abx.
Sending vibes

 

[InspectorMorse]

Personally I would not put a 9 year old Rabbit through invasive ear surgery. It is a brutal operation, even for a young Rabbit. So on that basis I would not get a CT scan done. I would continue treatment on an assumed diagnosis of Otitis Media, even if that meant longterm abx and analgesia.

Whilst a lot of Rabbit surgical procedures are possible that does not mean it is always ethically right to do them. I was in this situation with Inspector Morse, ear Surgery was an option but The Inspector was 8 and also had a heart problem and he was a terrible traveller. He would need to go onto oxygen just to get him to the Surgery.

I am sure that you will do what is in the best interests of Snoopy

 

[InspectorMorse]

To add, re the ‘pus’ in the ear canal. Some less Rabbit savvy Vets think what they are seeing very low down in the outer ear is pus. But Rabbit ear wax that is very deep in the outer ear is white and not yellow/brown so it gets mistaken for pus.

 

[Scrappy's Little Helper]

Thanks so much again everyone. I can't even begin to tell you how much I appreciate your thoughts. I was feeling very upset and overwhelmed yesterday and I'm feeling a lot more rational about things today.

Jane, I'm glad we're on the same page re the surgery. For me it was practically certain that option was off the table. I think it's one of those cases of just because you can, doesn't mean that you should.

Interesting about the ear wax. The specialist said they could see some wax in the ear canal. It's very possible that's actually what my local vet saw. He's new to the practice and a nice man, but I get the impression he's not that rabbit savvy as I did have to nag him a bit to get pain relief for Snoopy.

I think from now on I'm going to get my rabbits treated at the local hospital in Wanstead rather than my usual practice. The newly promoted head vet has a special interest in rabbits so I think she would be a better person to go to in the future. It would be great if she started a recruitment push for more bunny savvy vets.

As I was writing this post, Snoopy has been having a really good munch on the orchard grass hay, which is very positive.

 

[InspectorMorse]

Thanks so much again everyone. I can't even begin to tell you how much I appreciate your thoughts. I was feeling very upset and overwhelmed yesterday and I'm feeling a lot more rational about things today.

Jane, I'm glad we're on the same page re the surgery. For me it was practically certain that option was off the table. I think it's one of those cases of just because you can, doesn't mean that you should.

Interesting about the ear wax. The specialist said they could see some wax in the ear canal. It's very possible that's actually what my local vet saw. He's new to the practice and a nice man, but I get the impression he's not that rabbit savvy as I did have to nag him a bit to get pain relief for Snoopy.

I think from now on I'm going to get my rabbits treated at the local hospital in Wanstead rather than my usual practice. The newly promoted head vet has a special interest in rabbits so I think she would be a better person to go to in the future. It would be great if she started a recruitment push for more bunny savvy vets.

As I was writing this post, Snoopy has been having a really good munch on the orchard grass hay, which is very positive.

My Rabbits all love Hop to Forage Timothy and Orchard Grass Hay :thumb:

https://www.hoptoforage.co.uk/product-page/4x-micro-timothy-rye-grass-blended-hay-bale

 

[Scrappy's Little Helper]

Ok, I've just heard back from the specialist. She is reluctant to just go ahead and prescribe a long course of antibiotics without having a scan done to see exactly what's going on.

However she said she is happy for me to have it done locally. The only issue is that are apparently some technical differences between scanners so the interpretation may not be that straightforward, but they will do their best.

I'm going to get in touch with the local hospital now to see if they're happy to do the scan and send the results on.

This seems like the best solution and hopefully we can get some answers. It should also settle my nagging worries about his teeth as I can't believe that there won't be issues somewhere after his hay consumption went down.

 

[InspectorMorse]

Ok, I've just heard back from the specialist. She is reluctant to just go ahead and prescribe a long course of antibiotics without having a scan done to see exactly what's going on.

However she said she is happy for me to have it done locally. The only issue is that are apparently some technical differences between scanners so the interpretation may not be that straightforward, but they will do their best.

I'm going to get in touch with the local hospital now to see if they're happy to do the scan and send the results on.

This seems like the best solution and hopefully we can get some answers. It should also settle my nagging worries about his teeth as I can't believe that there won't be issues somewhere after his hay consumption went down.

I hope that the scan can be arranged without any problems

 

[Omi]

I agree this sounds like the best solution and I hope that it all goes smoothly. Hopefully it can be arranged to be done soon.

 

[joey&boo]

Rudey ate next to no hay (& not much grass) for about a year & his teeth always seemed fine at his many check-ups so I don't think its inevitable . Unless he has a dental history.

i can understand why the specialist would want evidence prior to long term prescribing of anti-biotics. I shall have everything crossed for Snoopy

 

[CarelessSquid07]

Sending lots of vibes for Snoopy x

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

 

[bunny momma]

Sending lots of vibes .

 

[Scrappy's Little Helper]

Rudey ate next to no hay (& not much grass) for about a year & his teeth always seemed fine at his many check-ups so I don't think its inevitable . Unless he has a dental history.

i can understand why the specialist would want evidence prior to long term prescribing of anti-biotics. I shall have everything crossed for Snoopy

Oh wow, Rudey did really well not to have teeth issues despite not eating much hay or grass. Snoopy has always passed his dental checks with flying colours so hopefully the fact he's never had teeth issues before might work in his favour.

Thanks again for the vibes everyone xx