Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
I'm glad he's a bit more stable today. It may be counterproductive to keep trying to syringe the CC into him as it probably stresses him out. So I think you are doing the right thing in giving him a break from it.
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Congestive Heart Failure (so scared for my little dude) :(
- Thread starter Spikethebunny
- Start date
I'm glad he's a bit more stable today. It may be counterproductive to keep trying to syringe the CC into him as it probably stresses him out. So I think you are doing the right thing in giving him a break from it.
MightyMax
Banned
Yes I have often advised porridge oats, which rabbits often like
Some people say it's not a good idea, but there is much to recommend them. They are palatable and calorific. I always feed them dry - just a pinch at either end of the day. But if you're worried about them blocking the intestine (which I have never found to be the case in over 20+ years) then sprinkle some water on them.A few sunflower seeds are also good for weight gain and vitamin E (beneficial for the heart).
I wouldn't push the critical care if he likes his pellets.
Spikethebunny
Young Bun
I just gave Spike a few porridge oats soaked in water (just in case). Not many, because I want to see how he does with them.
I do wish he would eat more hay, since he is refusing the critical care. But for now, I shall try to be satisfied he has something in his tummy.
He really loses his balance on the furosemide, which concerns me. Some days are worse than others. Today, I'm finding he falls just trying to turn around.
I do wish he would eat more hay, since he is refusing the critical care. But for now, I shall try to be satisfied he has something in his tummy.
He really loses his balance on the furosemide, which concerns me. Some days are worse than others. Today, I'm finding he falls just trying to turn around.
MightyMax
Banned
I just gave Spike a few porridge oats soaked in water (just in case). Not many, because I want to see how he does with them.
I do wish he would eat more hay, since he is refusing the critical care. But for now, I shall try to be satisfied he has something in his tummy.
He really loses his balance on the furosemide, which concerns me. Some days are worse than others. Today, I'm finding he falls just trying to turn around.
Do you have any readigrass (freeze dried grass) or fresh picked grass?
I will PM you regarding the symptoms you report
Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
I just gave Spike a few porridge oats soaked in water (just in case). Not many, because I want to see how he does with them.
I do wish he would eat more hay, since he is refusing the critical care. But for now, I shall try to be satisfied he has something in his tummy.
He really loses his balance on the furosemide, which concerns me. Some days are worse than others. Today, I'm finding he falls just trying to turn around.
Can you give the Vet a call about Spike's loss of balance. One of the possible side effects of loop diuretics such as Frusemide is ototoxicity. This may be more likely to occur if there is any renal impairment.
http://vestibular.org/ototoxicity
The Vet may want to review the dose you are giving Spike.
Spikethebunny
Young Bun
Yes, I have actually mentioned it and they said they are more concerned about his breathing right now (they said we have to weight the good of the drug versus the side effects). They are closed today, but I will bring it up again with them tomorrow (as well as an ACE inhibitor).
He's back to just being tired and blah. I was so happy when he seemed to have his energy and appetite back this morning. I got a few porridge oats soaked in water and a few more pellets in him, and hubby managed to get some pedialyte/water mixture into him to try to replenish is lost electrolytes from the furosemide.
I just feel awful looking at him. I'm not sure if I'm doing anything right here. He is supposed to go back to the vet later this week for a check up, and looking at him now, I don't know if I'll be bringing him home. I don't even know how I'll make that decision or if I can. I've never had to do that before. Spike is the first pet I've ever owned on my own, and I've had him nine years. I feel like that decision means I've given up on him...
Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
Not at all. When and if 'the decision' needs to be made it will be done with Spike's needs as a priority. It is the final caring and compassionate thing we can do for a Pet who's illness cannot be cured and for whom treatment is no longer helping. It is never easy to do and I have had to do it more times than I care to remember. But because we love our Pets we always try to do what is best for them. Just as you have always done for Spike and just how you always will do. Letting a terminally ill Pet go is not 'giving up on them' it is giving them release from suffering when no amount of treatment can do so.
Hopefully Spike will have another better episode later. With Heart Failure the Rabbit can be very up and down with regards to how tired they feel. Their appetite can fluctuate alot too.
MightyMax
Banned
I agree with your vet, his breathing is far more of a concern. Other side effects with furosemide are very rare.
I am so sorry you feel like you have to make the decision, but whatever you do will be the right thing. Nine years is a good long time, and taking into account your very good vet's feelings, I would follow your instinct on this one.
Sadly with heart failure, it's often a downhill progression, and unless he thrived on alternate meds like the ACE inhibitor I mentioned, he may well struggle.
I am glad he ate a few porridge oats! You are certainly doing your best for Spike and I'm sure he knows it
Spikethebunny
Young Bun
I definitely want to at least try the ACE inhibitor to see if it makes any difference. But his breathing is pretty rough today, and his furosemide has been almost doubled (he gets it every six hours instead of twelve as per his vet). It just doesn't seem to be working for him.
The worst is the vet of his I love is on holiday and isn't back until later this week. The one taking her place is somewhat knowledgable but has zero bedside manner. She upset me and my hubby very much last time (and it isn't just us. People have mentioned it on those vet rating websites). I don't feel like she is a positive influence on his recovery. He is supposed to see his regular (AMAZING) vet on Thursday. I am praying he can hold out that long.
The worst is the vet of his I love is on holiday and isn't back until later this week. The one taking her place is somewhat knowledgable but has zero bedside manner. She upset me and my hubby very much last time (and it isn't just us. People have mentioned it on those vet rating websites). I don't feel like she is a positive influence on his recovery. He is supposed to see his regular (AMAZING) vet on Thursday. I am praying he can hold out that long.
I don't have any advice, but want to send lots of vibes. I have experienced a vet with zero bedside manner myself and it is awful, especially when you have a very ill pet It addis additional upset
You are doing your best for Spike, and if you have to make the decision, you definitely won't be giving up on him, you will be acting in his best interests.
Hugs xx
It addis additional upset You are doing your best for Spike, and if you have to make the decision, you definitely won't be giving up on him, you will be acting in his best interests.
Hugs xx
MightyMax
Banned
I definitely want to at least try the ACE inhibitor to see if it makes any difference. But his breathing is pretty rough today, and his furosemide has been almost doubled (he gets it every six hours instead of twelve as per his vet). It just doesn't seem to be working for him.
The worst is the vet of his I love is on holiday and isn't back until later this week. The one taking her place is somewhat knowledgable but has zero bedside manner. She upset me and my hubby very much last time (and it isn't just us. People have mentioned it on those vet rating websites). I don't feel like she is a positive influence on his recovery. He is supposed to see his regular (AMAZING) vet on Thursday. I am praying he can hold out that long.
Well for heart failure, furosemide is only part of the treatment regime. He really needs meds to take the strain of pumping off his poor little heart. Is it still hot and humid with you?
Praying that you can at least get something to make him more comfortable, perhaps give him a chance, and you both a breathing space in which to make a decision regarding his future.
Sending you loads of hugs and vibes xx
Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
I definitely want to at least try the ACE inhibitor to see if it makes any difference. But his breathing is pretty rough today, and his furosemide has been almost doubled (he gets it every six hours instead of twelve as per his vet). It just doesn't seem to be working for him.
The worst is the vet of his I love is on holiday and isn't back until later this week. The one taking her place is somewhat knowledgable but has zero bedside manner. She upset me and my hubby very much last time (and it isn't just us. People have mentioned it on those vet rating websites). I don't feel like she is a positive influence on his recovery. He is supposed to see his regular (AMAZING) vet on Thursday. I am praying he can hold out that long.
As I said in a previous post, your care and comfort is as important to Spike as any medication at this stage. One of the drugs I mentioned, the Benazepril, is an ACE inhibitor but the one thing to bear in mind is that all ACE inhibitors can significantly lower a Rabbits blood pressure and if being given for the first time to a critically ill Rabbit the Vet may want to be able to regularly monitor the BP. A rapid/severe drop in BP would obviously be a big problem. So if the Vet were to insist that Spike be admitted to get him onto an ACE inhibitor please dont think that the Vet is being awkward.
How is Spike doing now ?
Spikethebunny
Young Bun
Spike hadn't moved from the same spot in over 6 hours, and all night was falling over. Last night, we celebrated the victory of him dining on an entire dinner of lettuce (with some crit care sprinkled on), pellets, and oats, thinking that would give him strength. This morning, he still hadn't moved, and any poops we saw were tiny.
When he came running to see me just now (and get his good morning pellet), he fell over, and now he is not getting up. He seems to want to try, but can't. We aren't sure if he broke something or is just weak. We are just waiting for his vet to open to bring him in. I have given him his metacam dose to help with any pain he might be having. He is sleeping now, and does not look in pain, just looks too tired to stand. We even have him two more pellets and he ate them where he was. He also drank some pedialyte and water from a syringe. Sigh...I don't know if he will be coming back home with us from the vet at this point. I hope like crazy I am wrong. Could it maybe just be an inner ear thing that's treatable, or am I trying to keep too much hope here? I still am not ready to give up on him.
My poor guy. I am heartbroken.
When he came running to see me just now (and get his good morning pellet), he fell over, and now he is not getting up.
He seems to want to try, but can't. We aren't sure if he broke something or is just weak. We are just waiting for his vet to open to bring him in. I have given him his metacam dose to help with any pain he might be having. He is sleeping now, and does not look in pain, just looks too tired to stand. We even have him two more pellets and he ate them where he was. He also drank some pedialyte and water from a syringe. Sigh...I don't know if he will be coming back home with us from the vet at this point. I hope like crazy I am wrong. Could it maybe just be an inner ear thing that's treatable, or am I trying to keep too much hope here? I still am not ready to give up on him.My poor guy. I am heartbroken.
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Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
Spike hadn't moved from the same spot in over 6 hours, and all night was falling over. Last night, we celebrated the victory of him dining on an entire dinner of lettuce (with some crit care sprinkled on), pellets, and oats, thinking that would give him strength. This morning, he still hadn't moved, and any poops we saw were tiny.
When he came running to see me just now (and get his good morning pellet), he fell over, and now he is not getting up.
My poor guy. I am heartbroken.
There are so many possibilities as to what is exactly going on, hopefully the Vet will be able to ascertain exactly what is wrong and if treatment is possible. You are doing all you can to try to help him. I am very sorry that he is so poorly xx
Spikethebunny
Young Bun
I just feel awful waiting for his vet to open to get him help. It's still not open for 2.5 hours, but we are an hour away from an emergency clinic, we don't own a car, and the one time we brought him to emergency, they did not know how to treat rabbits, picked him up wrong, and he actually screamed (worst sound I've ever heard).
His vet is one of the few rabbit savvy vets in the city. We are basically sitting and petting him and keeping him calm, but I feel awful not rushing him somewhere.
Also, when the time comes, how do I pick him up and put him in his carrier without making things worse for him?
His vet is one of the few rabbit savvy vets in the city. We are basically sitting and petting him and keeping him calm, but I feel awful not rushing him somewhere.
Also, when the time comes, how do I pick him up and put him in his carrier without making things worse for him?
Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
Is the carrier a top loading one or a front loading one ?
Staying calm yourself will help him as he will sense if you become very anxious ,although being anxious and upset is perfectly understandable. Just try and hide it from Spike. I would not attempt to syringe feed him or do anything more than just stroke him and talk quietly with him now. The calmer he is before the trip to the Vet the better.
Spikethebunny
Young Bun
His carrier opens both top and side. I can put him in either way.
One of his front paws is splayed sideways very badly and he can't seem to move it.
I feel like this is my fault because he fell trying to come get a pellet from me. I feel awful.
