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Hello - Week 2 of Stasis (Long read sorry)

Cool, that is reassuring cheers!

Just want to bring him home soon. He's gone from grit poops to bigger semi soft ones now so I guess until they get it spot on he will be in there a while yet or at least during this week.. All the best until then!

Rich
 
Hi guys,

I wondered if you could help. This post is a bit of a refresher about Sid's options and what we can do for him:

So it's now Day 22 of his injury/stasis.

His hind leg pain by the look of it has gone, he has recovered either from an injury or is halfway through treatment for a differential diagnosis of e-cuniculi which has stopped the major problem of his leg.

Sid has been in and out of the vets since for dried poop and a seizure on the 5th. He was last readmitted to the vets after not pooping for 18 hours on the 17th.

Since he has been back, they have weaned him off meds slightly and added fibreplex into his meds along with cisapride. His stools are now a lot larger some days but at the same time they can be slightly soft/runny.

For me, each time he has gone back to the vets, I've reset the counter for recovery to 0. Knowing it can take a month for full recovery and even longer I'm prepared to wait for however long it takes him to get back to full health.

This is however where I've been a bit haunted by the vets today. They have done dental checks, xrays, Blood work, scans for bladder stones etc and there is nothing flagging up at all. Nothing. So, we presume it's a severe bout of stasis, right?

The vet said, he is welcome there as long as it takes to get his poops better, he is bright, he is alert, he is grooming, he is grooming me when I've there but he is still not pooping normally. They are hydrating him and fussing over him, he doesn't appear overly stressed, but his pooped have still not returned to normal. Will they, will he just regress again? The vet said the biggest fear was if some of his meds started to fail.. What do we do then? He will just get worse.

I've done the only thing I think of today, which is agree to treatment to continue as he appears comfortable and I get to see him 2 hours a night now, so that we can give him as long as he needs to try to get his poops regular and back to normal. However, question here is how has he gone from dry grit to big sloppy mess sometimes? It doesn't make sense.

We have started the process of referring him post visit to this vets... so that if his poops don't improve towards the later end of this week, we can get him sent to a gold RWAF accredited vet. (RVC or Scott Vet in Beds) Question I have to ask is, is there anything else I could be doing for him? We got him home last time when he was pooping small poops that were gritty in the hope they would improve, in the end he relapsed back and didn't poop for 18 hours. Each day in himself he appears to be stronger, he was digging me last night on my lap making it clear he's top bun, with a few teeth grinds of pain (twice over the visit, the first few times he was in there, it was every minute), he doesn't really appear to be in severe pain through gas or injury anymore & his tummy feels better everyday. But this is the 22nd day of meds, we can't have him dependent on them but at the same time, we can't risk him dropping off the wagon immediately he comes off them........ What to do? :|
 
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I feel for you, because I can appreciate that this whole episode with Siddi doesn't appear to be straightforward and of course all you want is for him to be fit and healthy again. Forgive me, but I can't remember if you've said, but previously before this happened, had Siddi had any previous illnesses?

It is not so easy for others to advise in a case like Siddi's, because you know what he is usually like and you can see him day by day and observe how his is.

Just some random thoughts.

I would be concerned by the tooth grinding, especially if he is still having Metacam.

Stasis is very often not the prime illness, but a consequence of something else. I'm thinking here of his leg and his seizure, both of which could be attributable to EC, for which he is having treatment.

Some rabbits are in fact on long term gut medication and there are indeed forum members with such rabbits.

Is he eating normal food now by himself?

I do think, if it were me, I would want a second opinion. I am aware that your current vets have done a range of different diagnostic tests, none of which have shown anything remarkable though. I would still like the reassurance of a second opinion though.
 
Sidditherabbit said:
Hi guys,

I wondered if you could help. This post is a bit of a refresher about Sid's options and what we can do for him:

So it's now Day 22 of his injury/stasis.

His hind leg pain by the look of it has gone, he has recovered either from an injury or is halfway through treatment for a differential diagnosis of e-cuniculi which has stopped the major problem of his leg.

Sid has been in and out of the vets since for dried poop and a seizure on the 5th. He was last readmitted to the vets after not pooping for 18 hours on the 17th.

Since he has been back, they have weaned him off meds slightly and added fibreplex into his meds along with cisapride. His stools are now a lot larger some days but at the same time they can be slightly soft/runny.

For me, each time he has gone back to the vets, I've reset the counter for recovery to 0. Knowing it can take a month for full recovery and even longer I'm prepared to wait for however long it takes him to get back to full health.

This is however where I've been a bit haunted by the vets today. They have done dental checks, xrays, Blood work, scans for bladder stones etc and there is nothing flagging up at all. Nothing. So, we presume it's a severe bout of stasis, right?

The vet said, he is welcome there as long as it takes to get his poops better, he is bright, he is alert, he is grooming, he is grooming me when I've there but he is still not pooping normally. They are hydrating him and fussing over him, he doesn't appear overly stressed, but his pooped have still not returned to normal. Will they, will he just regress again? The vet said the biggest fear was if some of his meds started to fail.. What do we do then? He will just get worse.

I've done the only thing I think of today, which is agree to treatment to continue as he appears comfortable and I get to see him 2 hours a night now, so that we can give him as long as he needs to try to get his poops regular and back to normal. However, question here is how has he gone from dry grit to big sloppy mess sometimes? It doesn't make sense.

We have started the process of referring him post visit to this vets... so that if his poops don't improve towards the later end of this week, we can get him sent to a gold RWAF accredited vet. (RVC or Scott Vet in Beds) Question I have to ask is, is there anything else I could be doing for him? We got him home last time when he was pooping small poops that were gritty in the hope they would improve, in the end he relapsed back and didn't poop for 18 hours. Each day in himself he appears to be stronger, he was digging me last night on my lap making it clear he's top bun, with a few teeth grinds of pain (twice over the visit, the first few times he was in there, it was every minute), he doesn't really appear to be in severe pain through gas or injury anymore & his tummy feels better everyday. But this is the 22nd day of meds, we can't have him dependent on them but at the same time, we can't risk him dropping off the wagon immediately he comes off them........ What to do? :|
Click to expand...

Sorry this will be a brief reply. Personally I'd ask for him to be referred now to be seen within the next couple of days (if possible). Your own Vet has been very thorough and tried for a long time to get to the bottom of Siddi's problem. I think now is the time for a fresh pair of eyes and Specialist knowledge.

Good luck x
 
Omi said:
I feel for you, because I can appreciate that this whole episode with Siddi doesn't appear to be straightforward and of course all you want is for him to be fit and healthy again. Forgive me, but I can't remember if you've said, but previously before this happened, had Siddi had any previous illnesses?

It is not so easy for others to advise in a case like Siddi's, because you know what he is usually like and you can see him day by day and observe how his is.

Just some random thoughts.

I would be concerned by the tooth grinding, especially if he is still having Metacam.

Stasis is very often not the prime illness, but a consequence of something else. I'm thinking here of his leg and his seizure, both of which could be attributable to EC, for which he is having treatment.

Some rabbits are in fact on long term gut medication and there are indeed forum members with such rabbits.

Is he eating normal food now by himself?

I do think, if it were me, I would want a second opinion. I am aware that your current vets have done a range of different diagnostic tests, none of which have shown anything remarkable though. I would still like the reassurance of a second opinion though.
Click to expand...


Omi has given you great advice. I can't really add to her knowledge or experience :)

I would certainly seek out another opinion. That's what I had to do with my bun .. Ultrasound and X-rays were also helpful in his case and I wonder whether a new pair of eyes might view things differently. I know I trust my specialist to the hilt and she is managing to get to the root of the issue.

Good luck. You have lots of patience and compassionate caring. Siddi is lucky to have you :)
 
Howdy.

Thanks Omi for responding & Jane & Max. I've tried to outline below:

Siddi has been a pretty stable bun to be fair, we have never changed his diet before and bar the odd couple of stomach upsets (1-2 runs bouts, he's done pretty well) over 7 years.

I agree about the teeth grinding, I keep putting it down to stress of being on a ward with dogs and cats as it's getting more and more rare I think it might be that hes just getting used to his surroundings, however - it is probably pain to some degree.

His glucose count at seizure was 23, it's now 8. The current vets are certain it was caused by that, which would make sense but it can all be linked to e-c.

He is still getting a small dosage of metacam once a day.

If he needs long time meds, that's fine. I can be there to do it, early morning, 6pm and late night if needed.

He is eating hay and some veg by himself, not a lot but one of the nights before his stasis came back, he really had a good feed. 2 tbl spoon of pellets, 4-5 dandelions, a lot of hay and a cauliflower leaf. He is only tiny, so for him it was a good amount.

You're right about a second opinion, we have instructed the vets to seek other one of the gold accredited vets, it's just the stress of worrying now because I was praying he would progress to the point this wouldn't be necessary and given all the tests and lack of obvious red flags, I was really hopeful there would be a way to help him without having to transport him to yet another vets and stress him out yet again until he settles there too.


However, short term pain hopefully for longer term gain in this instance as he will be in the best possible care.
 
It may be that Siddi could be treated as an out-patient, although if a long journey and several consultations are involved then probably not much to be gained.
 
Omi said:
It may be that Siddi could be treated as an out-patient, although if a long journey and several consultations are involved then probably not much to be gained.
Click to expand...

Yes, sometimes it is less stressful if the Rabbit is admitted. I hope that you will hear about the referral soon Rich xx
 
Thank you, we have contacted the RVC and now awaiting back.

Sid wasn't in great form last night, he was brilliant throughout the day apparently and the vets were loving him.. However last night when i got there, it looks like he had eaten too much by himself which wasn't CC and it was giving him real bother / gas. We worked on him for two hours giving him belly massages which he took, eventually he got up, groomed himself and carried on. I think he was in bad pain at one point though as he managed to pee on his hind legs the poor thing.

However, the morning update is that he has passed plenty of poops and is happy organising his cage as it gets cleaned each morning, he makes it his duty to organise it how he wants before having a morning nap. Bit of a rabbit of routine.

Sadly this feels a bit familiar to last week, he was at home and had food by himself, more than usual and got bad gas.. I think we need to be even slower with his transition back to eating by himself. It's all about patience. If each set back resets him to 0 on recovery, I've found cases where it's taken a month or longer for some buns to recover. We have months and months supply of CC for him at home and his life quality appears fine bar the episodes of gas. He's been running around the place, alert, busy grooming himself and me, pretty much just been himself all bar the stomach not being 100%... Urgh, fingers crossed.
 
Hey folks.

Siddi has been ok today. However, while he has returned to full size poops for the first time in 23 days, it's come with strain which has caused bleeding. They think it to be that anyway as it's fresh blood not ingested looking. Poor guy... He's going through it at the moment!
 
Sidditherabbit said:
Hey folks.

Siddi has been ok today. However, while he has returned to full size poops for the first time in 23 days, it's come with strain which has caused bleeding. They think it to be that anyway as it's fresh blood not ingested looking. Poor guy... He's going through it at the moment!
Click to expand...

Oh dear :cry: I am sorry to hear this. Hopefully there will be some news about the referral today x
 
Sidditherabbit said:
Hey folks.

Siddi has been ok today. However, while he has returned to full size poops for the first time in 23 days, it's come with strain which has caused bleeding. They think it to be that anyway as it's fresh blood not ingested looking. Poor guy... He's going through it at the moment!
Click to expand...


Sorry to hear this Rich. Poor fella :(

Hope the vet referral comes through soon ..
 
Hi Max,

Hope you're well.

So Sid's blood is a lot less today, there's any barely on his poops now, which is great news. Bar that, he has been bright, he's started eating by himself for 4 days straight now bar 15ML of CC throughout the day to help keep him up on fibre. His poops are the biggest they've been and his gut sounds are the best according to the vet they've been during his half the month at the vets, he's also showing off a bit in his cage, reorganising it without fail each day he's there when they put fresh stuff in and looking busy...

With regards to the specialist referral, they wouldn't see him until next Tuesday/Weds as apparently blood out the backside in Rabbits is not an emergency if he is acting normal. This massively peed me off, but it looks like they may well be correct. However, I have a friend stateside who's rabbit is cared for by a highly skilled small/exotics vet in Washington DC - we have had Sid's medical notes and history forwarded to them and they are now acting on a consultancy basis alongside his current vet. This is the best I feel I could do for him given there's a few days until next week and should anything happen, he has additional support/advice. Them being on USA time means at least from 1pm UK - 7pm UK they can consult with our vets and provide additional help up until 11pm at night for the night team at our vets.

I'm kinda happy with this, because the RVC referral centre is now in Camden by St Pancras station as opposed to nearby in Brookmans Park (Potters Bar) which is right next to the A1M and M25, driving into London at anytime other than late at night means over an hour in the car for him and I don't want to do that, likewise the Bedford vets would be a 35 minute drive but it's likely they'd treat him as an outpatient, meaning he would be really scared from the car journey, really scared by being at another vets and then really scared going back down the M1. At the moment, it's critical to keep stress at an absolute low, so we may well bring him home tonight (15 minute drive in darkness) to continue his care while the stateside vet and our vet take daily information from me.

Touchwood, he is on the mend. I pray so anyway, how are you? Is your bun all ok?

All the best
Rich
 
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I'm pleased that Siddi seems to be slowly improving. Has the tooth grinding stopped now as well?

What's the US vet's view on Siddi? Has he come up with anything different to consider regarding diagnosis or any different treatment?
 
Tooth grinding is minimal now, had it maybe 2 times last night between 9pm and 11:30pm , I think it is a gas related problem as opposed to a constant pain, however, that's only from seeing him 2 hours ish a day at the moment for the past week, so I can't be sure. We have mentioned it to the stateside vet. Biggest problem is there is nothing in Xrays/bloodwork to show what it could be.

The US view has been to alter a few of the med doses thus far, based on his xrays, ultrasound & blood work. I think they will be briefing our vet at some point today and we will see if there's anything else to add. Just hope this is enough for him to keep going, other than waiting out for the referral and seeing if they do an MRI to pinpoint anything else we could be looking at the stress of it all. He's a very (extremely) anxious bun outside of his domain.
 
Sidditherabbit said:
Hi Max,

Hope you're well.

So Sid's blood is a lot less today, there's any barely on his poops now, which is great news. Bar that, he has been bright, he's started eating by himself for 4 days straight now bar 15ML of CC throughout the day to help keep him up on fibre. His poops are the biggest they've been and his gut sounds are the best according to the vet they've been during his half the month at the vets, he's also showing off a bit in his cage, reorganising it without fail each day he's there when they put fresh stuff in and looking busy...

With regards to the specialist referral, they wouldn't see him until next Tuesday/Weds as apparently blood out the backside in Rabbits is not an emergency if he is acting normal. This massively peed me off, but it looks like they may well be correct. However, I have a friend stateside who's rabbit is cared for by a highly skilled small/exotics vet in Washington DC - we have had Sid's medical notes and history forwarded to them and they are now acting on a consultancy basis alongside his current vet. This is the best I feel I could do for him given there's a few days until next week and should anything happen, he has additional support/advice. Them being on USA time means at least from 1pm UK - 7pm UK they can consult with our vets and provide additional help up until 11pm at night for the night team at our vets.

I'm kinda happy with this, because the RVC referral centre is now in Camden by St Pancras station as opposed to nearby in Brookmans Park (Potters Bar) which is right next to the A1M and M25, driving into London at anytime other than late at night means over an hour in the car for him and I don't want to do that, likewise the Bedford vets would be a 35 minute drive but it's likely they'd treat him as an outpatient, meaning he would be really scared from the car journey, really scared by being at another vets and then really scared going back down the M1. At the moment, it's critical to keep stress at an absolute low, so we may well bring him home tonight (15 minute drive in darkness) to continue his care while the stateside vet and our vet take daily information from me.

Touchwood, he is on the mend. I pray so anyway, how are you? Is your bun all ok?

All the best
Rich
Click to expand...


Hi Rich

I thought when you mentioned RVC that is would be quite a jaunt for you all. Good thinking to get US vets on the case - is he still at Medivet?

Thanks for asking about my bun. Sadly his weight loss is getting worse and diagnostics point to an unpleasant outcome.
You're kind to think of us.

Topping up the vibes for young Sid xx
 
I'm so sorry about your bun max, I can only hope it turns around or at least settles so you get as long as possible together.

He is still at medivet, you know it's funny, I was still at university doing a masters when we got him in 2010, medivet had a panorama documentary showing them to be poor, but honestly I couldn't be more happy with the way they have been, they've been open and straight from the start with us and the fact they've been willing to bring on board rabbit specialists outside of the country is a credit to them to boost their knowledge and the treatment siddi can get. Appreciate it may help other rabbits that go to the branch too. Theyve exchanged a few emails, got sids records now and assisted our vet.

RVC would have been fine had it been the potters bar branch of it. The quickest way to get siddi to the RVC I think would be timing a fast train from St Albans to the minute to St Pancras. Even then, if he's terrified and it has loud peeps on it, I'm stuck...

We're off to get him shortly, the task tonight will be to settle him when he's home, if I see some big poops, a bit of eating and him sat comfortably, who knows I may even get some sleep tonight...

All the best and speak soon..

Rich
 
Hey dudes,

Sid came home last night. The blood in his poops has all but gone, looked like a bit of a sore bum which we will have to treat with a bit of gel every day just to keep it from rupturing again.

Interesting evening really, he had minimal teeth grinds and was very active but he now has some interesting postures (albeit not the pain, readjusting postures, it was more one constant) vets think he's trying to take pressure of his bum touching the floor for now as it's a bit raw.

Also, he had a bout in the middle of the night after a tea spoon of nuggets, kale, parsley and a lot of water where he sounded like he had 5 pints and a curry. It was really really loud, as in human loud from the other side of the room loud rumbling and gurgling. The strangest part of it was he was active and fine while it was going on bar towards the end when it quietened down where he lay down for a bit.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/150482612@N02/34901802665/in/dateposted-public/ - the noises had died down by this point but you can still see his stomach going

I know I'm paranoid but check out between 40-50 seconds - how is that comfortable for the bigman? I don't understand the logic in bringing him home if he's in serious pain, all further diagnostics can be carried out at the vet.. Perhaps, it's just his body getting used to life again and given his weight loss it's a lot more visible. Gurgling like you've had a monster dinner isn't normal though.

Worth also pointing out he drank 125ml from his bowl between 22:30 / 08:30 - peed loads and poopd loads, his poops look proper wet though, firm enough! Think it's all forward progress albeit v slow! On we go!

All the best
Rich
 
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