What Are You Injecting into my Rabbit ?

[Jeremy]

You're absolutely right, that isn't ridiculous, it's worrying.
You don't think it's important, to know whether your rabbit is drowsier than it was, due to a worsening of its condition, or a normal reaction to the type of analgesia it was given. It's VERY basic stuff.

If monitoring the rabbit's drowsiness was so important I would expect my vet to point out what to expect, or what to watch for. That is his job.

 

[marie_kubiak]

You're absolutely right, that isn't ridiculous, it's worrying.
You don't think it's important, to know whether your rabbit is drowsier than it was, due to a worsening of its condition, or a normal reaction to the type of analgesia it was given. It's VERY basic stuff.

Pharmacology really isn't 'very basic stuff', it's a massively complex topic, particularly in rabbits where there are few licensed drugs and very different responses with different conditions and situations. I think it is unfair to pressure owners into learning about all the possible medications their rabbit may be given. It is the responsibility of the vet to inform the owner of the relevant information that applies to their rabbit, for that particular problem, with the particular drug given. No-one should be made to feel guilty that they don't have in depth knowledge.
For the example you gave - whether drownsiness could be a side effect of a treatment given, or a worsening of a condition - the vet should mention common side effects. Not everyone wants to know that opioid agonist activity at kappa receptors can lead to wind down of central activity. Just 'this painkiller may make your bunny a little quiet or sleepy' is enough! If in doubt then I can't emphasise enough for owners to contact the vet if they are unsure about any aspect fo treatment.

 

[Tamsin]

I imagine RU owners are rather in the minority. Most rabbits owners may want to know the type of drug eg painkiller and, if it's not obvious, what issue it's treating or why it's being used.

I imagine some owners don't even feel the need to know that much. The vet may say, we're going to treat the injury with painkillers and ab's, but the owner won't know/ask which injection is which.

Most owners couldn't care less what brand it is though and certainly aren't going to demand alternatives. They rely on their vet, who is experienced and should receive latest info, to pick the appropriate one.

 

[LurcherGirl]

I imagine RU owners are rather in the minority. Most rabbits owners may want to know the type of drug eg painkiller and, if it's not obvious, what issue it's treating or why it's being used.

I imagine some owners don't even feel the need to know that much. The vet may say, we're going to treat the injury with painkillers and ab's, but the owner won't know/ask which injection is which.

Most owners couldn't care less what brand it is though and certainly aren't going to demand alternatives. They rely on their vet, who is experienced and should receive latest info, to pick the appropriate one.

Totally agree with that! I am fairly experienced in small animal care and dogs, and have a fair basic knowledge on how the most common drugs work and why etc. But I do not question my vet's every move, I trust him to make the best choice of drugs for my animals at the time! (After all, that's what I am paying him for). If I have any concerns (e.g. I have read something about a drug, I have past experience or know of someone who has, if a drug isn't working or an animal responds badly etc), then I discuss with him and then make an informed decision based on that.
If one of my animals goes on long term drugs, then yes, I go and research that particular drug and discuss any concerns if there are any. But for example, my vet has just prescribed one of my dogs an antibiotics (which I have never used before on any of my animals) for a nail bed infection... I couldn't tell you the brand name, I have no idea and I have no desire to do major research about it to find out why he chose that and not something else! I trust him that he has made the right choice!
Whereas I have done plenty of research on previcox when another of my dogs was put on that drug permanently... I felt the need to know what exactely it was, how it compares to other similar drugs, what the exact long term outlook is for the dog etc. The same applied when my spaniel was put on lifelong medication for hypothyroidism.

On the other hand again, I was on antibiotics and stomachlining medication last year after a pacreatitis attack... I couldn't tell you what brand name they were, and I don't particularly care! They did the trick and that's all that counts for me. If there was a problem with it then I'd have done my own research, but as it was, I didn't. But I did check out my permanent asthma medication... You see where I am going...

So no, I don't feel that everyone needs to know everything their vet prescribes in detail. And yes, I even know people that wouldn't understand the details even if they were explained as they just don't have the basic knowledge ... I know animals are not cars (please don't kill me for the analogy), but to drive a car, I don't need to be a car expert, I don't need to be a mechanic and electrician... I pay someone to do the service and repairs... It is similar with pets! Not everyone can be an expert, sometimes one just has to rely on the expertise of a professional! That doesn't make someone irresponsible though!
(How that expertise is applied by some vets is a totally different story and discussion).

In other words, if a drug is applied wrongly or not given at all, or not given in the right circumstances, it is ENTIRELY the vet's fault and responsibility - you just cannot expect a pet owner to take responsibility for the veterinary treatment that a vet gives! That simply wouldn't be fair.

Vera

 

[Mudgy]

Pharmacology really isn't 'very basic stuff', it's a massively complex topic, particularly in rabbits where there are few licensed drugs and very different responses with different conditions and situations. I think it is unfair to pressure owners into learning about all the possible medications their rabbit may be given. It is the responsibility of the vet to inform the owner of the relevant information that applies to their rabbit, for that particular problem, with the particular drug given. No-one should be made to feel guilty that they don't have in depth knowledge.
For the example you gave - whether drownsiness could be a side effect of a treatment given, or a worsening of a condition - the vet should mention common side effects. Not everyone wants to know that opioid agonist activity at kappa receptors can lead to wind down of central activity. Just 'this painkiller may make your bunny a little quiet or sleepy' is enough! If in doubt then I can't emphasise enough for owners to contact the vet if they are unsure about any aspect fo treatment.

The whole point of the OP, was that clients generally DON'T ask at the time of consultation, what has been administered to their rabbit, or contact their vet with concerns about ongoing treatment.

The huge volume of health/drug related posts on this forum are testament to that, and IMO, the consulting room is the place for it.

BTW, "this painkiller may make your bunny a little quiet or sleepy", may well be enough for my ten year old brother, but it wouldn't work for me.

 

[louise and Gus]

BTW, "this painkiller may make your bunny a little quiet or sleepy", may well be enough for my ten year old brother, but it wouldn't work for me.

That is a bit harsh isn't it? In most cases people don't really need to know, vets will explain any side effects and what follow up treatment is needed, it is their job to find the right drugs etc not the owners...

Just because you have a detailed interest in what drugs doesn't mean other people do, it doesn't make you a better owner?

 

[*Spider*]

My vets always tell me what they've had.

 

[Tamsin]

I'd rather the vets didn't spend 30 minutes expounding on the

opioid agonist activity at kappa receptors can lead to wind down of central activity

we already complain about the cost of vet fees. That would just bump up them up more!

Sure, if you ask then the vet should answer your questions but I don't think the default information needs to be that detailed. After all, anyone who wants to know can ask. Those that don't aren't going to retain all the information anyway so it would be a waste of vets and clients time.

 

[KarenM]

The vet always tells me what general type of injection/drug they're giving, but no brand names just 'painkiller' for example. If they didn't then I would ask for a general explanation but no great detail.

I think it's unfair and way off the mark to say that owners who don't ask exactly what is injected don't care. Maybe some people don't ask because they really don't care but for me it's more the fact that I trust my vet to give the right medications & I shouldn't need to question whether they have made the right choices. The exact same would apply to a non-furry family member (aka hoomins) - I would expect to be told what type of treatment they would be having if they were ill, but there is no need for a long explanation as it would go straight over the top of my head anyhow. It doesn't mean I don't care though.

 

[Jack's-Jane]

But often when asked 'did your Rabbit have a pain killer' the reply is 'I dont know, the Vet just gave my Rabbit a few injections'

I am not suggesting people should read and digest the Veterinary Drug Formularly but just to be aware of what type of drug is being used-eg Painkiller, gut motility med, antibiotic etc....etc

Seems no-one has read post 13 on this thread ^^^^^^^^^

I have never suggested people should know all the names of drugs
Neither have I suggested that if they dont they are 'bad owners'

 

[LurcherGirl]

Seems no-one has read post 13 on this thread ^^^^^^^^^

I have never suggested people should know all the names of drugs
Neither have I suggested that if they dont they are 'bad owners'

I know you haven't Jane, but other people have suggested that it is irresponsible and uncaring if people don't know exactely what medication the vet is using.

Vera

 

[KarenM]

Seems no-one has read post 13 on this thread ^^^^^^^^^

I have never suggested people should know all the names of drugs
Neither have I suggested that if they dont they are 'bad owners'

I read it. The thread has moved on from your original point though and it was Mudgy who said that we should know the names of all drugs and their side effects. I agree with your original point that we should know what type of medication they have been given.

 

[*Spider*]

I haven't read the thread but I think the problem is more that inexperienced rabbit owners are so flustered at the time they just put all their trust in their vet. I know I could.