• Forum/Server Upgrade If you are reading this you have made it to the upgraded forum. Posts made on the old forum after 26th October 2023 have not been transfered. Everything else should be here. If you find any issues please let us know.
  • Please Note - Medical Advice

    Please keep in mind that posts on this forum are from members of the public sharing personal opinions. It is not a replacement for qualified medical advice from a veterinarian. Many illnesses share similar symptoms but require different treatments. A medical exam is necessary for an accurate diagnosis, without which appropriate treatment cannot be given.

    You should always consult your vet before following any suggestions for medication or treatment you have read about. The wrong treatment could make your rabbit worse or mean your vet is unable to give the correct treatment because of drug interactions. Even non prescription drugs can do harm if given inappropriately.

    We are very grateful to members who take time to answer other members questions, but please do be clear in your replies that you are sharing personal experience and not giving instructions on what must be done.

    Urgent Medical Advice: If you need, or think you might need, urgent medical advice you should contact a vet. If it is out of working hours phone your vet's normal number and there should be an answer phone message with instructions on what to do.

Poorly Freja :-(

It is good she wants to eat even though she stops after a few bites of food. I hope her sore mouth will continue to improve in the coming days.
I liked how she tossed the plastic scoop across the room!
 
After a promising start yesterday, by last night she had gone backwards a bit, almost no output and struggling to eat again, so I resorted to trying to syringe feed again. Amazingly, once hubby had got the hang of not panicking every time she moved (to be fair when she gets going it escalates rapidly and hurts a lot) and I realised she did actually want the food, she took to it really well and took a good amount, so much so that I had to quickly mix more up. She's a cheeky minx, if I didn't recharge the syringe quickly enough she took a bit at hubby's arm so I had to be quick!
This morning was better, a few poos, and she is really mischievous in herself, she's throwing everything round the room in a strop and juming up on the bins to be up high because I won't let her out. She did take a couple of leaves of dried plantain earlier when we put it down for Odin, but she's not taking any food from us, raspberries included, though she chins quite a lot of it (we've worked out that she chins when she wants something but can't cope with eating it, or when she's had enough and is indicating she's done with the syringe).
Tried again this afternoon and she took a lot, tried just now and she refused entirely but she did have a lot earlier so maybe just needs more time.
She is definitely peeing as there's been 2 puddles on the floor, clear ones too, so that's a relief to know for sure.
She is still being an absolute star for her injections, very glad I asked for that option and not an oral version. Metacam she will take when being fed but won't take by herself when offered.
So mixed feelings, she's really bright and happy, she's peeing, and she WANTS food, she just can't take it normally. The feeding syringe bypasses the sore tongue I think, she wants it deep down her right side, which makes sense when her left side is sore. It also needs to be thin enough that she can just swallow and not have to move it around in her mouth much at all.
 
Poor girl, The sore area appears to be taking its time to heal. I really hope she will start to eat a lot more for herself soon. Can you access any fresh grass to offer her ? Have you actually seen her eat her cecotrophs ?
 
I am sorry she gave you a scare yet relieved she took syringe feed and has pee and poo. Well done to your hubby for holding her steady so you could give her needed syringe feeds.
Sending vibes her sore soon heals soon so she can eat like she wants.
 
I'm at a loss right now - she still won't eat, all I've seen her take today was about half a cm of dandelion stalk after I annoyed her so much brushing it over her nose. She won't try the cow parsely though she's clearly interested. Won't take any fruit. We think she has the odd nibble of readigrass or hay but I' not sure - we see her grinding her teeth in the vicinity but never know for sure she's eaten something. It's not pain grinding, it's eating grinding and licking her mouth.
Did take 100ml of food or thereabouts, but it wasn't easy. We're trying to get that into her 3 times a day.
We had 8 poos last night but none Ive seen yet today, maybe one. She is consuming caecals and has done throughout though.
She's feisty as anything, very active, not at all subdued. She just won't eat. She is desperate to be outside but I daren't let her out when I can't tell what she's done and when I have no incentive for her to come back - we might let her in the garden but ran out of light today by the time we'd done everything and everyone else, I need to be able to watch her the whole time.
Obviously we'll be back at the vets tomorrow but what can I ask them to look for other than taking bloods? It's just really weird. I will ask for them to top up her fluids though.
I'm going to cut some grass but will wait til evening as that's generally the time they eat the most anyway and expect to be fed.
 
I would definitely want a full blood profile and also consider skull, abdominal and chest X-rays.
Skull - to assess tooth roots and check for any evidence of tooth root elongation/abscesses. Or any evidence of a jaw fracture. Could she have fallen from a height, bitten her tongue and sustained a fractured jaw.

Chest - enlarged heart ? Some cardiac cases can initially present as episodes of anorexia/gut stasis. Giants have a predisposition for cardiomegaly.

Abdomen - any evidence of masses/impactions anywhere within the GI tract/abdomen in general.
 
She's just enjoyed 100ml if not more of liquidised greens - kale, broccoli, herbs, cow parsley, dandelions and some apple and fennel with banana puree to loosen it a bit (and because the banana based things seem to be the one consistent ingredient she is keen on). I don't think she likes the liquidised pellets or the recovery food, but my vet did say she might not because they're quite rough. Puree and liquidised fresh food is smoother for her.
If she had a blockage/was in proper stasis would she not be more miserable? She is really active and into everything, and when she does poo they are a good size, just not enough - my interpretation is that she just hasn't had enough roughage to create more, and mostly she's been making caecals that she's been consuming. I just keep wondering if she could be blocked but not show it at all. It doesn't seem to fit with her overall improvement in herself.
It's not impossible that she's fallen but it's extremely unlikely, knowing her daily routine and where she had access to. Certainly nowhere of any height.
Cardiomegaly - again would they not have heard some evidence of this when she was being monitored and examined before?
I'm keen to have her weighed again because although she is obviously slightly more bony, she's not obviously dropping weight. I'd have thought with the little she's been eating it would be more obvious - I know Odin's weight loss was really clear to see.
Will try her again with the greens later. I did see that she'd moved a kale leaf around and the cow parsely I put in had moved around so she has possibly been nibbling by herself too. I do also wonder if the stress of everything is stopping her eating, she would be more like that, but then I wouldn't expect her to cooperate as well as she is when we are syringe feeding.
 
Well, just after I rang the vets at 9:30 to be sure they didn't want to see her before tomorrow to give fluids, she decided to start eating - not a lot, but bits of hay, dried plantain, cow parsley, little bit of cavallo nero, 3 bits of dill. Not enough for me to be happy so we did another 100ml of liquidised greens which she took fairly happily. Her chin is also healing up from being completely bald and pink, now there's just a little bit either side that's not got fur and it's not wet when I feed her.
At the vets first thing but fingers crossed we're starting to get to the other side, this is the most she's eaten since it started.
 
Ok, so vets this morning, still have gut sounds but quiet. She's ever more fiesty, had to rugby tackle her to catch her this morning which is more like the Freja I know and love!! Still very little output overnight. Bloods taken, got more emeprid and added ranitidine. Waiting on bloods to decide on further action.
She is enjoying her syringe feeds now that I've started just liquidising her normal herbs and veg, essentially a kale smoothie (is she the only creature on the planet who likes a kale smoothie?!) and given that she is tolerating them really well and is keen to eat we're trying to do that more frequently to boost her fluids and fibre intake. Probably not enough fibre but I'll try adding some of the recovery food/ground pellets again slowly and see if she will stay happy.
He did say the wound was more of a laceration than an ulcer, and quite a bad laceration, so who knows how she did it. She is trying to eat by herself it's just really slow progress.
She's lost another 600g since Friday :-( but that's not surprising really with the amount of food she's taken. She won't take more than 100-150ml at a time, so I can only increase by trying to increase frequency of feeding if she'll tolerate it. We still have to catch her and restrain her before she'll feed, she won't take it on the ground.
 
Did you mention the possibility of a jaw fracture to the Vet ? It’s something I would definitely want the Vet to consider. Cardiomegaly cannot always be detected just from listening to the heart. An impacted cecum can mean some fecal poo continues to be produced. Symptoms of cecal impaction can mimic dental problems in the early stages. The condition is slow onset and frequently misdiagnosed if the Vet isn’t very Rabbit Savvy. But given that she has a known significant thus far unexplained oral lesion personally I would put a jaw injury at the top of my list of possible causes of her current persistent anorexia.
 
Yes, but given that the bloods will come back in the early hours of the morning and she's only just had an anaesthetic we wanted to wait for them to come back first.
She's been doing better and better through today, happily taking increasing amounts of food each time so she's had a total of 5-600ml of smoothie, we've had some small poos, and she's eating bits and bobs more frequently on her own. She took 4 stalks of parsley from my husband earlier and ate all of them.
Will see what the bloods say, and how she does overnight.
ETA she is definitely consuming caecals, I've not seen her today but have seen her frequently in the past few days.
 
Yes, but given that the bloods will come back in the early hours of the morning and she's only just had an anaesthetic we wanted to wait for them to come back first.
She's been doing better and better through today, happily taking increasing amounts of food each time so she's had a total of 5-600ml of smoothie, we've had some small poos, and she's eating bits and bobs more frequently on her own. She took 4 stalks of parsley from my husband earlier and ate all of them.
Will see what the bloods say, and how she does overnight.
ETA she is definitely consuming caecals, I've not seen her today but have seen her frequently in the past few days.
Hence my *guess* that a jaw injury could be the issue.
 
Sending more vibes for your girl. With her size and activity level it must be difficult to syringe enough food. It is good the smoothies are being accepted.
 
Well, it's been an intense time hence no updates, we kept her going over 4 days of closures over new year with fluids, gut meds, pain meds and syringe feeds. She seemed to gradually improve, taking 260ml of feed 4 times a day and she was comfortably out of stasis, but her inclination to eat by herself deteriorated to nothing. The last 2 days before they reopened there was a distinct change in her, she starting getting really aggressive towards the syringe at the end of feeds wanting to bite at it and then spending hours vigourously overgrooming her bib. I offered her thick twigs after each meal and she destroyed with her incisors as if she were a beaver, but none of it stayed in her mouth. I thought maybe after 2 weeks of not chewing her teeth had grown too much and she was now struggling to eat as a result, hence wanting to chew but not being able to grind it.
Got her back in for a dental on Thursday, earliest they could do (they only opened on Wednesday and were inundated), and I fully expected her to just have her teeth ground, wake up, maybe syringe to get her going and she'd be good.
When they went in her teeth were fine, but she had new sores on the roof of her mouth and new abrasions on the other side of her tongue too, with her tongue still being very swollen. In cleaning the bits of food from her morning syringe feed from the back of her mouth, my vet went to move a small particle - and I mean tiny, as it looked like recovery food - but it didn't move. He switched to finer forceps and went again - only to pull out an INCH of very fine wire from inside her tongue!!

So the poor girl must have had it right inside her tongue the whole time, but it's slowly worked it's way out enough to be seen. Even if we'd x-rayed the first time it is unlikely to have shown up well enough, let alone had a chance of finding it right inside her tongue. It's very flexible but incredibly sharp, so there was just no way without slicing her tongue repeatedly to try and find it.
The wire had caused her tongue to swell, causing the laceration with normal teeth. As she improved with swallowing it must have just started pushing through, enough to then start irritating the roof of her mouth.

Since then, she had a rough night that night and was clearly in pain again, struggling to swallow the syringe feeds but then by midday the next day she just started eating, and hasn't looked back. It's slow progress - she's still got the abrasions to heal, and an infection in the tongue - but she is steadily nibbling away, initially soft leafy stuff but today she took a fibrestick and a loop treat, though they are still clearly quite uncomfortable to consume.

We're still giving some syringe feeds to keep her gut happy until her volume increases enough, and she's got over a kg of weight to gain back, but she's on the mend.

As to how the wire got there - who knows. It doesn't fit anything in her environment, but it could simply have been in their forage or hay. It's been damned bad luck, and damned good luck that it was found how it was.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3407 2.jpeg
    IMG_3407 2.jpeg
    164.3 KB · Views: 4
Good lord! 😨
Very lucky bunny, Freja, that this was found at last. Poor thing, and I can imagine the relief for both of you right now. I hope she continues to go from strength to strength.

I've found some damned weird things in hay. But glad I got to them before my rabbits did. So happy to see that everything seems to be getting better now. 🥰👍
 
Poor Freja. I am so glad your vet took the time to remove the tiny piece that turned out to be that blasted piece of wire. Well done getting her seen by the vet again.
Sending vibes her infection soon clears and she will soon be able to eat normally and regain the weight.
 
Back
Top