Thanks. The plan was to shove them in a carrier and then go for a car ride with Leanne riding shotgun just in case! Then if that goes well I was going to put them up on the top patio in a smallish run and then into an indoor pen overnight, But I wonder if I'd be better to put them straight into the small indoor pen after the car ride to save moving them around too much. Remembering Tim and nia's initial reaction in the pen it might be better to confine them to a small cage, as that advice from Jill worked with them. The nero cage is only 4x2... is that too small for a bonding situation?