cutting out pellets. need a low calicum diet

[Steph_fuzzy239]

Hi everyone :wave:

earlier this week I had a problem with my Rabbit coco having problems with her urine causing her to wee on herself (slight urine scald) and for it to be a bit thicker/smellier then normal. she has been brought inside and is doing better. when i took her to the vets she put her on some antibiotics and asked for a urine sample. i got the results back yesterday and there is no infection however she has more calcium in it then normal- therefore making her urine stronger and smellier. i've been advised to cut out her pellets completely! well miss coco will not be impressed!! :lol: however what can i offer her instead that low calcium?s

my thoughts are to carry on giving her plently of hay (which is a given)
fresh greens....... which do people think are best? she loves spring greens and broccoli?
what about ready grass?
and dry herbs etc?

any advice would be great

 

[Hugo's There]

There are some low calcium pellets especially for urine problems. Can't remember the name now but we bought them from the hay experts about a year ago x

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[Hugo's There]

Spring green and broccoli are both quite high in calcium as are herbs like parsley

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[nessar]

You'll want to limit readigrass, it is higher in calcium than hay, although not higher than many vegetables.

Spring greens and broccoli are both out, I'm afraid. Both are high in calcium.

The best foods would be ones that are natural forage-type things - herbs, bramble leaves, apple/willow twigs, hawthorne etc. One of the herbs, either parsley or coriander (can never remember which) is high in calcium, but the others are fine and easy to get in supermarkets. The rest you would need to forage for or buy dried from pet shops/online.

Have you and your vet considered a low-calcium pellet instead? http://www.supremepetfoodsus.com/product/vetcareplus-urinary-tract-health-formula/

 

[Steph_fuzzy239]

Spring green and broccoli are both quite high in calcium as are herbs like parsley

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oh nuts!!! i probs haven't been helping at all!! she bloomin loves em as well.

 

[Bunny Buddy]

Low calcium pellets are actually higher in calcium than the high calcium veg. When Artie was on his low calcium diet (because of bladder sludge and kidney stones) I was also advised to cut out pellets altogether and to give fresh rather than dried food as fluid intake is more important than limiting calcium per se.

Spring greens is a moderate level of calcium veg and was the one I gave most. Fresh grass if the very best food you can offer. Some of the other forage mentioned such as bramble leaves are good but there's a lot less information on calcium content of such foods rather then the commercially grown veg/herbs which does make choosing foods more difficult!

 

[Hugo's There]

I was told not to feed any thing green. Especially spring green!

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[Steph_fuzzy239]

You'll want to limit readigrass, it is higher in calcium than hay, although not higher than many vegetables.

Spring greens and broccoli are both out, I'm afraid. Both are high in calcium.

The best foods would be ones that are natural forage-type things - herbs, bramble leaves, apple/willow twigs, hawthorne etc. One of the herbs, either parsley or coriander (can never remember which) is high in calcium, but the others are fine and easy to get in supermarkets. The rest you would need to forage for or buy dried from pet shops/online.

Have you and your vet considered a low-calcium pellet instead? http://www.supremepetfoodsus.com/product/vetcareplus-urinary-tract-health-formula/

ok that is something that i will look into and disscuss with my vet. what about the natural forage packs that you can by from pets at home? eg the dandelion feast (think its by woodlands) would that be ok? she gets a small handful of redigrass!?

 

[SJH]

My bridge bun did well on the following with this problem:

Chicory; celery; a bit of carrot; fennel; a bit of apple are all good.

Timothy hay and oxbow Timothy hay based pellets.

It's a difficult one though because "less calcium in" is not necessarily the answer given they can leach calcium from their bones.




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[Steph_fuzzy239]

some conflicting views here!!

 

[SJH]

some conflicting views here!!

I'm not sure they are really!

I agree broccoli and spring greens are out.

Another good one if your bun can tolerate it (can be gassy) is cauliflower.

The forage idea is a good one too.

I'm afraid dandelion leaves are high calcium foods though.


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[SJH]

I was told not to feed any thing green. Especially spring green!

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Yes, I think "dark green" is a good rule of thumb. Paler veg is good. Chicory and celery (esp leaves) are about as low calcium as veg gets. Carrot and cauliflower are also good too.


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[Bunny Buddy]

I'm not sure they are really!

I agree broccoli and spring greens are out.

Another good one if your bun can tolerate it (can be gassy) is cauliflower.

The forage idea is a good one too.

I'm afraid dandelion leaves are high calcium foods though.


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But that's where the views conflict! I was advised by my vet that spring greens were a good standard green food to give and others have been advised/read that they are not.

It's a minefield. I remember when Artie first went on his low calcium diet about 5 years ago some of the lists people found said that kale was low calcium and spring greens high ... some places spring greens had 3x the amount of calcium in than kale... look at another list and kale was double the calcium of spring greens. I was given a pretty detailed list of dos and don't from my vet and it emphasised that fluid intake was the most important factor. She has also said to me (specifically in relation to the 5 years or so she saw Artie regularly) that she wasn't entirely convinced that a low calcium diet made any difference in all cases anyway, but you might as well go with it in case it does help.

 

[Hugo's There]

some conflicting views here!!

Not really.

I know low calcium pellets Will have higher calcium than veg but you said she might struggle without pellets so was just letting you know there was an alternative

Spring green is higher than broccoli in calcium by weight but of course a spring green leaf ways much less than a piece of broccoli

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[nessar]

Sorry to complicate things further, but can I ask what and the quantities you feed now? I am just wondering whether the problem may be that she has a high calcium diet, especially as you said her favourites are spring greens and broccoli. If that was the issue, then the problem may be able to be solved with a diet that has just normal or slightly low levels of calcium in it, rather than doing such a drastic change? After all, rabbits do need a certain amount of calcium for their teeth and bones, hence the levels found in pellets.

If this was the case, a small amount of low calcium pellets and some low-calcium veg may be better for her than completely changing everything and ending up with a diet maybe a bit low in calcium.

 

[Hugo's There]

Sorry to complicate things further, but can I ask what and the quantities you feed now? I am just wondering whether the problem may be that she has a high calcium diet, especially as you said her favourites are spring greens and broccoli. If that was the issue, then the problem may be able to be solved with a diet that has just normal or slightly low levels of calcium in it, rather than doing such a drastic change? After all, rabbits do need a certain amount of calcium for their teeth and bones, hence the levels found in pellets.

If this was the case, a small amount of low calcium pellets and some low-calcium veg may be better for her than completely changing everything and ending up with a diet maybe a bit low in calcium.

I completely agree with all of that

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[SJH]

But that's where the views conflict! I was advised by my vet that spring greens were a good standard green food to give and others have been advised/read that they are not.

It's a minefield. I remember when Artie first went on his low calcium diet about 5 years ago some of the lists people found said that kale was low calcium and spring greens high ... some places spring greens had 3x the amount of calcium in than kale... look at another list and kale was double the calcium of spring greens. I was given a pretty detailed list of dos and don't from my vet and it emphasised that fluid intake was the most important factor. She has also said to me (specifically in relation to the 5 years or so she saw Artie regularly) that she wasn't entirely convinced that a low calcium diet made any difference in all cases anyway, but you might as well go with it in case it does help.

I'm only really going on the research I did. Which was a lot! I also got it to work. It's fairly much trial and error but there are good lists of veg/calcium content online.


I should add, I agree it's a really difficult problem to manage and I agree that it isn't always dietary either.

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[Bunny Buddy]

I'm only really going on the research I did. Which was a lot! I also got it to work. It's fairly much trial and error but there are good lists of veg/calcium content online.

But I haven't said you are wrong! I have a different view, based also on my extensive research/advice - I simply agreed with the OP that the views conflict.

I say spring greens are good to feed, others have said they are not but that doesn't mean I'm saying your wrong just that I've come to different conclusions from my research on it. Most of the stuff I read on the 'Net was conflicting so I just went with what my vet advised as it was the most logical course for me to take.

The main problem with the good lists of veg/calcium content online is which ones do you believe? The more you read the more in knots you get at they don't match, or anything like.

The one here for example:

http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/resources/content/info-sheets/calcium.htm

This gives spring greens as really high but most of the charts I found gave kale as higher. Spring greens are basically cabbage so why is 'cabbage' so much lower?

 

[SJH]

But I haven't said you are wrong! I have a different view, based also on my extensive research/advice - I simply agreed with the OP that the views conflict.

I say spring greens are good to feed, others have said they are not but that doesn't mean I'm saying your wrong just that I've come to different conclusions from my research on it. Most of the stuff I read on the 'Net was conflicting so I just went with what my vet advised as it was the most logical course for me to take.

The main problem with the good lists of veg/calcium content online is which ones do you believe? The more you read the more in knots you get at they don't match, or anything like.

The one here for example:

http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/resources/content/info-sheets/calcium.htm

This gives spring greens as really high but most of the charts I found gave kale as higher. Spring greens are basically cabbage so why is 'cabbage' so much lower?

I don't recall saying anyone was wrong! I don't recall saying there is one answer either because we all agree there isn't.

I was trying to help on the basis of what I got to work. Sorry for trying to be helpful or if it has upset you. As I've pointed out it is really difficult problem and, as I say, total trial and error which is not always dietary.

I used this link as my guide. Just be careful of the differing names of veg. What I call chicory is listed as endive.
http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-5/calcium.html



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[Steph_fuzzy239]

Hi guys

thank you all for your input. i think what i will do for now is cut out the pellets as my vet has advised. Will also stop giving her spring greens and broccoli but i will introduce some celery into her diet, give her forage foods... the woodlands also so a plantain/clover mix and a blackcurrent leaf and apple tree twigs? how does that sound? one handful of redigrass and i will make sure she has plenty of hay etc. i'll continue to give her carrot which she gets as a very occasional treat (i usually get some from my mum when she does a sunday dinner when i've been invited round!) and i'll juts see how she goes really.