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Congestive Heart Failure (so scared for my little dude) :(

Spikethebunny

Young Bun
This last month has been one of the most awful months ever. I'm sure anyone who has dealt with sick buns knows the feeling. Sorry if this is long, but I want to give every bit of info I have.

So, Spike is almost ten (as of October). We've known for years he has a heart murmur, but he's always been active and happy, so the vet never saw a reason to pursue further tests.

A month ago, Spike started having soft stools. Not diarrhea. Leaving cecoropes behind. It would only happen at a certain time of day, and the rest of the time, he was normal as could be (as were his poops). He has had a runny eye since October (which we were treating with a drop), but I was pretty sure this confirmed teeth issues. The only reason the vet didn't push the teeth problem is Spike has always been a good hay eater and the vet was concerned about putting him under anesthesia with a murmur at his age.

We tried removing all but hay from Spike's diet (except the vet gave us a bit of critical care for some nutrients). The soft stools never got better. He was put on metacam because the vet noticed he had some arthritis in his back paws, and she thought of his teeth hurt that might help for now.

We brought him back a week ago, because his breathing had gotten quite harsh over the last week. He would rock violently when resting, and would sometimes sit with his paws resting on his hay basket. We honestly thought it was the meds. Cause most of this started around the same time. We thought he was just having a bad reaction.

The vet did some awake X-rays, which revealed Spike's heart is quite enlarged. It is practically touching his sides, and is pushing on his lungs. The vet spotted some fluid on his lungs, too. To make matters worse, even though he had been consuming bags and bags of hay, he had lost a scary amount of weight.

He was put on more critical care, we were told to add some alfalfa hay to his diet, he was changed from metacam to Gabapentin to see if that would stop the runny stools, and he was given a low dose of furosemide twice a day to try to clear his lungs.

I was told to bring him back in a few days to see how the meds are working. We had a different vet this time (my regular vet was on vacation), and her response was much more doom and gloom and she kept bringing up putting him down--which I thought was strange, since he has still been alert, eating with excitement, and otherwise his normal self. She increased the furosemide to .15ml twice a day, but warned me it might only dehydrate him and make things worse. She told us to add some pedialyte to water and syringe it to him a few times a day to try to keep his electrolytes up. We also switched him back to metacam since the soft stools weren't any better without it, and he was not enjoying the Gabapentin (he was terribly drowsy and dizzy and kept stumbling on himself).

Well, up until yesterday, Spike LOOOOVED the critical care. I could put it in a bowl and he'd gobble it up. In fact, he'd thump because I could never make it fast enough. Yesterday, he decided he is plain old sick of it and will just sniff at the bowl and walk away. But he will come running for pellets, is eating lots of hay, and is drinking water, so I don't think it's an appetite thing. In fact, he comes running at mealtime, then looks at me when I put down the crit care. I don't understand why he doesn't like it all of a sudden? I'm so worried he is going to lose too much weight without it.

I guess I need to know if anyone else has had experience with buns with this condition? Any tips? Am I looking at only a few more days with him? Weeks? The vet made it sound like it could be any time. I am heartbroken. He has been my buddy for almost ten years and I can't imagine him not around.

Is there anything I can do (I tried syringe feeding and suck at it. I can't get him steady by myself) to get him to eat his crit care? How do I make sure he is not dehydrated on the furosemide? Is there any other treatment I should talk to my vet about or is all hope truly lost at this stage?

I just don't want him to suffer.
 
Last edited:
This last month has been one of the most awful months ever. I'm sure anyone who has dealt with sick buns knows the feeling. Sorry if this is long, but I want to give every bit of info I have.

So, Spike is almost ten (as of October). We've known for years he has a heart murmur, but he's always been active and happy, so the vet never saw a reason to pursue further tests.

A month ago, Spike started having soft stools. Not diarrhea. Leaving cecoropes behind. It would only happen at a certain time of day, and the rest of the time, he was normal as could be (as were his poops). He has had a runny eye since October (which we were treating with a drop), but I was pretty sure this confirmed teeth issues. The only reason the vet didn't push the teeth problem is Spike has always been a good hay eater and the vet was concerned about putting him under anesthesia with a murmur at his age.

We tried removing all but hay from Spike's diet (except the vet gave us a bit of critical care for some nutrients). The soft stools never got better. He was put on metacam because the vet noticed he had some arthritis in his back paws, and she thought of his teeth hurt that might help for now.

We brought him back a week ago, because his breathing had gotten quite harsh over the last week. He would rock violently when resting, and would sometimes sit with his paws resting on his hay basket. We honestly thought it was the meds. Cause most of this started around the same time. We thought he was just having a bad reaction.

The vet did some awake X-rays, which revealed Spike's heart is quite enlarged. It is practically touching his sides, and is pushing on his lungs. The vet spotted some fluid on his lungs, too. To make matters worse, even though he had been consuming bags and bags of hay, he had lost a scary amount of weight.

He was put on more critical care, we were told to add some alfalfa hay to his diet, he was changed from metacam to Gabapentin to see if that would stop the runny stools, and he was given a low dose of furosemide twice a day to try to clear his lungs.

I was told to bring him back in a few days to see how the meds are working. We had a different vet this time (my regular vet was on vacation), and her response was much more doom and gloom and she kept bringing up putting him down--which I thought was strange, since he has still been alert, eating with excitement, and otherwise his normal self. She increased the furosemide to .15ml twice a day, but warned me it might only dehydrate him and make things worse. She told us to add some pedialyte to water and syringe it to him a few times a day to try to keep his electrolytes up. We also switched him back to metacam since the soft stools weren't any better without it, and he was not enjoying the Gabapentin (he was terribly drowsy and dizzy and kept stumbling on himself).

Well, up until yesterday, Spike LOOOOVED the critical care. I could put it in a bowl and he'd gobble it up. In fact, he'd thump because I could never make it fast enough. Yesterday, he decided he is plain old sick of it and will just sniff at the bowl and walk away. But he will come running for pellets, is eating lots of hay, and is drinking water, so I don't think it's an appetite thing. In fact, he comes running at mealtime, then looks at me when I put down the crit care. I don't understand why he doesn't like it all of a sudden? I'm so worried he is going to lose too much weight without it.

I guess I need to know if anyone else has had experience with buns with this condition? Any tips? Am I looking at only a few more days with him? Weeks? The vet made it sound like it could be any time. I am heartbroken. He has been my buddy for almost ten years and I can't imagine him not around.

Is there anything I can do (I tried syringe feeding and suck at it. I can't get him steady by myself) to get him to eat his crit care? How do I make sure he is not dehydrated on the furosemide? Is there any other treatment I should talk to my vet about or is all hope truly lost at this stage?

I just don't want him to suffer.

I am sorry to hear about Spike's problems. There are other medications that a Vet could prescribe to treat Heart Failure. These include Benazepril and Pimobendan. I have given the generic names as I think the brand names available in the USA (I suspect that you are in the USA ??) will be different to those available in the UK.

It is not really possible to say how long Spike can keep going for. It really depends on just how advanced his heart disease is and also if it has also effected his renal function. In my experience Rabbits with Heart Failure tend not to feel ill as such, they just become very tired. Weightloss is often a feature. Some Rabbits may go off dried food and prefer grass, fresh forage, fresh Veg.
 
This last month has been one of the most awful months ever. I'm sure anyone who has dealt with sick buns knows the feeling. Sorry if this is long, but I want to give every bit of info I have.

So, Spike is almost ten (as of October). We've known for years he has a heart murmur, but he's always been active and happy, so the vet never saw a reason to pursue further tests.

A month ago, Spike started having soft stools. Not diarrhea. Leaving cecoropes behind. It would only happen at a certain time of day, and the rest of the time, he was normal as could be (as were his poops). He has had a runny eye since October (which we were treating with a drop), but I was pretty sure this confirmed teeth issues. The only reason the vet didn't push the teeth problem is Spike has always been a good hay eater and the vet was concerned about putting him under anesthesia with a murmur at his age.

We tried removing all but hay from Spike's diet (except the vet gave us a bit of critical care for some nutrients). The soft stools never got better. He was put on metacam because the vet noticed he had some arthritis in his back paws, and she thought of his teeth hurt that might help for now.

We brought him back a week ago, because his breathing had gotten quite harsh over the last week. He would rock violently when resting, and would sometimes sit with his paws resting on his hay basket. We honestly thought it was the meds. Cause most of this started around the same time. We thought he was just having a bad reaction.

The vet did some awake X-rays, which revealed Spike's heart is quite enlarged. It is practically touching his sides, and is pushing on his lungs. The vet spotted some fluid on his lungs, too. To make matters worse, even though he had been consuming bags and bags of hay, he had lost a scary amount of weight.

He was put on more critical care, we were told to add some alfalfa hay to his diet, he was changed from metacam to Gabapentin to see if that would stop the runny stools, and he was given a low dose of furosemide twice a day to try to clear his lungs.

I was told to bring him back in a few days to see how the meds are working. We had a different vet this time (my regular vet was on vacation), and her response was much more doom and gloom and she kept bringing up putting him down--which I thought was strange, since he has still been alert, eating with excitement, and otherwise his normal self. She increased the furosemide to .15ml twice a day, but warned me it might only dehydrate him and make things worse. She told us to add some pedialyte to water and syringe it to him a few times a day to try to keep his electrolytes up. We also switched him back to metacam since the soft stools weren't any better without it, and he was not enjoying the Gabapentin (he was terribly drowsy and dizzy and kept stumbling on himself).

Well, up until yesterday, Spike LOOOOVED the critical care. I could put it in a bowl and he'd gobble it up. In fact, he'd thump because I could never make it fast enough. Yesterday, he decided he is plain old sick of it and will just sniff at the bowl and walk away. But he will come running for pellets, is eating lots of hay, and is drinking water, so I don't think it's an appetite thing. In fact, he comes running at mealtime, then looks at me when I put down the crit care. I don't understand why he doesn't like it all of a sudden? I'm so worried he is going to lose too much weight without it.

I guess I need to know if anyone else has had experience with buns with this condition? Any tips? Am I looking at only a few more days with him? Weeks? The vet made it sound like it could be any time. I am heartbroken. He has been my buddy for almost ten years and I can't imagine him not around.

Is there anything I can do (I tried syringe feeding and suck at it. I can't get him steady by myself) to get him to eat his crit care? How do I make sure he is not dehydrated on the furosemide? Is there any other treatment I should talk to my vet about or is all hope truly lost at this stage?

I just don't want him to suffer.

I'm so very sorry to hear of Spike's problems. You must be devastated as I would be :(

I am glad he's taking the furosemide. Can the vet also give him an ACE Inhibitor? They are excellent at controlling the symptoms of an enlarged heart and helping it to pump better.

I know someone on here who has experienced what you're going through recently, and if you would like me to pass on her details, please send me a PM

Thinking of you both xx
 
My Noah has congestive heart failure. I'm on my phone now but I will try and reply in more detail later. Noah is on lots of mess and there are more available for CHF
 
Thank you, everyone. Devastated doesn't even cover it. I mean, I knew at his age, I was just playing with time, but he has literally been so healthy up until this (he never had meds before this weekend--not in his entire 9.5 years), I guess I thought we still had lots more time. This took me by surprise at how fast it escalated.

My vet is going to call me later to see how he is doing, and I am going to bring up an ACE inhibitor. I have been reading about them, and maybe it would be helpful. I'm also going to ask if I can put greens back in his diet slowly (since she is more concerned he gain weight than about the loose stool at the moment). I know greens will also help hydrate him.
 
Sending vibes for you & Spike. I hope you get his medication reviewed ok. I think I would be comforted a little by Jane's words that he is more likely to feel tired than poorly x
 
Hi. I'm so sorry Spike is so poorly. We had a bunny Opera, she had a cough for a few years. Eventually we changed vets and she was offered a chest xray. She had a hugely enlarged heart with fluid around it. The pressure made her cough and her eyes bulge. She was treated successfully with Fortekor tablets for over 4 years. She lived to the age of 10. Sadly, it came time to leave for rainbow bridge. On Fortekor she was still able to come upstairs to go to bed, all on her own. Bless my sweet bunny. She passed with help when everything came too much for her. I miss her every day.
 
Sending vibes for you & Spike. I hope you get his medication reviewed ok. I think I would be comforted a little by Jane's words that he is more likely to feel tired than poorly x

Sadly heart failure can make you feel a lot more than tired :(
 
Thank you for your kind thoughts, everyone. I wish we weren't dealing with soft stools at the same time because I would be giving him everything I could to fatten him up. As his GI tract is already messed up, I have to introduce things slowly and see how it goes.
My vet is gong to get back to me Monday about an ACE inhibitor. She did say I could slowly try reintroducing greens soaked in water. I gave Spike a single piece of baby romaine soaked in water yesterday, and the soft stools were pretty bad this morning. :( But that could also be the pedialyte or the fact he's getting some pellets now. I don't know. The vet said fattening him up is more important that the soft stools right now, so I'm just letting him do his thing.

I have a question about critical care. He has decided he doesn't want it anymore (he used to thump because I couldn't make it fast enough), I've managed to get some into him through syringe, but not as much as I'd like. I did notice that he ate the dried up bits that fell out of the syringe later in the day. So I just experimented and let a bit of crit care dry, then formed it into little balls (like pellets) and he ate them. The package says to discard any unused mixture after 24 hours, but it doesn't say if it is okay for me to feed it to him a little dryer (this was an hour or two after initially making it). Anyone know if this is okay? My thoughts are just get it in him any way I can...
 
Thank you for your kind thoughts, everyone. I wish we weren't dealing with soft stools at the same time because I would be giving him everything I could to fatten him up. As his GI tract is already messed up, I have to introduce things slowly and see how it goes.
My vet is gong to get back to me Monday about an ACE inhibitor. She did say I could slowly try reintroducing greens soaked in water. I gave Spike a single piece of baby romaine soaked in water yesterday, and the soft stools were pretty bad this morning. :( But that could also be the pedialyte or the fact he's getting some pellets now. I don't know. The vet said fattening him up is more important that the soft stools right now, so I'm just letting him do his thing.

I have a question about critical care. He has decided he doesn't want it anymore (he used to thump because I couldn't make it fast enough), I've managed to get some into him through syringe, but not as much as I'd like. I did notice that he ate the dried up bits that fell out of the syringe later in the day. So I just experimented and let a bit of crit care dry, then formed it into little balls (like pellets) and he ate them. The package says to discard any unused mixture after 24 hours, but it doesn't say if it is okay for me to feed it to him a little dryer (this was an hour or two after initially making it). Anyone know if this is okay? My thoughts are just get it in him any way I can...

You know I think you should do what you can to get anything into him at this stage. I totally agree with your vet, that soft stools are the least of yours/his problems. I've had this with fattening up a rabbit who was critically ill ...

I think the critical care like that will be fine. You are just rehydrating and letting it dry as 'cake'.

Let me know if I can help any more :)
 
You know I think you should do what you can to get anything into him at this stage. I totally agree with your vet, that soft stools are the least of yours/his problems. I've had this with fattening up a rabbit who was critically ill ...

I think the critical care like that will be fine. You are just rehydrating and letting it dry as 'cake'.

Let me know if I can help any more :)

Thank you. One last question. Normally, Spike only goes through the soft stools once a day (like an hour or two in a 24 hour period. The rest of the time they are solid). He had that period around midnight last night. It's ten hours later, and I'm seeing soft poop coming from him again, but it's not as clustered as they usually are. It's like one or two. It looks almost like formed poop, but wet. I am concerned about diarrhea due to the pedialyte, but I've read true diarrhea is incredibly watery. Is this just leftover cecals, or is his poop a bit more watery looking because the furosemide purges water from his body?
 
Thank you. One last question. Normally, Spike only goes through the soft stools once a day (like an hour or two in a 24 hour period. The rest of the time they are solid). He had that period around midnight last night. It's ten hours later, and I'm seeing soft poop coming from him again, but it's not as clustered as they usually are. It's like one or two. It looks almost like formed poop, but wet. I am concerned about diarrhea due to the pedialyte, but I've read true diarrhea is incredibly watery. Is this just leftover cecals, or is his poop a bit more watery looking because the furosemide purges water from his body?

Yes, true diarrhoea is very watery as you say.

It could be as a result of the drugs, which have temporarily upset his digestive tract. Drinking a lot of water wouldn't necessary cause this as it would be pee'd out. A sensitive tummy can react like that to all sorts of things, but particularly certain veggies. You could try eliminating one or two and see whether the problem clears up?

There may be a few bits and pieces in the articles below that help make sense of it?

http://rabbit.org/intermittent-soft-cecotropes-in-rabbits/

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/drop/Drp_en.htm
 
Thank you. One last question. Normally, Spike only goes through the soft stools once a day (like an hour or two in a 24 hour period. The rest of the time they are solid). He had that period around midnight last night. It's ten hours later, and I'm seeing soft poop coming from him again, but it's not as clustered as they usually are. It's like one or two. It looks almost like formed poop, but wet. I am concerned about diarrhea due to the pedialyte, but I've read true diarrhea is incredibly watery. Is this just leftover cecals, or is his poop a bit more watery looking because the furosemide purges water from his body?

I am assuming that the 'soft stools' are unformed cecotrophs ? Or are they very soft fecal poos ? The possible causes of the former is likely to be different from the possible causes of the latter.

How is he within himself at the moment ?
 
They were definitely missed cecoropes (the pudding/gross smelling ones). Luckily, he did go back to the regular stools very soon after, but all day they have been very small. Spike is only sort of nibbling on his hay today (he is usually a big hay eater). It is seeming to take every ounce of energy he has to eat a single piece of hay. He looks so tired. I've managed to syringe some critical care into him throughout the day, but I feel awful for him. Tonight, I'm really wondering if I'm close to losing him...

:(
 
They were definitely missed cecoropes (the pudding/gross smelling ones). Luckily, he did go back to the regular stools very soon after, but all day they have been very small. Spike is only sort of nibbling on his hay today (he is usually a big hay eater). It is seeming to take every ounce of energy he has to eat a single piece of hay. He looks so tired. I've managed to syringe some critical care into him throughout the day, but I feel awful for him. Tonight, I'm really wondering if I'm close to losing him...

:(

I am sorry :cry: You are obviously doing your best to keep him as comfortable as possible. The loving care you are giving him is just as important as any drug a Vet could prescribe. Whatever the next few days may bring he will not be alone and he will take great comfort in having you, his friend of many years, by his side.
 
They were definitely missed cecoropes (the pudding/gross smelling ones). Luckily, he did go back to the regular stools very soon after, but all day they have been very small. Spike is only sort of nibbling on his hay today (he is usually a big hay eater). It is seeming to take every ounce of energy he has to eat a single piece of hay. He looks so tired. I've managed to syringe some critical care into him throughout the day, but I feel awful for him. Tonight, I'm really wondering if I'm close to losing him...

:(

I'm so very sorry to hear this :( So the vet hasn't considered any other therapy at this time? Poor you and it sounds like your little one is struggling right now.

I'm thinking of you xx
 
Thinking of you and Spike. I hope he has improved, you are doing all you can for him and I'm sure he knows this and takes comfort from you being there for him.
 
No advise I'm afraid just sending love xxx I know how worrying it is with a poorly bun xx lots of hugs, vibes and love to you both x
 
Thank you, everyone. I listened to the vet's directions and gave him an extra dose of furosemide (the bottle said on bad days he can have it every six hours), and I ran to the 24 drugstore and got some pedialyte. I syringe fed him some diluted pedialyte and his meds (and a tiny bit of critical care) and he perked up quite quickly and started eating some hay. He is a lot more alert today.

More than ever, he is refusing his critical care, to the point where he is spitting out what I put in his mouth. But he will come running for pellets and lettuce (I'm only up to two pieces of greens a day-we are slowly working them back in), so it's not his appetite. He is just sick of the stuff. That's typical Spike, actually. He'll get sick of something and refuse it for a while. I want to stop the crit care for a day or two and see if he goes back to it, but I'm so scared he won't get enough nutrition through the bits of hay and food he is getting. Vet is closed today, but I'm going to talk to her about it tomorrow.

Another member mentioned a little porridge oats to help him put on weight, so I'm going to try a bit of that later and see if he likes it. Fingers crossed!

Thank you for all your kind words. Last night was scary. I even said goodbye to him as I ran to the drugstore, just in case.
 
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