Rabbit Shivering urgent help please

[Gemmapookie]

Mornin,
Yeh I know what you mean, when I nearly lost Timmy to stasis I drove myself nuts trying to figure out what caused it. The thing is nearly everyones buns have daily veg and most of them don't have problems. I think some might be abit more sensitive bellywise than others. Its hard because like you say the LOVE their veg and it does do them some good in the right quantities. I am abit more conservative with the veg now, and avoid things like carrot, cabbage and brocolli (except for the odd tiny bit as a rare treat) and dont give them any fruit except pineapple, but the truth is I have no idea what caused timmys stasis. He got it at the beginning of winter so I think the drop in temp might have instigated it for him. I'm being extra vigilant with him now the temps rising again. It can be caused by stress aswell, has there been any change in his circumstance recently? There is also a theory that some buns have some kind of a virus while they're young and the antibodies that fight this have some sort of adverse effect on their guts, making them abit stasis prone.
Hopefully you will find that this is a one off random event that he never has again, it does happen. I'm hoping thats the case wtih Timmy aswell (fingers, toes everything crossed!) Timmy did have a little flare-up the week after but I spotted the signs straight away, gave him some metacloperamide for a day and pain relief and he bounced back within an hour.
As he's been on those veg for a year and has been totally fine, I'd be inclined to reintroduce them again after his illness, but maybe in smaller quantities and maybe just one of the gassy kind every couple of days?? All buns are different, what seems to have worked for mine may be different to yours, so its a case of trying things out and seeing how he responds. Its great that he eats loads of hay and drinks lots.
Sorry I cant be much more help on this. I know how horrible it is having a million questions going through your mind. Try not to drive urself too mad! When he comes home he'll need a calm, collected, reassuring mum to look after him
I'll be waiting to hear the news xxx

 

[Carolinemm]

Hi, well Im back, without twitch, she checked him over whilst I was there, she said his tummy is broken up now as opposed to feeling like a hard lump. She wants to continue with fiberplex today, he was moving around as much as he could in the tiny vets cage, but she assurred me he was much more perky earlier this morning, he still looks a bit subdued but it is hard to tell in a small cage. I asked about the fluids, she seemed to think it unnecessary and would cause him more stress and his temperature is closer to normal today as it was last night, it was actually bit low yesterday morning. But I asked her to anyway, it is really hard to know what to do, she is the vet after all and surely if his tummy has responded and he is pooing, eating and drinking, maybe the fluids arent necessary. I feel guilty as I dont want to cause him any more stress. I have left him in for the day, as otherwise I would be worrying if I needed to get him back to a vets and I dont even have an indoor cage so hes better off warm for now I think. The pain relief was going to last 24 hours which will wear off at 6pm tonight so that also worries me. So Im just hoping all will be well then. As I said, its hard to explain as he was never really very ill, still strong and moving about but was obviously in pain. I think I need to find a rabbit vet and book him in and pick him up later whatever the situation.

 

[Carolinemm]

Right, hes booked in with the specialist vet in Tarporley, Im so relieved. Even if they tell me my current vet did everything they could and hes fine now, itll be worth it for peace of mind. Not until ten past 4 though...just a few hours to wait now.

 

[BobbleG]

Just taking him to a specialist will make you feel SO much better and more confident about the care he's getting.
When Bob got very sick the first time and was rushed to our vets' emergency vets, the next day they admitted that they "could do no more for him" which as you can imagine was pretty horrific.
We googled Exotics specialists in the whole of the South East (if he could have stood the journey we'd have taken him to Timbuktu!)

As soon as we got him to see a well reputed vet, even though I was still balling my eyes out :roll: when I left there, at least I knew we'd done everything we possibly could. And he's survived 2 really serious bouts of stasis since - because of the new god-like vet and because we've learnt so much since.

You've been brilliant though and so obviously adore Twitch. I totally know where you're coming from.

 

[Gemmapookie]

Glad to hear hes doing well
Personally as hes eating and drinking, Im inclined to agree with the vet that it might cause him unnecessry stress. So glad that you've got him to see a specialist. Even though he sounds like he's on the mend now it will do wonders for your peace of mind. Then you can get him home, back in his own environment where he'll be happiest.
Let us know what the specialist says as (as you know) I too am intrigued!
xxx

 

[BobbleG]

Oh yes, forgot to mention that our vet always said "all I'm looking for, all we want is some poop. I don't care what colour, what size or what consistency, I just want to see some poop"!!!

Clearly this is a good sign.

 

[rabbitapril]

i am glad for your sake and his that you are going to another vet with more experience of rabbits. You are on a huge learning curve at the moment, and will be more knowlegable if it happens again ( though i sincerly hope it dosent !)
So many people think rabbits are easy to look after, but it can be a real struggle at times to keep them alive. Some people just find thier rabbits dead and presume it had just come to the end of its life, then there are the folks who care and learn like you are to help our bunnies when they need us.

Sorry i am "rabbitn on" when you are still missing your bunny, i will be so glad to hear when he is home with you.

 

[Carolinemm]

Hello hello!.... what can I say...my little boy is back!!! I thought I best collect him as the other vets were going to call for a history Although a very lovely vet nurse spoke to me as I collected him (one who has lots of rabbits herself) in order to reassure me of his condition, Im still flipping taking him for a final (hopefully) check up with the specialist vet. You may detect my ecstatic tone (!!!!) that is because he is munching grass (wasnt eating hay obviously so tried next safe thing), and drinking his lovely tepid in a bowl water! but also drinking loads from his water bottle too. He is active, bright, alert and no doubt thoroughly fed up with me!
I have shut them both into their hutch just now so that I can get him with minimal stress later, along with of course lots of hay, a snuggle safe and some toys from their run. The nurse did suggest that I should separate them to see exactly whats going on - as your message bobbleg, see if he is still pooing! and eating and drinking but I know about those two things. Thankfully as Star is a dwarf and twitch quite a bit bigger, still fairly diddy though, they do have different sized poos! so I shall investigate later.
To reply to rabbitapril, I heard a woman at work the other day say her daughters rabbit had just collapsed and then had to be put down, it made me so sad as I am certain it must have detriorated slowly - she talked about him blowing up, so I cant imagine what pain the poor thing must have been in . But shes a lovely lady and got him from the local rescue place....it is sad, we on here see them as our babies, and other people, its just a rabbit...god forbid.
Right now I am finally well and truely relaxed as I know I can at this stage do absolutley no more and he seems happy and himself again I am so so relieved. You are all the absolute best, I couldnt have settled my mind or sorted him properly without your advice I will provide a hopefully final update later, thank you so much for everyones responses

 

[helgalush]

Hi, I havent posted on your thread because I didnt have much advice as I am not very experienced on these things, but I have been reading all your updates and now just want to say that I am pleased that he is doing so much better! Hope it continues and hope the next vet can completely put your mind at rest.

Helen x

 

[Carolinemm]

Thank you Helen. It is a relief. I guess not completely out the woods, I know he is still under his pain relief, but hopefully Ill know more later xx

 

[Carolinemm]

Just done a poo check - definately no twitch poo Loads of star poo...thank goodness he is going somewhere proper in a few hours, I dont believe they knew at the last vets if he had pooed at all. They did say there were some larger poos but honestly dont believe them now! At least he still seems happy, and he will be seen to before any pain relief wears off...poor sausage.

 

[BobbleG]

They will take a long time to come through. The ones the vet has seen will most probably be ones from his last proper meal most probably. More will start to come through as he eats more so don't panic.

 

[Carolinemm]

Thank you!! You have made me happy again! xx
PS hes having a good old groom now... dirty mummy and dirty vets, thats what he's saying! I can watch him constantly a few metres from my window whilst working on laptop inside

 

[parsnipbun]

So pleased that he is so much brighter and back home with you!

depending what it actually was (bloat, impaction of food or stasis, or stasis which then resulted in a bloat or impaction of food which then resulted in . . etv etc - pick any combination!!) there could be many causes.

For stasis (which would then result in gas) take your pick from pain somewhere (anywhere!), teeth, fright (any chance a fox or dog wandered past the hutch last night?), for impaction - could he be moulting and for some reason forgot to drink a lot and the fur all formed a mass? - usually fur passes through fine but if there is already a hint of dryness or stasis it will get stuck, bloat is really a gassy thing but is often secondary.

At this time of year a sudden input of fresh cow parsley or lush new grass can trigger bloat (bit early for that!), others blame chemicals if you get the veg from a supermarket they all have chemicals on them or in the bag they come in.

Try sticking to older rough grass, dead nettles, brambles, hay etc for a few days.

Suspect new vet may give some more medicine for gut motility if stasis the problem (or for gut relaxation if bloat!).

I am having a LOT of experience of stasis (and associated bloat) right now as one of my buns has kidney stones and when it is hurting him he stops eating . . . . did it this morning again . . we wade in immediately equipped with painkiller, gut motility, anti-ulcer agent and subcut fluids, (usually followed by a gut relaxant and a gas buster a few hours later when he has pigged himself when the pain goes and ends up with indigestion :roll::roll.

Good luck with new vet!!!

 

[parsnipbun]

Just done a poo check - definately no twitch poo Loads of star poo...thank goodness he is going somewhere proper in a few hours, I dont believe they knew at the last vets if he had pooed at all. They did say there were some larger poos but honestly dont believe them now! At least he still seems happy, and he will be seen to before any pain relief wears off...poor sausage.

At a vets where they do not see a lot of rabbits they often cannot tell one poo from another - his first poos through will perhaps be very small and mis-shappen and sometimes a bit slimy (but not in bundles like caecotrophs). Sometimes smelly.

Also I have found that inexperienced vet nurses cannot tell the difference between a rabbit who is biting through hay and straw pieces because they are annoyed/in pain but not actually eating any of the pieces, and actual eating. They just see the bun has hay in its mouth and assume its eating. One to watch out for!

 

[bunny babe]

I'm gad he is feeling lot better now, fingers crossed he will continue to improve. Only for your persisting with the vet and getting advice on here has probably got him through this. Well done.

 

[Carolinemm]

Hello!! New vet was fab (very tactful also, would not say other vet did anything wrong as such) but despite the, as you say parsnipbun, mis-shapen poos, (he had started pooing before I took him which was a relief also) she said she still couldnt hear much motility going on so he has now had 2 types of gut motility drugs (front annd back intestine I think) and I have just successfully syringe fed him critical care feed and meloxivet for his pain relief I may have covered myself head to toe in the critical care food but he definitely got his quota!
It is such a relief I know I keep saying but I cannot thank everyone enough. Also means now I am equiped, as you have said, to deal with it myself if I see any signs again.
We actually moved house 6 weeks ago and since, although I have 2 cats myself who arent the slightest bit interested in the rabbits, there are some big cats around who are, and I did even see a fox in the garden on about day 1!! all a bit terrifying for me, nevermind them! perhaps, it really has been stress? they seem to know the cats cant get to them but perhaps the fox was brave enough to come closer? and that was a bit too much...
Thank you all again

 

[bunny babe]

I'm glad he is better and you found the new vet OK (they will never comment on anyone else :lol. I think this vet use Chester Gates in emergency situations which is where my vet is based - he is good too.

Have sent you a PM about lunch meeting we are having in Cheshire with some people off here if you fancy joining us.

 

[parsnipbun]

Well done!!! Yes vets do have to be 'tactful'. Have never known one actually admit that what another did was wrong . . (actually i do know one example:shock.

Critical Care is a bit of a 'share it around' sort of thing:lol::lol:

Do be extra careful to only syringe when he is swallowing - and don't be tempted to tip him up or anything - make extra sure he doesn't inhale any.

Re Foxes: a fox can scare a rabbit to death just by leaving its scent around. They are literally petrified of them - and this may well be what caused the shivering (which is not a 'normal' symptom of stasis). It will definitely send a bun into stasis.

Any chance of placing their hutches inside large enclosed aviary style runs so that the fixes cannot get anywhere near them? I had to do this after a similar experience. I now have 'walk in' aviaries of 9ft by 12ft by 6ft high with the hutches inside them..

Well done for finding the rabbit savvy vet!

 

[louise and Gus]

I am so glad this vet was better

And well done on taking your bun to a better vet, it takes courage to stand up to a vet, but can mean the difference between life and death!

I hope you see improvement soon